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Old 11-14-2010, 01:29 PM   #1
fireblaze762
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Default Sniper item build:


I have some small questions regarding snipers item build.
Assume I am playing as the teams main carry:

1. Should I rush manta after my treads and RoB?

2. Is Lothars are good item on Sniper?

3. After Manta, what should I get ?

4. Is Etheral blade a good choice?

5. What orb should I get? I normally opt for HotD->Skadi->satanic. Is this a good choice?

I normally go
RoB->Agi treads->(wand)->Manta->EB->hotd->Butter->Skadi->satanic.
Thanks for the help.
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: Sniper item build:
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Whenever you find yourself asking if items are good, just try them. If lothar works well on sniper at your level of play, then get it, if not, then don't.

If you're asking if lothar is ok on him in pubs, it is. If you're asking if it's good in higher level play, it's OK but nothing spectacular, and you'll be doing far more DPS with manta.

Butterfly has awesome synergy with manta and also works great on sniper. BKB is situational, but you may be required to get it versus powerful blink initiators. You may want lifesteal at some point if your team is going on the offensive, as random AoE abilities to eat at him otherwise. After manta + butter + 3rd item, crit should be useful.
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:56 PM   #3
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Try Phase->Wand->Yasha->HotD->Manta->Butterfly->Skadi>Satanic

1. It's recommended to get manta as fast as you can once you get your boots unless you can go AFK farming for at least 30 minutes.

2. What he said.

3. Butterfly or some lifesteal item (Usually HotD) if you don't have one yet. But it also depends on the situation.

4. If your team has a lot of nukers and another non-bkb'ed dpser on the enemy team, you can try it.

5. It's a fine choice, but you can also go Mjollnir and Skadi, or also try Desolator if you want to kill the supports fast. Purgestick is also viable if you need to counter someone and/or need the slow.
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:33 PM   #4
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never tried RoB on sniper, doesn't sound too bad, will give it a shot

is manta still good after its nerf? Can't seem to spam it on every encounter anymore. Feels like I should opt for more mobility and/or raw damage.
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: Sniper item build:
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nah manta is still good, people are overreacting. Treads RoB manta bfly (throw in a bkb if needed ) works good.
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:40 PM   #6
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MoM is good choice, tho.
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: Sniper item build:
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free protip, phaseboots are awesome. the dps is nearly the same as with treads (1400 phase boots give the same +24 damage as a 1400 claymore does. and they're also your boots.)

hitting people from over 9000 range away and still being able to outrun them is epic.
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsheep View Post
free protip, phaseboots are awesome. the dps is nearly the same as with treads (1400 phase boots give the same +24 damage as a 1400 claymore does. and they're also your boots.)

hitting people from over 9000 range away and still being able to outrun them is epic.
You're forgetting the massed Furies for 1337 damage and regen.

That said BF is still pretty darn awesome on him and Windrunner to a greater extent.

and Medusa...haters
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:05 PM   #9
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MoM is good choice, tho.
no it's horrible 90 % of the time.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:08 PM   #10
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no it's horrible 90 % of the time.
Experimental build. Luv it on pubs.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beard View Post
never tried RoB on sniper, doesn't sound too bad, will give it a shot

is manta still good after its nerf? Can't seem to spam it on every encounter anymore. Feels like I should opt for more mobility and/or raw damage.
Rob is amazing. +6 damage for last hitting is great, while the 0.65 mana regen is nice for spamming shrapnel. The armour is useful as well.

Manta's stats are just incredibly good on Sniper. +agi for damage, +str for hp, +int for shrapnel/ulti+AS for more headshot proc, and the movement speed is very useful.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:43 PM   #12
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desolator, when I see a sniper with deso treads I run the other direction.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:50 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by knifeman View Post
desolator, when I see a sniper with deso treads I run the other direction.
Lolz, one thing I hate about deso on Kardel is that changes your attacks visually. Same with Lifesteal.

Edit: typing mistakes.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireblaze762 View Post
I have some small questions regarding snipers item build.
Assume I am playing as the teams main carry:

1. Should I rush manta after my treads and RoB?

2. Is Lothars are good item on Sniper?

3. After Manta, what should I get ?

4. Is Etheral blade a good choice?

5. What orb should I get? I normally opt for HotD->Skadi->satanic. Is this a good choice?

I normally go
RoB->Agi treads->(wand)->Manta->EB->hotd->Butter->Skadi->satanic.
Thanks for the help.
1. I think manta is no longer the best idea since the nerf. It certainly can work, but there are probably better options.

