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Old 11-01-2010, 06:38 PM   #1
Lithary
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Lightbulb Refresher Orb [Remake]


- Gonna close/delete and re-post this one! -

Version 1 is with entire new recipe, while version 2 has same recipe, but is also upgradable with some minor changes.


Refresher Orb:





Recipe:


Bracer (525 gold)


Wraith Band (485 gold)


Null Talisman (505 gold)


Oblivion Staff (1675 gold)


Refresher Orb Recipe (1650 gold)

Total: 4840/6490/8140 gold (Can be upgraded by buying recipe)

Bonuses:

+12 strength
+12 agility
+18 intelligence
+75% mana regeneration
+35 damage

Reset Cooldowns (active):
Resets the cooldowns of all your abilities and items.
Costs 400/500/600 MP, and has a 210/165/120 second cooldown.


Changelog:
• November the 6th, 2010.
- Made total change on the recipe.

• November the 7th, 2010.
- Reduced mana cost for Reset Cooldowns ability from 450/600/750 MP to 400/500/600 MP.

• November the 14th, 2010.
- Added an another version of upgradable Refresher Orb.


OK, now you all wonder why I did this.
Reason is that I want to make a version of Refresher Orb that can be upgraded in order to decrease it's cooldown (so heroes who depend on their spells can benefit more often from it), while not giving large boost to mana and it's regeneration so it can't be abused.
That's also why I've increased mana cost of Reset Cooldowns ability since you gain 234 MP from intelligence bonus from this item.
People may say that price is to large, but I don't think that it's a problem since you can have you (almost) regular Reset Cooldowns ability for even less gold than before, while upgrading is purely optional and I think that lot of players will find that useful.
Tell me what do you think about it and remember to judge on concept and not numbers, but warn me if numbers could use fixing.
Still, if you have any better idea of how to make Refresher Orb have lower cooldown, tell me since I am very curious and want to find a way to make Refresher Orb with lower cooldown.

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Last edited by Lithary; 06-22-2011 at 07:17 AM.
Old 11-01-2010, 08:15 PM   #2
RazorCrime
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

If there would be something to remake about refresher I would like that to be it's price...What you suggest is even more expensive than current one, even at level 1...and I don't see why would anyone upgrade this. T-down from me
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

rly expensive.... no one would ever upgrade it unless they got 6 core items and have 10000 gold lying around... t-down.
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

Str Refresher users will never upgrade that item that the mana cost is so big and the cost is expensive that is not very strong like Dagon 5.
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:39 PM   #5
Lithary
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorCrime View Post
If there would be something to remake about refresher I would like that to be it's price...What you suggest is even more expensive than current one, even at level 1...and I don't see why would anyone upgrade this. T-down from me
You can't wish for it to become cheaper since it gives strong activate ability, but still, I'll try to make an cheaper alternative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by God_ii View Post
rly expensive.... no one would ever upgrade it unless they got 6 core items and have 10000 gold lying around... t-down.
No one?
Dude, look at the bonuses and cooldown of refresh.
You are honestly telling me that, for example, Shadow Shaman will not upgrade this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominator02 View Post
Str Refresher users will never upgrade that item that the mana cost is so big and the cost is expensive that is not very strong like Dagon 5.
I so what they don't upgrade it.
It's not it's not meant for them anyway.
Intelligence Refresher Orb users will find this more than welcome on other hand though.
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Old 11-02-2010, 03:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

Hmm, the idea has potential, but your item has at least 5 (6 if HP and MP bonuses are in separate item abilities) passive effects. W3 engine supports 4 passive skills for items.
Still, I feel like it is too expensive.

No vote, but as I said: there is potential in this sugg.
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Old 11-02-2010, 03:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
No one?
Dude, look at the bonuses and cooldown of refresh.
You are honestly telling me that, for example, Shadow Shaman will not upgrade this?
hand though.
8200 gold for a 120 sec refresh??? not worth it, especially since by the a support gets this much money, everyone will have bkb, insane dmg, etc etc.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

very expensive , and t-down for the udgrade option
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:25 PM   #9
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

Just a couple of things:

- the item has too many bonuses, it needs to have less for both simplicity and codability issues. I suggest you to turn into a mana bonus (+6 int ~80 hp) to remove a meaningless bonus. The Damage also feel a bit out of place being so low compared to the other bonuses, but whatever.
- having upgrades is intended for items that doesn't scale into late-game (mana burn fixed, necro summons low hp, Dagon damage burst). A Refresher effect already scale by itself, so it doesn't make much sense from a design standpoint to have upgrades.
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:52 PM   #10
Lithary
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

I've added a new and hopefully better version of

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikut View Post
Hmm, the idea has potential, but your item has at least 5 (6 if HP and MP bonuses are in separate item abilities) passive effects. W3 engine supports 4 passive skills for items.
Still, I feel like it is too expensive.

