Countering Invoker In Lane

[mitchi]

Why do you talk about a QUAS invoker. Regeneration is the cheapest thing you can get in this game. Get 2 salves, a pack of tangos, some branches, and invest in Exort.

Quas invoker gives you more hp, more regen, but how are you going to get all the last hits? You are here to farm, not to tank harassment. If you have high damage with Alacrity, he won't be coming to harass you anyway.

[nico8691]

rexxar, lanaya, sf, tinker, batrider, windrunner, enigma

[Snake]

Batrider, Broodmother, SF and OD

[^Eternity^]

Pugna. Its really simple. Decre + Blast every time invoker is in Range. Invoker is simply forced to towerhug and farm, while pugna keeps pushing the lane and runewhoring. Alacrity won't work due to decrepify + Blast.

Brood: No real AoE till level 5 means Brood will almost always outlane Invoker.

Batrider: Unless invoker goes for wex quas he will get outlaned. Bat with 5+ stacks of naplam can firefly him at level 2/3.

Windrunner: Negates his alacrity harass techniques,outruns meteor,has better attack animation, harasses well with powershot and can kill using a good shackleshot.

Luna: Gets comparable damage while having a decent nuke. With higher ms + ministun on nuke its almost impossible to run away from a misled fight. She also dominates the runes pretty well. All you need to do is fog abuse when invoker has alacrity on.

TBH playing with invoker as a solo mid before level 6 is generally like playing against a ranged rooftrellen solo mid. Both are hard to harass and could get a kill at around level 6 but are not in serious contention of actualy killing you until they get higher levels of their skills. However, its very hard to actually take them out of lane and continuous harassers with decent damage do the best at controlling them.

Also rooftrellen could be back among top mid soloes when he is unbanned. His awesome sentinels do a lot to help in this and two hits of his are pretty painful early on.

[Redeemed A.I.]

If he doesn't use quas,outnuke him and never go 1v1 (due to alacrity).
If he does use quas..fight regen with regen..that is enhantress,atropos etc..

[Val]

@Redeemed: Except he can choose what reagents to pick after he sees the enemy hero. It's like playing rocks, papers, scissors against a precog.

[Thor258]

Originally Posted by ^Eternity^

Pugna. Its really simple. Decre + Blast every time invoker is in Range. Invoker is simply forced to towerhug and farm, while pugna keeps pushing the lane and runewhoring. Alacrity won't work due to decrepify + Blast.

Brood: No real AoE till level 5 means Brood will almost always outlane Invoker.

Batrider: Unless invoker goes for wex quas he will get outlaned. Bat with 5+ stacks of naplam can firefly him at level 2/3.

Windrunner: Negates his alacrity harass techniques,outruns meteor,has better attack animation, harasses well with powershot and can kill using a good shackleshot.

Luna: Gets comparable damage while having a decent nuke. With higher ms + ministun on nuke its almost impossible to run away from a misled fight. She also dominates the runes pretty well. All you need to do is fog abuse when invoker has alacrity on.

TBH playing with invoker as a solo mid before level 6 is generally like playing against a ranged rooftrellen solo mid. Both are hard to harass and could get a kill at around level 6 but are not in serious contention of actualy killing you until they get higher levels of their skills. However, its very hard to actually take them out of lane and continuous harassers with decent damage do the best at controlling them.

Also rooftrellen could be back among top mid soloes when he is unbanned. His awesome sentinels do a lot to help in this and two hits of his are pretty painful early on.

Batrider sounds good in theory, but every time he tries to napalm, he gets two smacks of autoattack alacrity. And due to low attack range he gets a lot of harassment and wont be able to last hit. Luna has low attack range too.

Brood/Pugna sound good but aren't they usually banned?

[KuroNeko]

Originally Posted by asdfgadsfz12

nortrom/od owns invoker any time of the day O_o

Just fyi guys... invoke removes CotS.

And orb toggling (qwe) doesn't trigger last word.

[Thor258]

Originally Posted by LiquidNitrogen

Are you kidding me? Quas Invoker>>Exort Invoker at soloing. Exort invoker doesn't have any particularly helpful abilities that beat Storm. They will trade last hits and denies, and if Voker tries to harass with his cute autoattack storm remnants him, smacks him in the face, pulls him, smacks him in the face, then remnants him against and smacks him a couple times, thus sending him packing. And without a high level of Quas, regeneration is not so easy, and a Exort-centric build leaves Invoker without any HP.

Storm>>>squishies with no silence and no hard disable, and it also helps if they can't nuke very well, though Storm takes on Tinker and Zeus just fine. Invoker falls into that category, and any build with him, Storm can beat.

Bane is similar. Once he gets Bottle+Soul Ring+Level 6, he can instagib Invoker after a Brain Sap or two, and he doesn't fear harass either. If last-hits are somehow getting very difficult (Bane has high starting damage and a decent animation compared to Voker), he can always just Nightmare him and get freefarm.