2. It can be very good on him, but at the same time it can be rather sub par. It depends on what and who you are playing against.

3. Butter/Cry/EB/BKB are all perfectly viable options

4. EB is a very strong item, however getting it means you need to carefully plan your build so you can still do enough DPS mid-late game.

5. HOTD tends to be the best for him. His passive has diminishing returns with most other orbs in the game.

Treads
PMS
1-2 bands
HOTD
Choice of first lux (Lothar, BKB, EB, Manta)
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Sniper item build:
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Treads, Blink (Lothars is fine in Pubs), Manta, Deso, BFly, Buriza.

/thread
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:29 PM   #16
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Core should be treads / manta / butterfly / demon edge ( either MKB or Buriza ). Your choice on orbs, lifesteal or deso ( maybe skadi with lifesteal )
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:47 PM   #17
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Eh, I've seen Ethereal Blade wreck a pub game. Ethereal Blast + Assassinate is just brutal once the enemy's health is down to 50-60% hp.

Personally, I don't like getting Lothars and prefer Manta on Sniper because it only helps him with escaping and running away, while Manta provides some improved HP/MP, better move speed and attack speed, and Manta's images actually contribute to team fights rather than having a Sniper WW because he's afraid of dying.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FightF4te View Post
Treads, Blink (Lothars is fine in Pubs), Manta, Deso, BFly, Buriza.

/thread
honestly, ive read this like a thousand times now but i have NEVER EVER seen a sniper using blink in ANY level of play. i find it hilarious that u would say lothars is fine in pubs, since actually i cant imagine blink working outside of pubs (and even in pubs id imagine its quite hard to win with that kind of build). this has got to be the biggest wannabe-pro theory-crafted build in the history of dota bc this one actually is pure bullshit in practice. why would u want blink? the hero in question has rather low dps (for the first half of the game anyway), hp and his abilities have a range of over 9k, same goes for his regular attack. why, oh why dear lord would u get a fucking blink dagger on this kind of hero? for initiating? look my sig. for escaping? dear lord, blink for escape reasons is like really dumb unless youre playing ppl way under your skill-lvl or puck. if u wanna survive, you buff your hp/ms and/or get immunity/lifesteal. lothars is decent on sniper because the MS and invis can really help with staying alive, the backstab can be dealt from save distance and thats it.
if u wanna buff his offensive, then GET FREAKING DPS ITEMS INSTEAD AND LEARN TO POSITION YOURSELF FOR ASSASINATE WITHOUT DAGGER, KTHXBYE
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I'm telling you, blink+shrapnel works and it has no channeling time unlike epicenter so sniper is a better initiator than SK.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:27 PM   #19
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Your item build should depend on what type of game your in (are you against a lot of magic attacks? are you against a lot of carries? etc).
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireblaze762 View Post
I have some small questions regarding snipers item build.
Assume I am playing as the teams main carry:

1. Should I rush manta after my treads and RoB?

2. Is Lothars are good item on Sniper?

3. After Manta, what should I get ?

4. Is Etheral blade a good choice?

5. What orb should I get? I normally opt for HotD->Skadi->satanic. Is this a good choice?

I normally go
RoB->Agi treads->(wand)->Manta->EB->hotd->Butter->Skadi->satanic.
Thanks for the help.
1. No, Manta is ok with him but its not the be-all-end-all.

2. No, but Sniper dies very easily in ganks so more often then not you will have no choice but to buy an escape mech and the most common is lothars.

