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Old 10-17-2010, 06:21 PM   #1
ubica_stara
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Default Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....


Hey guys, so yesterday I played a CW against a wisp + sven lane.
Early game they weren't so dangerous, but later on, they were everywhere on the map, killing our heroes, preventing them from farming and pushing.
We even pushed together (whole team), but still, we initiate on these 3 heroes, and all of the sudden, sven and wisp are behind us with super high ms & as, high dmg sven (mom, bkb, treads) and they start rapin' every single one of us.
I've noticed that eventhough they were much more powerful then we were, they had very small pushing power.
So, I'm asking you guys. How to counter these two guys? (heroes and items)
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:26 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

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Originally Posted by ubica_stara View Post
Hey guys, so yesterday I played a CW against a wisp + sven lane.
Early game they weren't so dangerous, but later on, they were everywhere on the map, killing our heroes, preventing them from farming and pushing.
We even pushed together (whole team), but still, we initiate on these 3 heroes, and all of the sudden, sven and wisp are behind us with super high ms & as, high dmg sven (mom, bkb, treads) and they start rapin' every single one of us.
I've noticed that eventhough they were much more powerful then we were, they had very small pushing power.
So, I'm asking you guys. How to counter these two guys? (heroes and items)
Burst nuke wisp when/if sven uses bkb (link breaks and they lose tether ms)
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Force Staff maybe, any heavy nuker, maybe windrunner. Basically how you would counter any wisp.
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Right-click the wisp, it dies.

Oh and your captain forgot to ban wisp btw.
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Wisp is ban or fp.

Other than that, heroes with good escape methods can survive the ganks, like QoP. Also, win the ward war versus enemy team and they can't just randomly gank you wherever you are.
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

There's no way to beat them after they turn 6 AFAIK. They will just permagank you as soon as Io's ultimate is off cd (which, thankfully, was nerfed in this version), and are generally a killer duo otherwise.
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Wisp is imba.

To counter SVEN you can always get blademail / ursa / faceless void / naga siren (use mirror image to counter the stun LOL) .
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Don't suggest ban or pick/repick please. This doesn't counter them in the proper sense.

I would suggest pick Silencer and pit him against their lane. Harass the hell out of Sven with constant CotS and orbwalk. If you're not successful in shutting down his lane you might still try ulti right before ganks start.
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

1.buy dagon
2.click on io
3.???
4.profit
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:29 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Ghost scepter to counter sven..

And yeah, io is really squishy. So focus him when you have the opportunity.
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadblast View Post
Don't suggest ban or pick/repick please. This doesn't counter them in the proper sense.

I would suggest pick Silencer and pit him against their lane. Harass the hell out of Sven with constant CotS and orbwalk. If you're not successful in shutting down his lane you might still try ulti right before ganks start.
Sven laughs at CotS as he has Warcry.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Phantom Assassin. Farm her up until late game. Grab a Blademail. Go fight Sven + Wisp. Activate Blademail. Win.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:34 PM   #13
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

gank them and you'll be fine.

OT, dont be alone
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

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Originally Posted by FightF4te View Post
Phantom Assassin. Farm her up until late game. Grab a Blademail. Go fight Sven + Wisp. Activate Blademail. Win.
Sven has BKB and rapes you with your blademail on. You die.

A carry sven deals more DPS than a carry mortred, but has somewhat lower survivability and much lower mobility. It's just stupid to suggest a hero who can't even 1v1 the sven, much less both of them, nor escape the ganks. And then you suggest an item which is 100% countered by the most commonly used item on sven.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollypatrolly
Sven has BKB and rapes you with your blademail on. You die.

A carry sven deals more DPS than a carry mortred, but has somewhat lower survivability and much lower mobility. It's just stupid to suggest a hero who can't even 1v1 the sven, much less both of them, nor escape the ganks. And then you suggest an item which is 100% countered by the most commonly used item on sven.
A good Phantom Assassin would have BKB too. Countering Sven's stun. It's complicated.

If PA has the lifesteal from HoD or Satanic and procs that critical. GG.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollypatrolly View Post
Sven laughs at CotS as he has Warcry.
can we say, useless Sven with empty mana pool in a dime? sure Warcry has low manacost, but can't say the same about his other spells, can you.

also, what about Wisp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FightF4te View Post
A good Phantom Assassin would have BKB too. Countering Sven's stun. It's complicated.

If PA has the lifesteal from HoD or Satanic and procs that critical. GG.
not to mention Blur evasion, haha.
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Last edited by Leadblast; 10-17-2010 at 11:14 PM.
Old 10-17-2010, 11:02 PM   #17
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

a good pair of hands
a dagguer
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Quote:
Originally Posted by FightF4te View Post
A good Phantom Assassin would have BKB too. Countering Sven's stun. It's complicated.

If PA has the lifesteal from HoD or Satanic and procs that critical. GG.
Sven can have that satanic as well. With equally expensive item builds, sven just simply out-DPSes mortred, but that's not even the situation we're discussing. OP was trying to find some way of countering a gank by sven + wisp, and there's no single hero who can turn that fight around and win it. A mortred simply can't kill an equally equipped sven during her 10 seconds of BKB, it is not possible at all. She can at most survive by blinking stuff.

No, a few crits is just not enough, you'd need an abnormally large number of crits (e.g. be very lucky, but that can just as easily backfire by getting no crits at all) to match sven's damage.

The problem here being that it may be 2v1. It's better to just suggest some assist from allies.
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:35 AM   #19
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadblast View Post
Don't suggest ban or pick/repick please. This doesn't counter them in the proper sense.

