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Old 10-22-2010, 02:23 PM   #1
Razorya
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Default Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit


~!WORK IN PROGRESS!~ Q_Q
(-BITCH SWAP-)

Razorya's Guide To
Shendelzare Silkwood
The Vengeful Spirit


[zomg I should totally draw a Venge and she would go here :3]

Introduction

Vengeful Spirit has been hanging around the competitive scene for quite a long time now. Picked in almost every single high level match, as well as often seen in pubs, this is a popular lady we are looking at. She is generally considered to be one of the most versatile and fun heroes to play, and has proven to be a nasty one to face - if played decently.
I am not a talented DotA player, but I do know the theory. Seeing terrible item builds and especially terrible skillbuilds on Venge makes me cry inside. So I decided to write this guide. Not to prove my right and other players' wrong, but simply to assist readers in elevating their skills with her to the next level.

This guide will focus on several aspects of Vengeful Spirit you should keep in mind while in (semi-)organized games, such as how to play Venge in a trilane or how to roam with her. (This does not mean it is completely useless for public games though!)


Table of Contents
  1. Introducing miss Silkwood
  2. Spells to throw
  3. Skills to skill
  4. Shopping
  5. Something about trilanes
  6. Something about roaming
  7. Something about _extra_ synergy
  8. o.o
  9. mreowr
  10. spiders
  11. Credits :3

Introducing miss Silkwood
...a profile of Vengeful Spirit
Hero Profile



Once a mighty warden and sister of Mortred, the maniacal laughter of her sibling and the chakram of hers covered in her own just drawn blood is a sight that even today still haunts Shendelzare. Hearing the laments of her loyal daughter, Elune decided to not forsake her, and she graced her with a new body along with abilities to harness powers from the nether-world and a fighting spirit only owned by those who have met death itself. Shendelzare now leads the Sentinel's army, fearless of what could come at her, an avatar of the dreadful emotions within the soul of her former self. Eh, that's pretty evil though.

Affiliation: Neutral
Attack Animation: 0.33 / 0.64
Damage: 39 - 53
Casting Animation: 0.3 / 0.51
Armor: 3.1
Base Attack Time: 1.7
Movespeed: 295
Missile Speed: 1500
Attack Range: 400
Sight Range: 1800 / 800
16 + 2.3
27 + 2.35
15 + 1.75

Vengeful Spirit does not excell in any of her stats, besides her good starting agility and armor, and the fact that she is ranged (even though her range is small). Her strength and intelligence gains are nothing to brag about, and I hope I don't have to explain deliberately she is not & will ever be a Terrorblade-style lategame agi carry or a spell spammer.

Why would I want to learn how to use Vengeful Spirit?

[+++]
  • Awesome in ganking, pushing, and trilaning strats
  • Good roamer/ganker/initiator
  • Skills are still useful lategame, so scales well
  • Not item dependant (no afk ricing - you actually get to play the game when you're Venge!)
  • Great synergy with top picks like Drow
  • Fun and challenging to play ("easy to play, hard to master")
  • Can play mindgames with swap and armor reduction
  • Can scout
  • Knows how to team fight, but is not instadead when running around alone
[+++]



Spells to throw
...besides throwing yourself when you attack
Surely our dear spirit needs some tryhard skills to back her vengeful feelings toward her twisted sister up! Eat this, Morty!



Magic Missile - (Active, Single-Target, Affects Enemy Units)
A magic missile is thrown at an enemy unit, causing damage and stunning the target.


______.________._______.___._______.__________________________.
 ManaCooldownC. RangeAoEDurationEffects
111010 sec500n/a1.45 secDeals 100 damage and stuns for 1.45 seconds.
212010 sec500n/a1.55 secDeals 175 damage and stuns for 1.55 seconds.
313010 sec500n/a1.65 secDeals 250 damage and stuns for 1.65 seconds.
414010 sec500n/a1.75 secDeals 325 damage and stuns for 1.75 seconds.

Notes:
  1. Damage type: magical
  2. Stun time scales since 6.69

The "bread and butter" skill of Vengeful Spirit. A reliable disable that, like any stun, serves many purposes. Initiating, escaping, stopping a channeling fag - no problem. The range is fine, and the manacost is not too high, especially considering the relatively high damage combined with the fact that Venge is a ranged hero. This skill means she can almost immediately get in a couple of hits on the target. Fragile heroes go down easily by it, especially early game.

