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Old 11-09-2010, 11:50 PM   #1
Lithary
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Lightbulb Alchemist's Ring


I got inspired to make this item after seeing Poor Man's Boots idea made by ALEXALEX303 and decided to make a ring version of it.
Reason is because a lot of people complained there that there are enough boots in game.
However, I find concept and idea to be awesome, so I've decided to make a ring version of it and by doing that make use of two underused items called Ring of Protection and Mantle of Intelligence.

Also, IT SUCKS TO SUPPORT!
Being everyone's ward-bitch, bringing slippers and morning paper to your carry like a good boy/girl and such while not being allowed to take anything for yourself (unless you want a chat crap-storm aimed at you)... yeah, it sucks.
This item will make supporting a more pleasant role.

Alchemist's Ring




- Description -

A ring which contains a small Philosopher's Stone able of turning other materials into gold.

- Fun Description -

Gold - everyone needs it!

- Components -


Ring of Protection (175 gold)


Mantle of Intelligence (150 gold)


Mantle of Intelligence (150 gold)


Alchemist's Ring recipe (225 gold)

Total:
700 gold

- Bonuses -

+2 armor
+6 to intelligence

-Chrysopoeia Aura (passive aura)-

• Every time an enemy unit dies within 1200 AoE around the wielder it grants 15 gold (60 for heroes and buildings) to it's owner.
• Item owner won't get any gold from this item if (s)he delivers the last hit to either hero, building or creep, or if they get denied.
• The aura is silenced for 10 seconds in case the owner delivers the last hit.


-Changelog:
- 27th of November, 2010:
• Buffed Chrysopoeia Aura (from 1-5/10-50 to 1-10/10-100 bonus gold) of 2nd Version of the item.

- 25th of May, 2013:
• Remade item so it's exclusively a support item.

- 14th of June, 2013:
• The aura now gets silenced if the owner delivers the last hit (this is to make this item support exclusive like it should be and remove possible abuses).


There.
This item is perfect for supporters who simply wish to assist other players, but still get some coin.
Just don't forget to judge on concept and not on numbers, but warn me if numbers could use fixing.
Also, if you have any questions, ask!


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Last edited by Lithary; 06-14-2013 at 03:41 PM.
Old 11-10-2010, 03:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

I think that this ability, a copy of Poor man's boots, should be part of Hand of Midas a passive, to make midas the complete Gold based item.

T-Up definitely on the concept.
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Old 11-10-2010, 04:09 AM   #3
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

why that chronomatugricanomagicsalshislashi name? why not a simple gold aura?

Any way i like them both
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:55 AM   #4
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

T-UP! Easy buildup, probably will be bought a lot as an early item if implemented haha
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Old 11-12-2010, 10:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEBnaman View Post
I think that this ability, a copy of Poor man's boots, should be part of Hand of Midas a passive, to make midas the complete Gold based item.

T-Up definitely on the concept.
Maybe only in case this item becomes a part of HoM recipe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cp14 View Post
why that chronomatugricanomagicsalshislashi name? why not a simple gold aura?

Any way i like them both
Here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTjen View Post
T-UP! Easy buildup, probably will be bought a lot as an early item if implemented haha
Thanks for support. =]
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Old 11-13-2010, 06:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

T-Up on concept. Mb add this item and/or implent this concept to hand of midas... gj (never thought i will said this to u)
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Old 11-16-2010, 03:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by AucT View Post
T-Up on concept. Mb add this item and/or implent this concept to hand of midas... gj (never thought i will said this to u)
Thank you, I guess, lol.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Bump baby, bump!
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:41 AM   #9
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

How have I managed to not post here O_o I like both the items, they give poor old Midas a use and the items seem relatively well balanced.
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Old 11-26-2010, 06:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

have you tested how much gold can this add up to in the span of a 30 minute game?
you have to make it balanced with hand of midas
my first thought was that this was really really good (as in .. imba maybe) and that i would get it on every hero)

the 2nd version of it is definitely a lot better than the first, 2 circlets and RoP is just too good, everyone would make it. the 2 mantles are a lot more balanced because they will make this uncommon item more usable, they are also more situational (not every hero would buy them) and it fits the alchemist-philosopher stone thing a lot more.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