I would suggest pick Silencer and pit him against their lane. Harass the hell out of Sven with constant CotS and orbwalk. If you're not successful in shutting down his lane you might still try ulti right before ganks start.
If I have an item that gives +1500 stats for 53g

And you have an item that gives +1 stats for 53g

How do you counter me without using my item?




Simplified form: You can't effectively counter imbalance, that is the defn of imbalance.
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:06 AM   #20
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
Simplified form: You can't effectively counter imbalance, that is the defn of imbalance.
Whereas Wisp is far from being imbalanced, regardless of how good the combination might sound. His laning abilites are just horrible – low hp, below average range, ridiculous base dmg. A single stun stops him from chasing you, forcing his tethered mate to either stop or break the tether.

Furthermore Sven is a horrible carry compared to Drow, Sf or Morphling. Those guys won't encounter any problems dealing with Sven in a late game clash, given that they know how to farm and right-click.

One of those countless "Wisp + X" threads you see around here since 6.68. And again there is no particular counter or answer to OP's question. Just use your brain and teamplay.
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:32 AM   #21
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
If I have an item that gives +1500 stats for 53g

And you have an item that gives +1 stats for 53g

How do you counter me without using my item?
buying that same item lol?

Items can always be bought with money, heroes can't. Nonsense analogy is nonsense.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:59 AM   #22
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

from what I can see is that the strategy is dependant on wisp coz of relocate + overcharge + tether
all sven does is the usual routine: stun + ulti + activate items + right click

guess u just need to counter that wisp asap
high burst damagers might help in taking out wisp asap so that sven is left by himself afterwards.
another possible counter is to ruin their laning phase as much as possible so they will have a hard time farming and getting to level 6, either by ganking, superior lane control, trilanes, anything that works.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:07 AM   #23
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

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Originally Posted by Lollypatrolly View Post
Sven laughs at CotS as he has Warcry.
1. Who the hell gets Warcry that early?
2. Warcry has 36/30/24/18 cd, CotS has 14 cd.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:11 AM   #24
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

get more than 1 blademail (per allies, not 2 on the same hero), and go next to allies and all active blademail

this against lich and nevermore too
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:14 AM   #25
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Some options:

1.Use thrall to send back one of them back to fountain (or wherever they might come from)
2.Get easy to escape hero, faceless void would be perfect with timewalk & short cd chronosphere, and you can continue farming after
3. Or just dagger, even if sven has dagger too at least tether would be in cooldown if you're lucky. The rest of the 12 secs, just pray.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:18 AM   #26
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

It's hard to counter a hero with a completely broken skillset.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:47 AM   #27
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

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Originally Posted by Leadblast View Post
I can't understand English so I will just insult your post.
I clearly put in the pre-req that you couldn't use the same item. Reading comprehension must be more difficult than I thought...
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Old 10-18-2010, 07:58 AM   #28
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Quote:
Originally Posted by zxdragon12 View Post
1. Who the hell gets Warcry that early?
2. Warcry has 36/30/24/18 cd, CotS has 14 cd.
Answer to 1: Sven who faces silencer in lane.
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Old 10-18-2010, 08:28 AM   #29
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

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Originally Posted by flieskiller View Post
get more than 1 blademail (per allies, not 2 on the same hero), and go next to allies and all active blademail

this against lich and nevermore too
so you should go for blademail against bkb users? I didn't know that.
I'll try it my next game.
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:59 PM   #30
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

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Originally Posted by Kris View Post
I clearly put in the pre-req that you couldn't use the same item. Reading comprehension must be more difficult than I thought...
How can you stop me from buying items anyway? Are you thinking of banning items too? Reading comprehension is clearly not your strongest asset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollypatrolly View Post
Answer to 1: Sven who faces silencer in lane.
answer to 2: none
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:15 PM   #31
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

thrall and glimpse vs IO? xD
just a random guess
field should be good vs sven later on
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:42 PM   #32
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Get bane then enfeeble/sleep sven and ult/brain sap wisp.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:18 PM   #33
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

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Originally Posted by Leadblast View Post
How can you stop me from buying items anyway? Are you thinking of banning items too? Reading comprehension is clearly not your strongest asset.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How do you counter me without using my item?
L2 read k thx bye
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:09 PM   #34
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

^ noob responses...he is trying to define how it is hard to counter something imbalanced in logical mannner and all u can do is try to win brownie points.
your response amounts to-
Que: how do i counter wisp and sven
Ans: play APSameHero and pick Io and sven yourself.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:06 PM   #35
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

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Originally Posted by Prongs13 View Post
^ noob responses...he is trying to define how it is hard to counter something imbalanced in logical mannner and all u can do is try to win brownie points.
your response amounts to-
Que: how do i counter wisp and sven
Ans: play APSameHero and pick Io and sven yourself. (And see how they counter it)
Seriously
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:11 PM   #36
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

How comes everyone here agrees that Wisp is imbalanced? Low HP for a strenght hero, low base dmg, below average range and low ms. His skill set is incredible, sure, but stun/burst dmg > Io.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:29 PM   #37
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

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Originally Posted by Treibjagd View Post
How comes everyone here agrees that Wisp is imbalanced? Low HP for a strenght hero, low base dmg, below average range and low ms. His skill set is incredible, sure, but stun/burst dmg > Io.
not imbalanced but actually hard to counter
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:31 PM   #38
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Diffusal Blade.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:41 PM   #39
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Alone wisp is not much imba..however playign a pub where the host is in a cafe with his lanners and using a wisped ursa/sven is gg
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:55 PM   #40
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Default Re: Wisp + Sven... Need help to counter them....

Furion and Thrall, spectre as a carry. Else good map awareness to see the gank coming (there is a ping right?).
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