3. Anything AGI-DPS related, since that is what you are. Butter, Satanic etc.

4. Yes, the AGI bonus compliments him, also assassinating someone in etheral is nice.

5. That is a great choice. Alternatively you could go Skadi+lifesteal since it is ranged. This is my preferred choice for orbs on Sniper.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
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if u wanna survive, you buff your hp/ms and/or get immunity/lifesteal. lothars is decent on sniper because the MS and invis can really help with staying alive, the backstab can be dealt from save distance and thats it.
if u wanna buff his offensive, then GET FREAKING DPS ITEMS INSTEAD AND LEARN TO POSITION YOURSELF FOR ASSASINATE WITHOUT DAGGER, KTHXBYE
What, so Blink can't help you stay alive? Why do people get Dagger on Lion & Lina, to escape and for mobility reasons. They're not going to initiate with them. Same for N'aix, he uses his Blink for mobility and offensive positioning.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:33 PM   #21
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diffuasal blade works quite nice on sniper when you get mana , orchid is optional (if you want ot spam 1st skill and ult then definetely go for orchid) also the + 20% amplified damage with silance is very nice
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
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What, so Blink can't help you stay alive? Why do people get Dagger on Lion & Lina, to escape and for mobility reasons. They're not going to initiate with them. Same for N'aix, he uses his Blink for mobility and offensive positioning.
ofc it can help u stay alive, but thats not the reason to get blink since like 20 versions bc its fucking retarded to get blink for that sole reason, id rather get a forcestaff for that. what does your blink-sniper do when ES jumps into his face? or plain fissures u from fog so his allies can proceed to rape u? honestly, it might be a fun build to stomp noobs and feel megapro, else its just bad bc youre gonna lack in other, important areas.
comparing naix with blink to sniper with blink is just megafail really, naix is fucking melee, deals good dmg even without a lot of gear and has a built in BKB. lion and lina? lion and lina dont have to worry about their dps for christs sake, they get their blinks for surprise buttsecks and to get the most out of their AoEs. ever seen someone get blink on drow? what? not? weird, her dps aint that bad with just treads and some bands, and her range is pretty sick too.. well i guess everyones got it all wrong, blink rush is the way to go on both sniper and drow, aintthatrite?
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I'm telling you, blink+shrapnel works and it has no channeling time unlike epicenter so sniper is a better initiator than SK.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:07 PM   #23
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no one els gets a soul ring on sniper ?

get it b4 lvl 6 solo mid and u can force out anyone..and either push or defend your tower against anyone...

spam snipe from max range and eat a tango...
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:16 PM   #24
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no one els gets a soul ring on sniper ?

get it b4 lvl 6 solo mid and u can force out anyone..and either push or defend your tower against anyone...

spam snipe from max range and eat a tango...
I've used it before. It's great if there's actually someone farming against you in a lane, as the assassinate spam damage is absurd. But sniper has survival issues, and needs to start getting DPS at some point too, so spending gold on regen does set you back and can be risky.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
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What, so Blink can't help you stay alive? Why do people get Dagger on Lion & Lina, to escape and for mobility reasons. They're not going to initiate with them. Same for N'aix, he uses his Blink for mobility and offensive positioning.
Lol what? Lion & Lina don't use Blink to initiate? This is news to me. And then you say same for N'aix, but say the opposite? I would like to know what kind of drugs you're on. All three heroes use Blink for offensive positioning. Blink as an escape is secondary. It could work for Sniper the same way it works for every hero, but there's really tons of better items to spend 2k gold on.

Soul Ring can be pretty funny in pubs for spamming Assassinate. But in competitive games you can usually ask for a gank and your team will come remove that pesky opponent for you. RoB should really be enough for most of your mana regen needs. I see many people completely overdoing it with Perseverence or even Guinsoo. At the very most you should buy a Bottle for burst regen purposes.

Phase is actually pretty decent on Sniper and is useful for chasing and escaping. Since positioning is key for Sniper, the burst MS is really strong. MoM is probably a bad idea, but Sniper is one of those heroes where it's not a complete fail. You should essentially be going glass cannon, so if played ideally, you won't take too much damage in a teamfight anyway. If they reach you, you're dead either way. MoM can be a good burst of DPS. Lastly, EB just seems wrong. I'm not trying to hate on the item, but on Sniper it just doesn't fit. He should be standing in the back of a fight providing constant DPS+Headshots, not trying to instagib opponents.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:12 PM   #26
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Serious game = 2x wraith RoB phase(basic neccessity items) > manta bfly bkb(items to aim for) > EoS satanic divine rapier(luxury)
Situational item = MKB

If few hard disablers on other team (super situational pub build) = RoB phase divine rapier hotd solo rosh for aegis, ALWAYS come in team battles late and win game >9000 distance away, I have done this twice this month and won np