Wave of Terror - (Active, Point Target, Affects Enemy Units)
Shendelzare lets loose a wicked cry, terrorizing enemy units. Their armor and damage are reduced.


______.________._______.___._______.__________________________.
 ManaCooldownC. RangeAoEDurationEffects
14015 sec140030020 secReduces base armor by 2 and damage by 5%.Deals 18.75 damage.
24015 sec140030020 secReduces base armor by 3 and damage by 10%.Deals 37.5 damage.
34015 sec140030020 secReduces base armor by 4 and damage by 15%.Deals 56.25 damage.
44015 sec140030020 secReduces base armor by 5 and damage by 20%.Deals 75 damage.

Notes:
  1. Damage type: HP loss
  2. The wave gives vision as it goes forward
  3. Only decreases base damage and that given by the primary attribute of the units

A great and underrated spell, that weakens all enemy units it hits considerably and makes them more vulnerable to ganks/teamfights. Its low cooldown and manacost means that it's spammable as hell. The sight it gives is really useful, and even scoring kills when you thought an enemy had gotten away is not rare! Above all, the visual is purple. Makes me happy. :3


Command Aura - (Passive)
Increases nearby units' damage.


______.________._______.___._______.__________________________.
 ManaCooldownC. RangeAoEDurationEffects
1n/an/an/a900n/a12% bonus damage.
2n/an/an/a900n/a20% bonus damage.
3n/an/an/a900n/a28% bonus damage.
4n/an/an/a900n/a36% bonus damage.

Notes:
  1. The bonus damage provided by the aura is based on base damage and primary attribute.
  2. The aura doesn't stack with the Alpha Wolf creep Command Aura, but does stack with for example the damage aura of Vladimirs Offering.

An aura that benefits every ally - be it creeps or heroes - in an AoE of 900! Sounds tasty in my opinion! The percentage based damage boost means shitloads of extra damage lategame.


Nether Swap - (Active, Single-Target, Affects Targeted Hero and Self)
Instantaneously swaps positions with a target Hero.


______.________._______.___._______.__________________________.
 ManaCooldownC. RangeAoEDurationEffects
110045 (10*) sec600n/an/aVengeful Spirit and the target instantly swap positions.
215045 (10*) sec900n/an/aVengeful Spirit and the target instantly swap positions.
320045 (10*) sec1200n/an/aVengeful Spirit and the target instantly swap positions.

Notes:
  1. Works on magic immune units.
  2. Trees near Vengeful Spirit and the target will be destroyed upon swapping.
  3. Interrupts channeling skills of the target.
  4. Can be improved by Aghanim's Scepter (* shows the improved values).

Miss Silkwoods famous and feared signature skill! This skill brings an extra dimension to her gameplay - reaching level 6 is like finding a cookie jar!
Saving allies or yourself, instantly situating an enemy in the middle of your allies' concentrated fire, playing mindgames... it's all possible. The scepter upgrade makes Venge even more awesome. I mean, 10 seconds cd? Trololo. : D


Skills to skill
...wishes to fulfill

General Skillbuild
  1. Magic Missile
  2. Howl of Terror
  3. Magic Missile / Howl of Terror
  4. Howl of Terror / Magic Missile / Command Aura
  5. Magic Missile / Howl of Terror
  6. Nether Swap
  7. Magic Missile / Howl of Terror
  8. Howl of Terror / Magic Missile
  9. Howl of Terror / Magic Missile
  10. Command Aura / Stats
  11. Nether Swap
  12. Command Aura / Stats
  13. Command Aura / Stats
  14. Command Aura / Stats
  15. Stats / Command Aura
  16. Nether Swap

Justification
As you can see the usual build is to get one level of Magic Missile and Howl, prioritize Magic Missile and Nether Swap above Howl and end with Command Aura or stats.
One level of Magic Missile and one level of Howl of Terror are mandatory.
Of course, every build is situational, which is why I want to make some sidenotes.

