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Old 06-12-2009, 06:10 PM   #81
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Default Suggestions Forum


seems like my nightmare comes true....

AFAIK, old posts will b replaced by the newer posts n forgotten.. this problem should b solved ASAP or else many good ideas will b abandoned as the newer posts go on...
 
Old 06-12-2009, 08:55 PM   #82
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Cool organization, brah. Makes me glad to see that the amount of effort you put into listening to the community is showing, as always!


Now, when can we realistically expect a revamp of the current organization. A couple months, frog-time?
 
Old 06-12-2009, 09:43 PM   #83
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Well looks like people are getting concerned agian about the three most unimportant aspects of implementation once agian.

Popularity
Who has the right to vote
Structured system

If what I think this looks like is going to bear fruit then I will kindly back out of suggs now...

Please please... you are all to interested in structure... Disscussion is more important than numbers so why are over half the suggestions in here talking about polls or rating and voting efforts...

Let's just be real... most of the time Ice will come here he will try something popular like he has in the past and it will suck he will rage talking about how much the system here is overly structured and people will once agian feel like Ice is not listening to others input.

Let's start this off right... it's always easier if we need to, to add in more structure.

Also someone back a ways said that people would bump to keep in on the front page... they would get warned and a bump could effectivly close the topic if we wanted to do that...
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Old 06-12-2009, 09:52 PM   #84
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i would like it if there would be "rough" ideas section

basically u would put just an idea in that section without any time/damage per lvl statistics just rough estimate of the maximum dmg or effect like stun slow etc

then if by any of before mentioned systems it is approved by members (or group that took it as their job and represent all) it would be approved to give some more details so that it can be smoothed a little by little until approved idea section which would wait for icefrog to watch and decide (best of the best section) whether it is doable... he likes it.... hates it etc

that is my view of ideas section at least :-) But rough part is actually pretty important at least for people that got lots of idea... for them modding all of them into realisation could take LOTS of time just so that ppl say it sucks or sth else :-)... so why waste time onto something that will fail when u can use it to generate more ideas or raise a potentially good idea....

every person got its own oppinion about something only the mass can say whether it is worthy :-)
 
Old 06-12-2009, 09:59 PM   #85
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jmesch I like your idea of attempting to fix issues rather then invent some magic "solve everything" wheel (or "better" dota-allstars clone). Personally I feel I already mentioned everything that I think would work to fix the problems earlier (I don't wish to repeat myself).

For people that have not read some of Ice's thoughts on Suggestions, here's a old post from dota-allstars.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceFrog
The fact is simply this, time is limited. Only so much of the limited time available can be spent on searching through the suggestions to find something that can both be implemented and actually plays out to be as fun as it looks on paper. There are some good suggestions done by you guys, but they don't always fit those 2 requirements. Furthermore it becomes much more time consuming when there is such a large volume of suggestions and only a small number actually meet those criteria. Finding them becomes a big chore. The votes in the suggestions forums are also usually inflated due to the bullying atmosphere, its very hard for someone to thumb down something due to "omg random thumb down" effect, but no one complaints about random thumb ups. Sometimes suggestions will get implemented, but will get changed or removed during play testing, this is natural. The beta testers and I spend a lot of searching for good forum hero or item ideas. Most times that someone finds a good forum suggestion that is both practical to implement and has appeal beyond the casual forum goer segment of the player base (a very small portion of the many millions that play this game) and there will be so many more people that would dislike it. The majority of the contest suggestions and other popular suggestions get fairly significant beta review and analysis time, including the recent ones. I also frequently talk with a bunch of leaders and highly active members of the suggestions community about which ideas they like, most of the time they end up not wanting them to be implemented after they give it more thought and analysis. Its easy to like something on paper because it looks new and fancy.

A lot of the stuff looks good or fun on paper, but as a game designer i cannot recklessly ignore what something would do to the game. When you sit down and analyze the impacts most of them would have on the pace, flow and long term enjoyability of the game, most of the time there becomes no reason to add it beyond being popular on the forums or to increase the appearance of change, which are not good reasons to do something. Does that mean everything that IS added is perfect? No, but they have different potentials to work within the design of the game with more tweaks down the road to perfect it.

My goal in DotA is rather simple. It is to make the best game possible for everyone, not just 1 country or 1 area of play. It is not to spend all the free time available to muddle through lots of artificially inflated ratings to find something to please the suggestions crowd. While it would be nice to gain "popularity points" with the suggestions crowd, it is not healthy for the game for that to be my focus or the priority of my time. Even various previous and current suggestions forum leaders and activists come to see this when they are involved in the process and discussion on what to add. I spend more time on trying to consider other suggestions than pretty much any game designer does. A game designer's focus should never be to win a forum popularity contest. I am trying my very best to find the middle ground and listen to all sides. But my goal at the end of the day still has to be do make the most fun sustainable game possible for all the players.

A very large amount of time is spent researching and playing with the different audiences that play this game, more than you realize. You would be very surprised about the way a lot of players in different countries think and what they need in a game in order to have a good time. I don't expect the reasons for each change to be obvious to each and every person, since everyone has a different way of looking at things and different personal tastes.

