[REBALANCE] Doom Bringer

[NoThlnG]

The biggest problem of Lucifer is over-pseudo-balances. Read about pseudo-balances here



For current skill, please refer here

Changes are in green. LVL? Death is excluded from this remake because it is balanced IMO.

Doom Bringer
Lucifer




__________

DevourAbility Type: Active
Targeting Type: Unit
Ability Hotkey : E



Notes:

• Gives Lucifer the original bounty of the creep, along with the bonus gold corresponding to each level of the skill.
• The less HP a unit had when it was devoured, the less time it will take Lucifer to devour it.
• Everytime Lucifer devours a unit a bar is shown above his head showing the progress of the devouring process.
• Goes through magic immunity.
• You cannot devour ancient, mechanical or flying units.
• Can target units of level 2/3/4/6.
• If a neutral creep is targeted, you gain its abilities for duration (30/50/70/90 seconds).

• The main problem of this skill was imbaness of taking abilities permanently but Icefrog nerf it in pseudo way by increasing cooldown.
• In this way, it becomes balance without taking pseudo way of balance

Scorched EarthAbility Type: Active
Targeting Type: Instant
Ability Hotkey : T



Notes:

• Damage type : magic.
• The flames follow Doombringer for the duration of the ability.

• Another pseudo-balance. The main problem was imba heal + damage. Icefrog tried to balance it by increasing the cd but it was merely a pseudo balance.
• Imba MS bonus was due to long duration of 14 seconds. Thus reduce the duration as well.

DoomAbility Type: Active
Targeting Type: Unit
Ability Hotkey : D



Notes:

• Damage type: magic.
• Unlike other silences, Doom prevents the target from using items and disables some passive abilities.
• Units afflicted by Doom can be denied by their allies when their HP drops below 25% of their maximum health.
• Can be improved by Aghanim's Scepter (* shows the improved values).

• Doom lasted too long and dealt too much damage. Icefrog tried to balance it by long cd but Doom was still perma-ban in -cm
• It lasts much shorter and deals less daamage. But it becomes more spammable.
• Also, Aghanim will increase the duration instead of damage which will make Aghanim becomes core to Doom.

[Straight Flush]

Interesting... although i cannot read about pseudo-balances... I hold my vote until then. But everything else looks pretty good

[ChaoS_ThronE]

his STR growth is reduced or increased? I think stats should stay the same

T-down on devour, it should last longer, preferably 2 minutes. Cooldown stay the same

T-up on SE and Ulti, much much better

[Drickosh]

T-up

but I agree with ChaoS that it should last longer, maybe 1 minutes at full level (same with Doom's cd)

[NoThlnG]

Hmm... Ok. Devour now lasts much longer but got 5 seconds longer CD

[Monsterlord]

I can agree with pretty much all of that, he's been getting alot of shitty, badly thought out nerfs.

The only part I don't like is your Doom remake. I think making it spammable, especially with that Aghs duration, is an incredibly bad idea. Besides, it wasn't Doom alone that made him a permaban, that actually got nerfed with the 6.66 remake and he wasn't oerpowering before then. It's more the fact that he got Doom along with other powerful skills.

With the basic skills rebalanced, I personally think the ultimate can be left in it's current form.

[NoThlnG]

Hmm... Well, the most important part is SE then Devour then Doom anyway. What about if I make Doom's cd become 90 seconds?

[Monsterlord]

I could live with 90/10 seconds to be honest, or even 8/9/10 seconds. A little duration buff wouldn't even matter all that much, any Lucy worth his salt should be getting Aghs anyway.

[NoThlnG]

Ok then. Cooldown increased to 90, duration becomes 8/9/10 while damage becomes 40/60/80 per second

[teng)]

only t-up on Doom duration (while keep the total damage same).
t-d to others, unneeded nerf that will cause no one to pick him.

[Monsterlord]

only t-up on Doom duration (while keep the total damage same).
t-d to others, unneeded nerf that will cause no one to pick him.

Lawls.

[Nanaya Shiki]

Originally Posted by teng)

t-d to others, unneeded nerf that will cause no one to pick him.