FAQ
The Howl of Terror versus Magic Missile argument.
Since the scaling of Magic Missile that was introduced in 6.69 Magic Missile is normally leveled over Howl of Terror. This is because of the burst damage and the stun duration increase that can be essential. Earlygame heroes aren't strong enough to tank a lot of damage anyway, so the thing you should focus on is getting your enemies into a position where you can damage them (auto attack for the win!) and keeping them there (chain stunning as far as possible). When you are ganking, a "hard" stun that gives you a positioning advantage (you and your allies can move while the enemy hero cannot) and the damage is awesome and instant.
Leveling Howl of Terror means not only reducing the enemy's chances of taking you or one of your allies with you, but more importantly increases the damage all your allies AND creeps do on them. Thus it's a great skill, but a little less mandatory to skill than Magic Missile. You should definitely max it as it can be amazing both early and late in engagements.
Situationally, when you are doing a bad job managing your mana pool for example, you may consider skilling Howl of Terror over Magic Missile though.
"Why don't you skill Command Aura early?"
The only, let me emphasize that, ONLY time that you would skill Command Aura early is when you are delibarately trying to push a lane. In a regular game where your team is not doing a push strat that is the last thing you want. The more you push your lane, the farther you have to cross the river or at least head away from your tower into a zone where the enemy gets an advantage. Last hitting gets harder for whatever ally is attempting to farm the lane and far easier for the enemies in the lane that want to farm.
tl;dr Don't skill command aura unless you want to give your enemies free exp and gold OR you are involved in a push strat.
I also added an optional level 4 Command Aura that is often seen in Chinese competitive play.
"You say Command Aura is great lategame. Why not pick stats over Command Aura then?"
Stats over Command Aura is viable indeed, but usually when you are Venge and play in an organized game, there is a slim chance you will level up as hard as the rest of your team. Which means that if you reach level 11 or so, the carries in your team might be a couple of levels higher already and they benefit from the aura greatly. So unless you are leveling up flawlessly, you will probably want to skill Command Aura around level 12.
"Why do you level up Nether Swap more than once?"
The increase in the casting range allows for safer and more reliable initiation, as well as making things like chasing or disabling far easier and better. If you've been ingame with a level 16 Venge you know how amazing this skill is at level 3. Gamebreaking in my opinion.

Shopping
...guys never know what to buy their ladies =^_^=

Before you start thinking over what items you want to get, you should remember the role of this hero.
To sum up some things you should once again keep in mind:
  • She will be running around loads to kill
  • She will not be getting a lot of farm
  • She is a support so will spend early money on essentials (courier, wards, dust, tp's for carries and even gems for tanks)
  • She is not a carry
  • She can be dangerous without an inventory of 20k.
With that in mind, we can take a closer look at the items you should be considering when you play her.

Suggested Starting Items
or
  • A clarity potion is necessary as it's quite probably you will run out of mana somewhere early in the game (be it in lane or between ganks) when you need it.
  • Buy a chick OR wards, NOT both. When you play an organized game you should have two supports in your team usually (or at least two heroes that don't need heavy farm). The other person should then buy the other thing. Also, if you're not secure about your warding capabilities it's not much use getting wards. Rather leave it to others then or ask for help. Motto: Don't ward like a tard. Though one might argue a bad ward is better than nothing, a bad ward is also waste and since there's a cooldown on wards you can't afford to waste them.
  • Branches can later be upgraded to a Magic Wand. I usually get 2 or 3 at the start.

Core
or
  • Magic Wand is a lovely item that gets rid of the many slots the branches take, as well as it's cheap and it offers burst heal/manaregen that remains useful most of the game and can save your or your ally's guts.
  • Boots need no explanation.
  • Bracer or Point Booster: Bracers are great on supports, offering a little bit of every stat and some damage and thus an increase in survivability. A Point Booster is another choice as Vengeful doesn't have poor stat gain herself and some health and mana could already be enough for her to rape shit. When you decide for either, keep in mind that a Bracer can be upgraded to a Janggo and a Point Booster can be upgraded to an Aghanim's. For the rest the decision for either item won't be gamebreaking if you don't upgrade it.
  • Observer/Sentry Wards: Obvious supporter items.
  • Teleport Scroll: Though you don't have to buy them at the very start of the game, for the rest you should be carrying these around ALL. THE. TIME. ALWAYS. Check out how many TPs pros buy on their supports/heroes in general... Indeed. Thus it's a core item.