T-Up man, but the question is how do we know that its gona be put in the game, I mean is beating around the bush all we get from suggestions lol, or icefrogs sees em?
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Old 11-27-2010, 02:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar0 View Post
have you tested how much gold can this add up to in the span of a 30 minute game?
you have to make it balanced with hand of midas
my first thought was that this was really really good (as in .. imba maybe) and that i would get it on every hero)

the 2nd version of it is definitely a lot better than the first, 2 circlets and RoP is just too good, everyone would make it. the 2 mantles are a lot more balanced because they will make this uncommon item more usable, they are also more situational (not every hero would buy them) and it fits the alchemist-philosopher stone thing a lot more.
Well, in perfect case scenario (in witch you gain 5 gold for every creep and get every creep in your lane dies in AOE of aura) you will gain 40 (5x8) gold every 30 seconds.
In 100 seconds (cooldown of HoM) you will gain 93 extra gold, while, with average use of HoM you will gain about 250 gold in that period of time.
I think that that's balanced.
Hmmm, actually, I think that this item could use a buff (at least MoI version could use it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenienteMani View Post
T-Up man, but the question is how do we know that its gona be put in the game, I mean is beating around the bush all we get from suggestions lol, or icefrogs sees em?
I think that it could get into DotA if it gets enough positive feedback and is proven to be something that DotA could actually have use from it.
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Wait...you used to have two items in this thread. What happened to the second one?
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Old 11-28-2010, 04:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Juggernaut™ View Post
Wait...you used to have two items in this thread. What happened to the second one?
I had that thread closed since I planed to work on both items more.
Well, it didn't took long for Alchemist's Ring, but I think that I will have to work a lot more on the Philosopher's Stone.
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Old 11-28-2010, 05:24 PM   #15
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

I like the idea of the item, plus ring needed a new recipe since Arcane ring was removed.

My only problems are aesthetic ones. First, the name of the passive, it is far too complicated for me to imagine it in dota under that name. I also dislike the icon.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florburz View Post
I like the idea of the item, plus ring needed a new recipe since Arcane ring was removed.

My only problems are aesthetic ones. First, the name of the passive, it is far too complicated for me to imagine it in dota under that name. I also dislike the icon.
I've named it like that since since Chrysopoeia is in alchemy the term for transmuting other materials (especially metals) into gold (one of the abilities from the Philosopher's Stone).
Also, ring is golden with a red rock in it witch represents the idea of the ring very well (golden for gold and red for Philosopher's Stone).
Red stuff around it is suppose to represent aura of the ring.
I can't think of more fitting icon for this item than suggested one.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:18 AM   #17
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

We don't need another midas.

The whole problem is that an item like this will be imbalanced, either too strong, or too weak. In fact, pretty much anything having to do with gold like this will be either too strong or too weak. Alchemist for example was built to take full advantage of his gold skill, and has shit stats to compensate for it, yet it is still pretty weak and skippable unless you plan to try and capitalize on that. The problem is, that on a normal hero, free money is incredibly imbalanced. An AM with this and battle fury would be making tons of money in the creep camps, while some heroes would be offended if someone gave it to them as a free gift.(obvious exaggeration.) Midas is bad because no matter what, the farm is always increased by the same amount, not allowing farmers to really capitalize on it, and not really appealing to anyone else.

So basically, it just won't work.

Also, it doesn't matter what caewgathrthdad means, it's not a good name. And the icon is super blurry and dirty looking.
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:00 AM   #18
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEBnaman View Post
I think that this ability, a copy of Poor man's boots, should be part of Hand of Midas a passive, to make midas the complete Gold based item.

T-Up definitely on the concept.
definitely T-UP on the concept too.
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:24 AM   #19
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

I actually, to tell the truth, prefer the first version. It's more useful for more heroes and therefore would be a better item because it gives to all stats, not just intelligence.
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:18 AM   #20
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by uo111 View Post
We don't need another midas.
Why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uo111 View Post
The whole problem is that an item like this will be imbalanced, either too strong, or too weak. In fact, pretty much anything having to do with gold like this will be either too strong or too weak. Alchemist for example was built to take full advantage of his gold skill, and has shit stats to compensate for it, yet it is still pretty weak and skippable unless you plan to try and capitalize on that. The problem is, that on a normal hero, free money is incredibly imbalanced. An AM with this and battle fury would be making tons of money in the creep camps, while some heroes would be offended if someone gave it to them as a free gift.(obvious exaggeration.) Midas is bad because no matter what, the farm is always increased by the same amount, not allowing farmers to really capitalize on it, and not really appealing to anyone else.