That's not nerfing.
Current Doom's skills is strong so IF nerf his starting armor and MS to pseudo-balances, which is very ridiculous.
Viper also has the same problem (Nethertoxin is too strong at early, so he has been nerfed too, from 300 to 285 MS).
T-up for Scoorched and Doom. I have no idea about NoThlng's Devour...

[aestropher]

Current attributes are fine... The suggested attribute growth is exactly the same as Bara's. Maybe trade some int growth for agi, but let his str be.

Also giving Devour a duration means you have to constantly go to jungle looking for good neutrals, which is already a nuisance of the current Devour.
Devour is meant to provide you with a reliable neutral's skill, not a skill that is removed after 60 seconds.

I remember in the old days Luci was never a competitive pick, and his ulti used to deal 40-50ish dps over 14 seconds at level1... So his current (nerfed) ultimate is fine imo as it is really not his source of imbaness. It is pretty WTF for a single-target ultimate to deal a mere 320 total damage at level 1. In terms of damage, it is no better than Warlock's Shadow Word with a much, much longer cooldown.

[letarox]

t-up for ult

[Drickosh]

Nice numbers now~

I notice you nerf his starting str and str gain.. why though?

[aestropher]

Originally Posted by drickz

Nice numbers now~

I notice you nerf his starting str and str gain.. why though?

Starting str is still 26; but growth changed from 3.2 -- 2.5.

[Drickosh]

Originally Posted by aestropher

Starting str is still 26; but growth changed from 3.2 -- 2.5.

My bad.. I just remember that doom have more than 3.0 str gain and some huge starting str..

[NoThlnG]

Originally Posted by aestropher

Current attributes are fine... The suggested attribute growth is exactly the same as Bara's. Maybe trade some int growth for agi, but let his str be.

Also giving Devour a duration means you have to constantly go to jungle looking for good neutrals, which is already a nuisance of the current Devour.
Devour is meant to provide you with a reliable neutral's skill, not a skill that is removed after 60 seconds.

I remember in the old days Luci was never a competitive pick, and his ulti used to deal 40-50ish dps over 14 seconds at level1... So his current (nerfed) ultimate is fine imo as it is really not his source of imbaness. It is pretty WTF for a single-target ultimate to deal a mere 320 total damage at level 1. In terms of damage, it is no better than Warlock's Shadow Word with a much, much longer cooldown.

Hmm...

Devour : It's original purpose was to earn money and Icefrog recently added neutral-skill-stealing. But it was obvious that it was an imba change. That's why I'm suggesting this. I could increase the duration further but I want to keep the idea of having duration.

In old days, in real old days, Luci was picked much more than current and it was purely because of Doom. Also, everyone knows that primary function of Doom is not to damage. Nevertheless, increased the duration and damage.

Oh, and your comparison with Shadow Word doesn't make any difference. Carrion Swarm and Sonic Wave is pretty much same skill but Carrion Swarm lvl 4 deals more damage then Sonic Wave while Sonic Wave doesn't have any silencing.

Also, attribute changed.

[God_ii]

t-up. i like these suggestions.

[aestropher]

Originally Posted by NoThlnG

Hmm...

Devour : It's original purpose was to earn money and Icefrog recently added neutral-skill-stealing. But it was obvious that it was an imba change. That's why I'm suggesting this. I could increase the duration further but I want to keep the idea of having duration.

Oh, and your comparison with Shadow Word doesn't make any difference. Carrion Swarm and Sonic Wave is pretty much same skill but Carrion Swarm lvl 4 deals more damage then Sonic Wave while Sonic Wave doesn't have any silencing.

Also, attribute changed.

Attributes looks great to me now ^^

What if Devour no longer give any bonus gold? It kind of makes me lol when I think of how Luci finds 100 gold in his level 4 poop. :D

Since this remake will shift Luci's potency towards late game (armor buff, agi buff, Scotched Earth cooldown buff) it wouldn't hurt if we let him have permaneant neutral abilities in exchange of nerfing his farming capability (prevents him from getting Aghanim's or AC too fast). It's just that imo keeping neutrals' abilities is a more important aspect of Devour than farming. Plus we could always get neutrals' abilities from HotD anyways, so maybe it isn't that OP after all.

And yeah, lvl1 Sonic Wave is too weak compared to lvl4 Carrion Swarm.