Optional

Bottle - A great item for roamers that run around. You are a support hero so you should be aiming for some map control using wards and abusing the runes. Once you've bottled a rune, you can use it to gank an unsuspecting hero - any rune gives you a great advantage over the opponent. Being a support hero may also mean giving for example regeneration runes away or letting others take a sip from your drink.
Optional because many solo mid heroes that are often seen nowadays like Storm Spirit and Nevermore should be getting bottle instead. Two bottles on a team is not really done.
Get it when
  • Nobody on your team has a hero on which Bottle is a musthave
  • Your map awareness is decent enough (not too practical having bottle if you're not taking runes)
  • You are running around the map a lot (roaming)
  • You don't have a dramatically low full hp (eg if you're gonna die from two hits anyway 3 charges are not gonna save you)
Urn of Shadows - This is another fantastic ganking/support item. Because you are going to be around when enemies die (since you should be taking part in any major ganking), you will see your charges skyrocket soon. The health and mana regen this item gives is also very nice for Vengeful. Lategame it can trigger Linken's on enemies, so using it before stunning is a great way of surpassing the spell block. It's also used to continuously damage one enemy, but mostly to heal yourself or an ally during or after a battle.
Optional because other supports or heroes like Slardar or Witch Doctor might be getting it, and on them it is more mandatory. Vengeful is fragile, but not the most fragile support hero. She has a reliable disable as well, so she should not be having as much trouble as other glass supports.
Get it when:
  • Nobody on your team has a hero on which Urn is a musthave
  • You are around when enemy heroes die (you should be!)
  • An enemy has Linken's Sphere
  • Your team lacks heals
  • You like purple items

Extensions

Aghanim's Scepter - 10 seconds cooldown Nether Swap. It's not exactly cheap and because you shall not be farming you probably won't be getting this item until mid-late game, IF you will be completing it at all. I suggest buying the Point Booster first for survivability purposes (bigger health and mana pool are quite useful to Venge). With this item, you are a true bitch. Abuse that.
Force Staff - Vengeful Spirit is all about disrupting enemy formations and positioning. Since Dagger is not an option, what other item could aid her most optimally? Our dear 20 seconds cooldown, 25 mana costing Force Staff!
The potential of Force Staff:
  • Saving yourself by double clicking it, for example after a swap
  • Use it to position yourself for a perfect swap
  • Chase + Stun
  • Force another enemy out of its formation, besides swapping the first
  • Help an ally initiate or prevent enemies from initiating (requires working reflexes!) Force Staff extends the initiating range by 500!
  • Special synergy with heroes like Puck (Dream Coil), Bloodseeker (Rupture), Enchantress (Impetus), Ezalor (Mana Leak), Batrider (Lasso), etc...
Power Treads - This is the extension that you will probably be getting most. The recipe is fine and all parts can be bought at the side shop. Get a Belt of Giant Strength over the Gloves (obviously).
Power Treads vs. Phase Boots
  • Power Treads offer a versatile management of attack damage/health+regeneration and mana+regeneration. Though usually your Treads should be Strength Treads, it doesn't hurt to pay some attention to them and witch them around sometimes.
  • Phase Boots offer attack damage and the phase skill, which is arguably awesome for the help in positioning when swapping people around or running to the rescue! Nonetheless the attack damage is kind of wasted on a hard support Venge. It's nice, but we aren't playing her as a carry here (let's leave that to niggers like Morphling, Drow and Medusa, shall we?). In most games getting a good swap is usually not too dependent on specific positioning for which you need Phase. It CAN make life a bit easier, but it affects your survivability. In my opinion survivability>slight chance of increasing some of your swaps. If you stay alive after you swap, you can stun more enemy heroes and provide your allies with your Rapist Aura. That is what you should be aiming for. If you really think that without Phase Boots you can't make proper swaps that are needed for your team I suggest you practice some positioning .
Ancient Janggo of Endurance - This new item is a great support item at any time during the game and easy to upgrade from the Bracer you might have gotten in your core. The recipe is not expensive, and the Robe of the Magi you have to buy for this item is useful as it increases your manapool and regeneration. I have found that especially earlygame it's sometimes hard to manage Venge's manapool. The mana you get from the Robe might JUST give you that extra stun that you needed ;>.
Situational