Lothars is bad as it is easily countered and gives little damage for it's price. It doesn't take a genius to buy dusts or wards eventually and nowadays it's hard to play a pub game with people not buying true sight. A manta + phase already gives him more survivability with just the ms bonus alone. Play the hero properly instead of the easy way out to use him to his full potential.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:27 PM   #27
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diffuasal blade works quite nice on sniper when you get mana , orchid is optional (if you want ot spam 1st skill and ult then definetely go for orchid) also the + 20% amplified damage with silance is very nice
While I don't deny diffusal is pretty good on sniper, orchid is totally out of place on him. He already has lolwatthef int gain for an agi hero so the mana regen is pure overkill. Damage wise it doesn't add enough and 20 int is wasted. Only good thing about it is the silence though it's better to have on other orchid carriers. The item is pretty decent but overall it just delays sniper's other items that are essential to make him that feared badass carry.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:31 PM   #28
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start with a RoP, 3branch and a pack of tango - salve

then buy boots > complete basi with sobi > treads > ultimate orb/yasha > yasha/ultimate orb > bkb > butter > rapier/satanic
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawumm
honestly, it might be a fun build to stomp noobs
Quote:
Originally Posted by midgtwitafidgt View Post
Blink as an escape is secondary. It could work for Sniper the same way it works for every hero, but there's really tons of better items to spend 2k gold on.
There you go. Mobility. The problem with Lothar's is that a Gem or Dust will counter it. Why do these heroes bother with these escape mechanisms then? Perhaps we shall skip both, and move onto Manta.

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Old 11-14-2010, 10:00 PM   #30
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personally, if you want lulz mobility and hate lothars, forcestaff > blink

spams extra shrapnel while sliding away from tryhard gankers, extra bits of dps, easy buildup for the same price of dagger. Feels good man.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:07 PM   #31
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Leave it at that then. Force Staff. lol.

I'm starting to think that you could possibly SKIP Blink/Lothars/Force... Would that be a good idea?
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:12 PM   #32
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I need mobility since I don't have maphack levels of map awareness, and can't slip out of combat before they're almost in my face.

But if you have maphacking teammates like rexxar, or opponents that keep walking into wards, then sure, why not.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:22 PM   #33
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alot of ideas have been suggested and i havent seen anyone recommend bkb (against storm no bkb is suicide).

Snipers real strength lies in his large range and positioning is thus important. He can give initiators a hard time as they tend to have a choice between going for their team or sniper.

Theres no hard and fast rule to what you should build on him.

i would say that wand + bracer/wraith/pms/basilius (pick 1) and treads are the core. I wouldnt take any other boots as the ias and health make them a superior choice to phase. Bot can be taken late game but i prefer tp scrolls.

Movement speed items can be good on sniper, lothars is a reasonable choice but not ideal for every game.

Manta is still pretty much core on him as it compliments his pushing abilities. The nerf didnt affect sniper so much as he still has long range and can be hard to find in a hectic teamfight.

lategame luxuries include mkb, butters, buriza (if the game drags on that long)

I personally dislike orbs on him as they give away your position unlike your non-orb invis bullets). He dosent really need an orb unless the game drags on. He reaches his carry potential quite early and is a good pusher.

Ive even seen orchid being suggested - however im not a fan as it gives no hp.
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Medallion of Courage- I read this item and went, lolwut? I am lost at this, it seems like a weird type of crappy support item, I just really dont like it at all it seems HIGHLY situational, kinda like hand of midas tier, but then again I could be wrong, thats what this thread is for anyways.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:25 PM   #34
Lollypatrolly
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^Just looking at the first page for 15 seconds, I see 2 people suggesting BKB. Other than that, you're correct.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:25 PM   #35
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alot of ideas have been suggested and i havent seen anyone recommend bkb (against storm no bkb is suicide).
I've definitely thought of it. But the dwarf should stay outside the area of danger. In the case of Storm, perhaps BKB is a good idea. Or someone could just stun/silence to screw him over.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:33 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Lollypatrolly View Post
^Just looking at the first page for 15 seconds, I see 2 people suggesting BKB. Other than that, you're correct.
in fact post number 2 doh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadAimEXT
Medallion of Courage- I read this item and went, lolwut? I am lost at this, it seems like a weird type of crappy support item, I just really dont like it at all it seems HIGHLY situational, kinda like hand of midas tier, but then again I could be wrong, thats what this thread is for anyways.
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