So basically, it just won't work.
But I've checked numbers and they seem pretty fine and balanced to me.
I really don't understand why do you think that this item is imba.
Maybe it could still use few minor tweaks, but it is pretty well balanced in my opinion.
Especially 2nd version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uo111 View Post
Also, it doesn't matter what caewgathrthdad means, it's not a good name.
Well I think that it's great.
Only because it is a bit more complicated it doesn't mean it's bad.
Still, why give it some lame and unimaginative name, while I can give it a great name with great meaning and reference.
Also, it will probably get a nickname in case it gets in DotA so there is no problem if it's original name is a bit more complicated.
Btw, I'm dyslexic as hell.
If I don't have problem with that complicated name, I don't think that other people should too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uo111 View Post
And the icon is super blurry and dirty looking.
True that it might need editing, but it is still great icon.
Also, it's quality is still much better than lot of item icons in DotA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The ][nquisitor View Post
I actually, to tell the truth, prefer the first version. It's more useful for more heroes and therefore would be a better item because it gives to all stats, not just intelligence.
Well, now score is 1.5:1 for intelligence version (my vote is worth 0.5 ).
In order for 1st Version to take lead it needs to get one more vote.
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Last edited by Lithary; 12-01-2010 at 08:40 AM.
Old 12-01-2010, 08:20 AM   #21
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

@uo111: "In alchemy, the term chrysopoeia means transmutation into gold (from the Greek khrusōn, gold, and poiēin, to make), although it is also symbolically used to indicate the philosopher's stone as the completion of the Great Work."

So there.

Also, WTF ARE YOU SMOKING? This item? Imba? Jeez that must be some pretty strong Pot you have there...

However I must question your wisdom on grants 50 gold when the OWNER dies, Lithary...
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by The ][nquisitor View Post
@uo111: "In alchemy, the term chrysopoeia means transmutation into gold (from the Greek khrusōn, gold, and poiēin, to make), although it is also symbolically used to indicate the philosopher's stone as the completion of the Great Work."

So there.

Also, WTF ARE YOU SMOKING? This item? Imba? Jeez that must be some pretty strong Pot you have there...

However I must question your wisdom on grants 50 gold when the OWNER dies, Lithary...
I kinda wanted it to be able to reduce gold lost upon death.
Still, I'm not that sure about that and would like to see what people think about it.
If it proves to be a bad idea, I will remove it of course.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:38 AM   #23
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Ok. Well it's most certainly NOT too strong. I also do think that the second version isn't as good as the first one because, as I've said, it restricts the clientele of this item too much. The first version gives all stats which makes it a much more appealing item to more heroes IMO. Mantle needs another use, but I don't think this item is it.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:02 AM   #24
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

It's not strong, it's much to weak currently. Imbalanced just means not balanced, not necessarily to strong.

It's exactly like midas in that it will never be just right. It will always either too weak or too strong.

I did read what the name meant. It just doesn't matter. It's impossible to pronounce, and it's not clever, or intriguing, really it's just annoying. Like you are trying to show how smart you are with an unnecessarily complicated word that means absolutely nothing today, regardless of what it meant hundreds of years ago.
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:01 AM   #25
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

I find it easy to pronounce actually...

I also think it needs a slight buff for it to be just right. From 1-5 gold per death to 3-8 I think would be great.

"A ring which contains a small Philosopher's Stone which is able to turn other materials into gold."

I'd say change this to:

"A ring which contains a shard of the Philosopher's Stone which, able to turn other materials into gold."
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:14 AM   #26
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

The gold aura is way overpowered. Assuming you last-hit every single creep, you still get around 20% extra gold. Way too overpowered.
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:57 AM   #27
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

^Actually it's more like 12%...you get about 20 odd gold from megacreeps. Normal creeps give about twice that. And that's not OP IMO, since you've had to buy the thing in the first place lol.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:12 AM   #28
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by The ][nquisitor View Post
Ok. Well it's most certainly NOT too strong. I also do think that the second version isn't as good as the first one because, as I've said, it restricts the clientele of this item too much. The first version gives all stats which makes it a much more appealing item to more heroes IMO. Mantle needs another use, but I don't think this item is it.
The idea behind the intelligence version was to balance bonus gold gained since lot of people could think that all stat booster with gold gaining ability could be too much.
Intelligence is least wanted attribute (at least in this small amounts) and by giving it a stronger effect it could make people actually buy it.
I couldn't think of a better effect to go with early intelligence booster.
Still, there are two versions with a reason, so if it proves that all stat version is better, then I'll label it as mostly wanted one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uo111 View Post
I did read what the name meant. It just doesn't matter. It's impossible to pronounce, and it's not clever, or intriguing, really it's just annoying. Like you are trying to show how smart you are with an unnecessarily complicated word that means absolutely nothing today, regardless of what it meant hundreds of years ago.
Sorry dude, but this statement is kinda ignorant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The ][nquisitor View Post
"A ring which contains a small Philosopher's Stone which is able to turn other materials into gold."