Vladimirs Offering - What? Vengeful Spirit is not a melee hero, why the hell would you get Vlads? To support your allied heroes and creeps of course!
  • Vlad's lifesteal/damage aura is a great help when you need to push lanes.
  • Your happy carry friend will get a damage aura and if it's a melee hero he can just get a different orb without having to pay 2050 gold himself to get lifesteal. Instead when he's near you he will lifesteal. "Vladimirs Offering.. Making buttbuddies is fun!"
  • Basilius is a decent item, nobody dislikes some mana regen, armor and attack damage, especially if it means that your carries then won't have to pay for it yet profit from it.
  • Ring of Regeneration is also not a bad item earlygame.
  • It stacks with Command Aura! Unlike the Command Aura the Alpha Wolf has, the Vladimirs Offering attack damage aura stacks with Venge's own aura. Nice!: D
Ghost Scepter - A nice counter to physical dps heroes that would rape Venge in <5 seconds otherwise. Gives you some more time to get cd done on your stun/swap/wand. Good on any hero when facing enemies like Naix, Drow or Medusa.
Vanguard - Though I personally prefer getting a Point Booster or a Bracer, you might face a situation where you think getting a Vanguard is necessarily. Don't rule out the possibility. It's not the perfect item for Venge, but if your aim is to survive after you've swapped yourself right into the middle of the enemy's formation, then this item will definitely be of aid.
Luxury

You won't be getting any of these items unless it's some kind of miga 100 minutes game in which all kinds of random things happen like player drops etc. Just writing them down for the sake of it.


Guinsoo's Scythe of Vyse -This is simply one of the most useful items in the game, though it's expensive. It would be wrong to not write it down here, even though it's kind of obvious. An extra hex is never bad and the stat gain is good on basically every hero you can come up with.
Manta Style - Yasha is a great item that improves positioning possibilities, attack damage/speed and armor. I'm not really a fan of Manta on Venge, I *never* get it myself but I can imagine that when you're in some kind of retarded game where you have over 9000 gold you might want to get it for pushing purposes or countering certain heroes.
Sange and Yasha - This item is currently seen in basically every game. It's when you get Yasha and need some more survivability. Though her attack speed isn't bad naturally, I think the maim is kind of wasted on her though. So is the pink colour of the item. Pink is so overrated...
Ethereal Blade - Though an Eaglehorn is not something you are going to be able to afford in regular games, it can be a great item to disable an enemy like Naix from attacking your allies. It's an upgrade from the situation Ghost Scepter you might want to get obviously. Don't get it for uber1337 Morphlike synergy though.
Fashion flops


Armlet of Mordiggian - Are you a bulky tank that looks as if he has not eaten in twenty days and is now looking for the corpse of a dog? No. Are you masculine? No. Don't get this item.
Kelen's Dagger - Why the fuck are you even reading this. Dagger doesn't work on Vengeful. If you want to go all over the place anyway, get a Force Staff.
Cranium Basher - Is your attackspeed hilariously high? Are you a carry? Do you want to look like a netherzerg? No.
Battlefury - Unless you get six of them, this item is not for Vengeful. You are not here to get an attack of over 9000. It's cool if you do, but it's even cooler if you leave it for other badasses. You don't need a non-working cleave to be cool. Spend your gold on something useful.
Necromonicon - Though Necrobook is a fine item, it is meant to get quite early in the game for some extra health as well as intelligence points, and of course the summons are relatively stronger early game. Venge does not have the resources to rush a Necrobook. You could get it if you like reading, but I kind of hope you won't have time for that in game o.o.
Mekansm - Though an item like this can hardly do any wrong to a team, it's way too defensive for an offensive support hero like Venge. You could considerate, but there are a lot other heroes that could also get it on which it would be better (Pugna, Windrunner, Lich, Meepo, Chen, Enchantress to name some). You might think: This is an awesome support item and I should get it! But I won't encourage that thought. It's not horribad, but it's not good. Rather get something else.
Khadgars Pipe of Insight - Kind of the same story as with Mekansm. It's a defensive item that can situationally be useful, but usually is misplaced on Venge, who wants cheapass offensive items.
Credits
Maybe it's kind of pathetic I've started this section before even being even close to halfway of my guide, but I'm so afraid I will forget people ._.
I used gwho's The Right Guide To Guide-Write for some evil coding, this post by Aequinox for the tables of the spells (they caused massive confusion in my head though : D), and wutwats VS draft guide with his permission of course. He sadly never got to finish it, though I am quite sure he would have done a better job than I'm doing. Nonetheless I tried D:.

~Work In Progress~
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Last edited by Razorya; 08-29-2011 at 09:51 PM.
Old 10-22-2010, 02:46 PM   #2
S.Rebel
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Raz makes VS guide :O Give me a pm if you need help
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Old 10-22-2010, 02:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Gameplay walktrough: Stun someone, wave in the middle, swap and die.