No vote, but as I said: there is potential in this sugg.
I really want to make version of Refresher orb with lower CD, but this is currently only thing I can came up with.
Feel free to give any advice you have on your mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Rinnegan_ View Post
very expensive , and t-down for the udgrade option
I've made a new one, tell me what do you think about it.
And what's wrong with upgrade?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
Just a couple of things:

- the item has too many bonuses, it needs to have less for both simplicity and codability issues. I suggest you to turn into a mana bonus (+6 int ~80 hp) to remove a meaningless bonus. The Damage also feel a bit out of place being so low compared to the other bonuses, but whatever.
- having upgrades is intended for items that doesn't scale into late-game (mana burn fixed, necro summons low hp, Dagon damage burst). A Refresher effect already scale by itself, so it doesn't make much sense from a design standpoint to have upgrades.
Well, now I've made completely new recipe.
Tell me what do you think about it and feel free to give me any advice you have since I really want to make version of RO with lower CD.
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

Quote:
Costs 450/600/750 mana, and has a 210/165/120 second cooldown.
Almost nobody will have enough mana to cast ulti+refresh+ulti with lvl 3 so nobody would buy those upgrades.
T-Down
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

t-up
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Old 11-06-2010, 04:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

as Gheizen64 said, most items upgrade because they dont go into late game very well. i dont think an upgrade fits. second, the mana cost is too high imo.
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Old 11-06-2010, 08:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lama051 View Post
Almost nobody will have enough mana to cast ulti+refresh+ulti with lvl 3 so nobody would buy those upgrades.
T-Down
Mana cost is high because you get mana bonus from intelligence from the item.
The idea is to give you a short cooldown, but that you can't rely on only that item to have enough mana to cast all you skills, refresh 'em and then cast them again.
Also, heroes like Shadow Shaman and Enigma would buy this.
Real mana cost of the Reset Cooldowns ability is about 500 MP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by God_ii View Post
as Gheizen64 said, most items upgrade because they dont go into late game very well. i dont think an upgrade fits. second, the mana cost is too high imo.
There are heroes who depend on their skills and can't do lot without them and most of them are intelligence heroes, witch means that mana is not that big of a issue here.
Also, this item is not that well at late game due to it's long cooldown.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

wow! even an ulti skills don't have that much mana cost (450/600/750?)
T-down
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

I don't like bracer/null/band thing. They did good removing that band from EB and I hope they don't insert them in any other receipes...their just low tier items that should be sold in late-game, just my opinion.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:30 AM   #17
Lithary
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by delapan View Post
wow! even an ulti skills don't have that much mana cost (450/600/750?)
T-down
I sad to judge on concept, not number, I can fix those! -.-
Still, I will decrease mana cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorCrime View Post
I don't like bracer/null/band thing. They did good removing that band from EB and I hope they don't insert them in any other receipes...their just low tier items that should be sold in late-game, just my opinion.
But we have Null Talisman as part of Dagon now, witch means that rule about them being low tier items that need to be sold later is not valid.
Items like Wand, Shadow Urn and PMS are early game items that need to be sold later if you ask me, but not those 3.
And still, that rule about Wand, SU and PMS is not absolute and may be broken in future.
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:42 PM   #18
Lithary
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

Bump!
Added an another version of Refresher Orb remake!
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

I like lvl 1 of suggestion nr2 but I still won't upgrade it to further lvl's. I'd rather buy some other items instead of upgrading it. For 3k gold you will reduce 1 and a half minute of it's cd. For example, you cast ulti, than refresh, let's say you wiped them out, until they are revived you will allready almost have your ulti ready, so I don't think you really need lower cd. I think this item shouldn't be upgradable, t-up on reducing the price anyway.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

Ok, from conceptional side, look on how many heroes want's to use this? Like 20, nearly all from INT taverns because of stat synergy and mana issues. And how many INT based heroes are usually farming enough to get so expensive items? Maybe Obsidian, QoP, Necrolyte and some more (Pugna, because of imbaness of ward :-D). And these heroes usually have better items to get and Refresher stills unused. And I don't think this is the best way to fix that.

Though, there is some feel of good idea, so with some tweaks, it may work.
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Old 11-16-2010, 03:21 PM   #21
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorCrime View Post
I like lvl 1 of suggestion nr2 but I still won't upgrade it to further lvl's. I'd rather buy some other items instead of upgrading it. For 3k gold you will reduce 1 and a half minute of it's cd. For example, you cast ulti, than refresh, let's say you wiped them out, until they are revived you will allready almost have your ulti ready, so I don't think you really need lower cd. I think this item shouldn't be upgradable, t-up on reducing the price anyway.
Not true.
Longest revive time is 90 seconds and cooldown of Reset Cooldowns ability is 210 seconds.
This could actually be very useful upgrade to Refresher Orb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazy View Post
Ok, from conceptional side, look on how many heroes want's to use this? Like 20, nearly all from INT taverns because of stat synergy and mana issues. And how many INT based heroes are usually farming enough to get so expensive items? Maybe Obsidian, QoP, Necrolyte and some more (Pugna, because of imbaness of ward :-D). And these heroes usually have better items to get and Refresher stills unused. And I don't think this is the best way to fix that.

Though, there is some feel of good idea, so with some tweaks, it may work.
You can gain gold by killing heroes and destroying tower, so actually lot of heroes can get enough gold for it.
Also, Pugna doesn't need RO.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

I don't like the Version 1 because upgrading it will only reduce its cooldown, and increase mana cost.
There should be more reasons for people to upgrade such a big item
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

T-down...

Even if you have a large mana pool, 600 mana is too much, and 120 CD is too much.
Nobody uses refresher anyways... except pub Zeus, and Warlock.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:34 PM   #24
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Default Re: Refresher Orb [Remake]

I totally forgot about this suggestion and forgot to work on it.
Ugh, I think I'll try to think of something better, but now I have other stuff I work on so this will have to wait.
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