Also, Broodmother>slow squishies with weak or no aoe, and early Invoker definitely falls into that category. She can kill him easily with just boots and Bite, and push to rape his ass.

Exort + alacrity gives crazy amounts of auto attack damage and can out DPS storm and last hit better. Invoker will get 2-4 hits in before storm walks in for his pull and that is a lot of damage with alacrity.
Bane will never reach level 6 due to crappy attack damage and low range. This is a high skilled invoker who will go Exort alac in this case. Bane will not be able to farm his soulring and bottle. Broodmother is usually banned.

[LiquidNitrogen]

Originally Posted by Thor258

Exort + alacrity gives crazy amounts of auto attack damage and can out DPS storm and last hit better. Invoker will get 2-4 hits in before storm walks in for his pull and that is a lot of damage with alacrity.
Bane will never reach level 6 due to crappy attack damage and low range. This is a high skilled invoker who will go Exort alac in this case. Bane will not be able to farm his soulring and bottle. Broodmother is usually banned.

Exort Wex Invoker at level 6 has what, 750 HP? Storm and Invoker trade a few hits, Storm hits him with Remnant and Vortex while taking lots of damage. Invoker is at 70%, Storm is at 20%. Storm eats up his bottle, then goes and insta-kills Invoker. Alacrity is nothing against Overload, Remnant and Vortex. Once Storm gets Invoker into a good range (it could be Invoker's maximum HP) where his combo will easily take him out Invoker doesn't stand a chance.

Brood Pugna Doom are the regular counters to everything, but are all usually banned.

And trust me, Bane will get to level 6 and be able to get his ring+bottle in lane...as I've said if he is having some problems all he has to do is Brain Sap and Invoker is immediately at a loss unless he can somehow dish out 600 damage in a few hits, or Nightmare him. Invoker can't get all the last hits and denies.

Also, Invoker is ridiculously easy to gank. Alacrity doesn't do shit when Venge comes in with Missile and Wave, SF razes him 2-3 times/Storm rofls in/Tinker smacks him around with his combo/Windrunner hits him with Powershot+Shackle+auto

If he goes Alacrity, harass hurts him bad and he is paper. Quas is for serious playing--you can actually kill your opponents with Snap-EMP-Cyclone while getting levels as you should, Exort is just meh and will not outlane anything.

Also remember Invoker goes mid not to win it (in which case Quas is better anyways) or farm it, but to gain levels, which he needs badly.

[AzureD]

If you rely on using bottle to counter Invoker then you are in for a really bad wake up call when you fight a decent Invoker. Invoker controls the runes.

At least when I see bottle heroes in my lane I make certain he never gets his runes. I send Spirits to destroy the runes if I have to.

I have never had any problems fighting bottle heroes. This includes Pugna.

Most of the time it is not single heroes that kill me but ganks from the sides.

Although you really start to get dangerous at level 7. Before then you are kinda hard pressed to kill anyone. This is when you can use 3 spells in a row and actually solo kill some heroes.

I would not advise charging up to an Invoker in a 1v1 situation. Most people have a hard time estimating how strong Invoker is up close and personal. Unless you feel really confident and can kill him in one smooth combo. I have had many many Storm Spirits charge into me unleash their combo where I have some 20% of my hp left and they are still full and then they die in 2 seconds. Most of the time by the time I am level 6 or 7 I have about 900 hp which is usually just enough to survive most combos.

For example I sometimes purposefully let myself get hooked by Pudge early game. They can not resist. This just bring me closer to him so I can kill him. Dead in 2 seconds.

Anyway I was trying a EW build against a Lightning Revenant one game. Static link countered me pretty hard. I do not recommend an Alacrity opening against Revenant. As far as I can recall though no hero feels that threatening that can outright kick him out of the lane.

[Redeemed A.I.]

Originally Posted by Val

@Redeemed: Except he can choose what reagents to pick after he sees the enemy hero. It's like playing rocks, papers, scissors against a precog.

If you play with exort,I get a stick and any range hero,problem solved.

Generally if you pick a non quas invoker,I can stomp you anytime due to your insane lack of lane control.

If you use quas invoker,I'll need to pick those heroes I mentioned.
But don't expect anything mid-late game,as Invoker fails to damage with wex exort skillbuild and needs a good dps ally to win mid-late with quas wex.

[iinvoke]

OD, roflcopter, and BS has given me the toughest times in the past, especially roflcopter...if he hard spams that missile crap theres almost nothing you can do about it, and it's pretty tough after BS gets that PMS

other heroes like tinker and sf, I tend to think of these as equal match ups and its all skill based

[Redeemed A.I.]

Sigh* 90% of the hero pool can't counter quas Invoker in 1v1 (solo lanes).