J/k, good luck <3
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Old 10-22-2010, 02:58 PM   #4
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^guide finished GG
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Old 10-22-2010, 02:59 PM   #5
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Raz goes guidewriting *o* Do what wutwat never did and finish it :D
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:00 PM   #6
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Oh lawd. o.o
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:59 PM   #7
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My faith shattert after seeing Torrent :D
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Old 10-22-2010, 04:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Glad to see you have so much faith in me :3
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Old 10-22-2010, 05:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

razorya goes guide writing on venge . nice waiting for your awesome pics & guide
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Old 10-23-2010, 02:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Raz know how to do guides!!?
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Old 10-23-2010, 02:49 PM   #11
Razorya
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Nah, just doing an attempt
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunnyWarfare View Post
My faith shattert after seeing Torrent
Please spell it properly kind sir.
Anyways, I'd totally implement an anchorsystem!
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:58 PM   #13
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:55 PM   #14
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Good luck with the guide Raz, glad to see some old people members making these.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Looks nice. I hope there is going to be some nice gameplay tips. Also don't forget to include some of the 820's replays, he is the best Venge imo. Lood Guck.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Don't really get why you would be making Vanguard on her though. The damage block will already be worthless when you get it since you can't really get it fast as VS; we are talking about a ranged hero as well. No, Strength Treads and Point Booster is much better for those purposes.

Other then that it looks very promising, thumbs up!
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Didn't read the whole thing (not the whole draft that is), but regardless of the content, I approve of the title (bitch swap).
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:02 PM   #18
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Diffusal Blade as an situational item to annoy certain ugly heroes like Wl, Omni, Brood, Sven? The rest isn't totally wasted, too... who doesn't want a slow or maybe an attempt to deal some damage :D?
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

wow so pro !!!
try including manta as one item for her in case she really has spare gold. The images help give out command aura thereby freeing her so she can easily swap and die
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Old 10-24-2010, 03:15 AM   #20
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaar View Post
Don't really get why you would be making Vanguard on her though. The damage block will already be worthless when you get it since you can't really get it fast as VS; we are talking about a ranged hero as well. No, Strength Treads and Point Booster is much better for those purposes.

Other then that it looks very promising, thumbs up!
Health simply > all ^^
Vanguard is not a bad item on her at all, especially when you're as lucky of a bastard as I am. It's not a bad item to have late either - if surivivability is what you need, no doubt it's gonna come in handy.
But... Don't worry, I'll write a full justification once I get to that part :] Thanks for the critique.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Estraz View Post
Didn't read the whole thing (not the whole draft that is), but regardless of the content, I approve of the title (bitch swap).
Be female write guide about female hero np


Quote:
Originally Posted by FunnyWarfare View Post
Diffusal Blade as an situational item to annoy certain ugly heroes like Wl, Omni, Brood, Sven? The rest isn't totally wasted, too... who doesn't want a slow or maybe an attempt to deal some damage ?
You would buy her a Basher?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongs13 View Post
wow so pro !!!
try including manta as one item for her in case she really has spare gold. The images help give out command aura thereby freeing her so she can easily swap and die
I, liek true pro, had already put it in at luxury items. Yasha is nice to get optionally, so upgrading that into Manta to get some more extras in the same slot is never bad. :] Thanks for the comment.
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:28 AM   #21
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorya View Post
You would buy her a Basher?
Too look kewl, yes. I'm a boy, I have to look manly even when playing a girl hero.
But when you let strange heroes like... Kunkka (:O) or just normal supports buy it just to counter a hero (ok, maybe you have some useful Diffu carrier sometimes), you could actually leave that to Venge who could at least try to deal some damage after swapping in a whole team to kill some hero (Actually because a bit damage and a pretty useful slow are nice for ganks etc)

I don't want to post a new post, I have too much of these here already:
Vladi: 2050
Vanguard 2225
Ghost: 1600
Diffu with it's 3300 is maybe a bit out of price, but srsly: I don't mean you should FARM for it. But when you have money and there is some ugly Brood for example (who prolly has Bkb, but anyway ), why shouldn't you go for it?
And when you don't need a Vladi? Just a RoB (maybe recommend it as a single item)? When your guy that wanted to go for a Diffu doesn't get farm? DON'T TRY TO OWN ME BY ANY MEANS, IT'S AN IMBA OPTIONAL ITEM! ROAR!
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:20 AM   #22
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

@Weasel
I don't thinking farming for diffusal is a smart choice for VS. Remember she roams and dies for the carry so what happens when she doesn't get the farm for Diffusal. Let her be reliable by being the one to carry Aura Items that are cheap.