I'd say change this to:

"A ring which contains a shard of the Philosopher's Stone which, able to turn other materials into gold."
The idea is that it has a small Philosopher's Stone in it witch is a prototype of a real thing, but this could also work.
I'll put it as an alternative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The ][nquisitor View Post
I find it easy to pronounce actually...

I also think it needs a slight buff for it to be just right. From 1-5 gold per death to 3-8 I think would be great.
Will still think about it since I get comments like this so I actually don't know should I buff it, nerf it, or keep it as it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qoou View Post
The gold aura is way overpowered. Assuming you last-hit every single creep, you still get around 20% extra gold. Way too overpowered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uo111 View Post
It's not strong, it's much to weak currently. Imbalanced just means not balanced, not necessarily to strong.

It's exactly like midas in that it will never be just right. It will always either too weak or too strong.
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:00 AM   #29
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Btw, scrap my request to buff it to 3-8, 2-6 is a better buff. Also, the Circlet version is perfectly balanced IMO, because you can't buy any other items with it. There is nothing you can buy with 33 gold, hence if you want the most benefit from this item, you'd need to be buy it upfront, and that leaves you vulnerable to harass because you have no kind of regen.

Also, it's pronounced "cry-soap-ia" amirite?
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Old 12-06-2010, 06:40 AM   #30
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
Sorry dude, but this statement is kinda ignorant.
I'm not really sure how that's ignorant.

I'm just stating my opinion. It doesn't matter whether or not you change it. I'm simply saying most people would not appreciate it.

Quote:
The gold aura is way overpowered. Assuming you last-hit every single creep, you still get around 20% extra gold. Way too overpowered.
It's not necessary to last hit the creep to get the gold.

For 1-5 gold it would give an average of 3 gold per creep.
For 1-10 gold it would give an average of 5.5 gold per creep.

It would take 257 creeps to pay off the all stats ring.
It would take 128 creeps to pay off the int ring.

Just some food for thought.
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Old 12-23-2010, 10:52 AM   #31
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by uo111 View Post
I'm not really sure how that's ignorant.

I'm just stating my opinion. It doesn't matter whether or not you change it. I'm simply saying most people would not appreciate it.
Even if I call it Glrlejgfwsdfporegbdj6iu3502rghdrfghrg5 I don't think that it would be a problem since people find nicknames for everything.
Still, this name is not that complicated and fits skill perfectly.
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:12 AM   #32
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:12 AM   #33
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

I will T-up this just so that this will be part of Midas Recipe.
Midas would be like Gloves of Haste (500), this ring v1 (770) and recipe (630).

It also makes sense. You overused the ring and it turned your hand into gold and granted you the ability to turn things you touch int gold. :P

T-up
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:26 AM   #34
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

I like this one...but I don't really know...Midas gives higher amount of gold periodicly and this one gives smaller amounts nearly always so which one's better I don't know...
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:41 PM   #35
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring


Well, that's kinda the point you know.
If there was a clear winner then there would be no point in having those two items at the same time.
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:35 PM   #36
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Well, I like the concept, and the name is fine...
But, the bump here is epic.

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Old 02-03-2011, 09:25 PM   #37
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loup View Post
Well, I like the concept, and the name is fine...
But, the bump here is epic.

T-Up!
Katz rulez!
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Old 02-04-2011, 11:38 AM   #38
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Does it stuck with Goblin's Greed? Well this item should be part of Hand of Midas, so it could live again. I like it.
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:04 PM   #39
Lithary
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

Quote:
Originally Posted by l0r4k View Post
Does it stuck with Goblin's Greed? Well this item should be part of Hand of Midas, so it could live again. I like it.
Well it should, but I plan to give it a balance tweak so it doesn't end up that your creep kills give you more gold than your hero kills.
One way is simply to make Alchemist not be able to wear it, but that would be kinda lame since it's Alchemist's Ring after all.
Still, I'm not sure if that extra gold would make his GG that imba, but will still think about it.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: Alchemist's Ring

T-Ultra Up
i like this concept
but when it will be realize?
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