The 10% is heroes who can regenerate as well as he does.

Anything else loses or plays passively.

[^Eternity^]

Umm a thing about alacrity invoker vs Batrider is that batrider does more damage consistently after 4-5 stacks. And invoker really is hard pressed to throw him off fireflying and preventing death with an exort/wex build.

Take into account the fact that napalm gives + 10 or more damage per stacks giving him almost a permanent alacrity after 5 stacks. Also makes your turn rate and ms much much lower leading to almost a sure kill if you are going the exort wex/exort quas way.

Again against an invoker mid, he's just a ranged rooftrellen really. You cannot actually send him out of lane not outlast hit him. But constant harassers are a pain.

---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 PM ----------

Umm a thing about alacrity invoker vs Batrider is that batrider does more damage consistently after 4-5 stacks. And invoker really is hard pressed to throw him off fireflying and preventing death with an exort/wex build.

Take into account the fact that napalm gives + 10 or more damage per stacks giving him almost a permanent alacrity after 5 stacks. Also makes your turn rate and ms much much lower leading to almost a sure kill if you are going the exort wex/exort quas way.

Again against an invoker mid, he's just a ranged rooftrellen really. You cannot actually send him out of lane not outlast hit him. But constant harassers are a pain.

[Skaloon]

batrider ownz him no doubt. batrider basicly ownz every hero with no escape mech early game

[^Eternity^]

Originally Posted by AzureD

If you rely on using bottle to counter Invoker then you are in for a really bad wake up call when you fight a decent Invoker. Invoker controls the runes.

At least when I see bottle heroes in my lane I make certain he never gets his runes. I send Spirits to destroy the runes if I have to.

I have never had any problems fighting bottle heroes. This includes Pugna.

Most of the time it is not single heroes that kill me but ganks from the sides.

Although you really start to get dangerous at level 7. Before then you are kinda hard pressed to kill anyone. This is when you can use 3 spells in a row and actually solo kill some heroes.

I would not advise charging up to an Invoker in a 1v1 situation. Most people have a hard time estimating how strong Invoker is up close and personal. Unless you feel really confident and can kill him in one smooth combo. I have had many many Storm Spirits charge into me unleash their combo where I have some 20% of my hp left and they are still full and then they die in 2 seconds. Most of the time by the time I am level 6 or 7 I have about 900 hp which is usually just enough to survive most combos.

For example I sometimes purposefully let myself get hooked by Pudge early game. They can not resist. This just bring me closer to him so I can kill him. Dead in 2 seconds.

Anyway I was trying a EW build against a Lightning Revenant one game. Static link countered me pretty hard. I do not recommend an Alacrity opening against Revenant. As far as I can recall though no hero feels that threatening that can outright kick him out of the lane.

TBH I seriously think that Pugna does not require runewhoring as much as potm/morph/etc. And seldom do people actually send forge spirits to destroy runes. You won't be getting forge till level 4 anyways and they will last for like 10 seconds then. The runewhore heroes(who actually rely on runes for solo mid control) and not heroes like SF who take runes when they push the lane and really don't require them due to cheaper nukes actually start dominating the runes from level 3 onwards. Once their first rune is taken, they get a decent advantage but they are somewhat more unreliable in decent games since both team maintain rune control with wards + surprise ganks + dewards etc.

Also forge spirits for a pure EQ invoker is the only way of lane control. I'd rather orbwalk with my spirits and last hit than destroy runes. My allies will probably make much better use of it or atleast opponent will leave the lane for a while giving me some free farm while being in the danger of being ganked.

[Redeemed A.I.]

If you have batrider it's even more easy with quas invoker.You coldsnap him and he is probably perma stunned from aggro.

He also can't tower dive.

But I'm not sure.

[^Eternity^]

Nah he won't draw aggro from creeps. Most batrider players dive when their creeps attack the tower. They don't do it mindlessly you know ^^. So coldsnap theory is just a theory. It'll proc like 2 ministuns in all that time. Not even enough for you to get away. A tornado invoker could get away though.

Also he doesn't really need to auto you. All he needs to do is burn on top of you = no aggro because he hasn't put a single attack command on you. As far as the AI sees it he's just moving towards you.

[Redeemed A.I.]

Originally Posted by ^Eternity^

Nah he won't draw aggro from creeps. Most batrider players dive when their creeps attack the tower. They don't do it mindlessly you know ^^. So coldsnap theory is just a theory. It'll proc like 2 ministuns in all that time. Not even enough for you to get away. A tornado invoker could get away though.

Also he doesn't really need to auto you. All he needs to do is burn on top of you = no aggro because he hasn't put a single attack command on you. As far as the AI sees it he's just moving towards you.

It isn't a lot of theory because I did play against batriders in league games.

Also,you forget not only your own mini stun,but also ghostwalk available at level 3.