But on a manly note, get Stygian on her so she can be as manly as a bearded Axe
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Old 10-24-2010, 11:00 AM   #23
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Quote:
Originally Posted by FunnyWarfare View Post
Too look kewl, yes. I'm a boy, I have to look manly even when playing a girl hero.
But when you let strange heroes like... Kunkka (:O) or just normal supports buy it just to counter a hero (ok, maybe you have some useful Diffu carrier sometimes), you could actually leave that to Venge who could at least try to deal some damage after swapping in a whole team to kill some hero (Actually because a bit damage and a pretty useful slow are nice for ganks etc)

I don't want to post a new post, I have too much of these here already:
Vladi: 2050
Vanguard 2225
Ghost: 1600
Diffu with it's 3300 is maybe a bit out of price, but srsly: I don't mean you should FARM for it. But when you have money and there is some ugly Brood for example (who prolly has Bkb, but anyway ), why shouldn't you go for it?
And when you don't need a Vladi? Just a RoB (maybe recommend it as a single item)? When your guy that wanted to go for a Diffu doesn't get farm? DON'T TRY TO OWN ME BY ANY MEANS, IT'S AN IMBA OPTIONAL ITEM! ROAR!
If you swap yourself in, what you need to focus on is having mana and survivability for stunning and howling constantly to finish all enemies off while your allies get pumped by your aura.

OF COURSE there are very situational items that you can get if your team is in desperate need of certain item abilities, but in my opinion unless you are COMPLETELY stomping the opponents' team, there is not a chance you would randomly "have" enough money for a diffu blade. Cause if you did, you would be doing it wrong and should be buying more wards.

Besides, you have a reliable disable with 10 seconds cooldown AND a swap. If you gank well you will probably not need any more slows from your side. Often you will be roaming together with an ES or Sven or Veno, and in those cases you can already get a real long stun and slow duration off on the target anyway.
Naturally every little added slow or ability helps but that's not really a good argument here.

Also, if your guy that is going for diffusal doesn't get farm he AND you are doing it wrong :/. Needs more lane control obviously and needs more farm and survival oriented gameplay from the guy that is trying to farm the diffu. It's not THAT big of an item with too expensive components or anything, so it should definitely be possible, even in a tough game.

tl;dr Almost any item could be bought highly situationally, but generally you don't get diffu on Venge.

I will be aiming to discuss most items in my guide anyway so Thanks for your input.
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Old 10-24-2010, 11:02 AM   #24
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Guide By Dunja : O
Definately not reading.
LOL Jk,
TL;WRL (will read later)
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Old 10-24-2010, 11:42 AM   #25
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

I'm in discussing mood So I defend my Diffu pointlessly. Well actually this is about items and not farming in general.
Quote:
OF COURSE there are very situational items that you can get if your team is in desperate need of certain item abilities, but in my opinion unless you are COMPLETELY stomping the opponents' team, there is not a chance you would randomly "have" enough money for a diffu blade/vladi/ghost/vang/agh/fs/guinsoo/manta/sata/EthBlade/Basher . Cause if you did, you would be doing it wrong and should be buying more wards.
Fixed? Remove all these items because they need farm! Well according to you that's pretty correct, isn't it?
If you reach one of these luxuries, you failed, am I right? ^.^

Stuff about Diffu, not worth reading actually:
Quote:
It's not THAT big of an item with too expensive components or anything
Ahaa, ahaa, ahaa...
Quote:
Almost any item could be bought highly situationally
Nah, the need to purge something away isn't THAT unrealistic

I know that Diffu isn't bought in any game, isn't core, etc etc, but why is it so unrealistic for you to buy it ?
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Last edited by FunnyWarfare; 10-24-2010 at 12:19 PM.
Old 10-24-2010, 12:21 PM   #26
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

ei??what's flip flop??

by the way just put your pic in a VS costume in the top part its a sure win
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:25 PM   #27
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Quote:
Originally Posted by toasta View Post
ei??what's flip flop??

by the way just put your pic in a VS costume in the top part its a sure win
fashion flops lol, like an extremely fat girl wearing white tights (which accentuates how fat she is and makes her look ugly)
B)
Maybe I shall make an undertitle for each section lol.


I don't feel like writing a response now Max but I will later so stay tuned B)
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:30 PM   #28
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Meh on the guide, I'm more on how you describe things.

'Guys don't know how to buy for their ladies' make me lol'd
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:35 PM   #29
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

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Originally Posted by Razorya View Post
fashion flops lol, like an extremely fat girl wearing white tights (which accentuates how fat she is and makes her look ugly)
B)
Maybe I shall make an undertitle for each section lol.


I don't feel like writing a response now Max but I will later so stay tuned B)
yay..girls making it too hard..why don't you just say that fashion fail.. -__-
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Old 10-24-2010, 01:36 PM   #30
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorya View Post
I don't feel like writing a response now Max but I will later so stay tuned B)
Convince me and write the result in your guide, then you can say fuck you to all people who think like me and never need to discuss that again Looking forward to seeing your sick toughts ^.^


Edit: Oh btw, maybe you should say why Venge isn't a (semi)carry. Because I did that like a thousand times, here is my 3 point argumentation that EVERYONE with an IQ higher than a toast (nothing against the guy before me) understands to take some work from you :

1. Farming instead of ganking wastes Venge's early game potential.
2. Ganking instead of farming doesn't waste her late game potential. (Damge/Damage reduction works for your allies)
3. A carry shouldn't have/use a suicide-ulti

Edit2: At least Lycan supports my beloved Diffu. Well he recommended Diffu for support Magnus, I kinda expected that
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Last edited by FunnyWarfare; 10-24-2010 at 02:29 PM.
Old 10-24-2010, 01:45 PM   #31
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

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Originally Posted by toasta View Post
yay..girls making it too hard..why don't you just say that fashion fail.. -__-
Because 'flop' is a word and Fashion Flop is kinda popular term.
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Old 10-24-2010, 01:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

To convince Weasel you have to show him in the game how its done. Just like how I showed him the way of the Omniknight
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Old 10-24-2010, 02:19 PM   #33
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Content

Pro's / Con's
Excels at disrupting formations....


Magic Missile:
no note of how it can be dodged

Terror:
No mention of the fact that -armor is most effective during early/mid game but remains usefull during lategame.
Also useable for scouting and anti-jukes.


Command Aura:
Great for mass pushing, and lasthitting

Nether swap:
Disrupting any type of formation, Counter inniation. Free dagger couped with an invis rune for your inniator.


Skillbuild:

No mention of the early stats stacking build... it's still a viable one sure it means less damage output but in a fisherman line-up it proves usefull.

Itembuild:
Lothars?
Diffussal Blade to counter enemies, sure it doesn't work with manta but lets be honest most of the people ain't that retarded to get a manta as well... It also counter heroes like Beast, Warlock, on top of stuff like sven,brood & omni
she has the farming possibilites to get it fast.
Also HotD/Deso no mention of these either bash them or optional and why


Missing sections:
Role in the team

Playerstyle with vs, Take Pusherstreet vs 820 totally different style of playing vs.

Synergy with heroes
counterpicks (storm etc.), and whoem to counter (troll etc.)



Format:

Pictures showing casting ranges, AoE's etc.

Some visual breaks perhaps. And ofcourse a 400*100(150) header to track the readers attention

Replays.

Anchors


Good luck dun

~Lycan
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Old 10-24-2010, 04:17 PM   #34
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Haha thanks for feedback ^^
I'm far from done with the guide though : ) Those things about the spells I was going to add in the Specific Gameplay section that is going to magically appear sometime :3 Screenshots will be there too ofc.

Anchors I'm saving for last because I'm a lazy mofo :3
Replays I will also do last, need to finish guide first.
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Old 10-28-2010, 12:34 PM   #35
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

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Anchors I'm saving for last because I'm a lazy mofo :3
actually there's no reason to write a guide then to begin with.
ANCHORS OMG
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:01 PM   #36
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

I'm waiting Dunja.
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:12 PM   #37
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

^What that guy said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorya
Vanguardz on venge is pr0


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Old 10-30-2010, 05:12 PM   #38
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Great guide raz. I want to see you play venge once. You should mention that her bitchswap goes through bkb and cancells channeling. Great against heroes like nevarmoar
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Old 10-30-2010, 06:45 PM   #39
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Default Re: Razorya's Guide to Vengeful Spirit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorya View Post
Haha thanks for feedback ^^
If you would like more feedback
you should build that diffusal.



Hurr durrrr I'm so helpful
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:38 AM   #40
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Looks pretty good so far. Are you not going to consider mekans or its components? Just wondering.
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