I've already been told that i spend too much time searching the forum purely for the purpose of finding something from it, i will keep trying though, but it would help if people were not discouraged from voting how they feel and if the previously mentioned criteria are given more attention. Ideas should also have more focus on "how does this affect how the game will be played" rather than a more shallow "this would be kinda cool" approach. I cannot promise that forum stuff will get implemented more than they already do, but keeping these points in mind would go a long way. Please be a little more realistic, patient and understanding that the process and focuses for adding things to a game as popular as this is not a trivial task and that not everyone will always agree with everything that is done. But things need to done for the right reasons. Whether or not your personal idea gets implemented, it always has some kind of an effect on the direction of the game and future content i can promise you that.
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Old 06-13-2009, 12:15 AM   #86
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For lack of a better place to put this, I'm going to inquire in more depth upon the nature of hero balance you (icefrog) wish to implement. I find that this is important because if we know this, we can better assess what needs changing and what doesn't.

My main question is this:

Is your goal to balance all heroes for all levels of play or to balance some heroes for certain levels of play whilst not creating major imbalances in any specific level?

For example, in Clinkz' case. He's a terrible hero for competitive play yet not so much for lower level play. However, it could be the case that this is fine, because your intent is not to have every hero viable in every level of play.

Anyone with informed insight is welcome to respond to this, but I would appreciate it if uninformed opinions should be kept to a minimum.

Yes, I'm aware you've hinted at this a few times but I feel a more concrete answer would be nice for all of us.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 12:35 AM   #87
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I would also add that any item balance guidlines/hints you can spare would be greatly appreatiated and help a lot both authors and people who wish to help get good suggestions/ideas through, as well as any ideas for this thread.

[sends IceFrog a mail to draw his attention to this thread]
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Old 06-13-2009, 03:56 AM   #88
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Cigaro idea is definutly the best
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:25 AM   #89
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I would suggest at least a few sub-forums for this Suggestion forum.
Items, New Heroes, Old Heroes.
That would help alleviate the stress on the one forum, and help organisation.

I may also write a guide to suggesting things.
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:38 AM   #90
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Erm, you could just not have a suggestions forum? That would solve all problems, entirely.
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:21 AM   #91
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^ A suggestion forum has to be well worked out. Just wait some weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Setyroth View Post
Isn't +1 to a poll and "T-up, I like it." just as useless.
Ofc it is dude, but at first page it was already discussed that admins could do something against useless one-liners. They cant do anything against Random Votes, though...
 
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:45 AM   #92
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does icefrog read all the suggestions one by one?

i hope it's a YES
 
Old 06-13-2009, 06:47 AM   #93
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^ Ofc not, he has not that much free time...

Thats why were going to make such a system.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 10:41 AM   #94
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I agree with some of what the people above said. I think community participation in the suggestion process is very important as in the end, they will be the one to be receiving the end product BUT this should be done in such a way that unnecessary and/or uneducated or moreso unthought responses are and will be greatly discouraged. I hope the system also gives more merits to votes/responses that are well supported unlike in the previous system in the DA forums.

I also agree with Cigaro's idea regarding having stages or smooth transitions in between idea creation up to recognition or implementation.

I think the idea some posts above regarding the 5-point system for mods where they rate the suggestion on how good or bad it is is also good.

People are making a lot of points and I really hope that the suggestion forums get a lot of changes compared to the previous forum.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 10:45 AM   #95
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@ Setyroth, #80

- It solves problem, and channels it to few threads, where moderators can focus it more easily.

- The problem is that DA and PD forums suffer from having too many users, thus nobody is able to follow all content in those forums.
(for example, I am able to totally follow a forum with 2k users of which 50-100 are often active, but I am unable to do it for forum of 2 mil users, and 1k active at every moment - and nobody is)

Simply, Icefrog needs a system here that would help him see/check as many suggestions he can, with as little as possible spent time.

That said, I believe that Suggestion forum needs to have some fair and simple guidelines/limitations, that would help him save time, and if it includes some calculated ratings and some limitations in the amount of threads you can comment, amount of posts you can write and so on, so be it.

- Regular forums that we know about cannot solve mass user problems, therefore we need something new.

I personally don't see a problem in implementing that voting system, as it would only require that voting is inside posting, and that "submit reply" would add both text and vote, and since it would record to database location of the vote, it would also be possible to over-ride it in some other post later on.


@ jmesch04, #83

There needs to be a system that handles it, as noone can follow what 2 million users write.

Only problem is that system needs to encourage ideas and to have efficient way how to handle them, as previous DA system was no match for what mass users had to offer.

That said, I believe that automated systems that would calculate poster ratings, and votes that would have different values per voter rating, and limited amount of thread/posts per day is one way of handling that.
(all automated, objective and fair, and not some rigid and subjective rules that previous forum had)

To add to that, specialized mods (could also be from beta-test team) should have more active roll in helping IceFrog check through suggestions, as it is no way one man job to find few good suggestions out of zillion fancy but useless ones.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 10:56 AM   #96
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I fear that the worst problem with any quantitative popularity rating in this forum would be bandwagoning, the sheep syndrome? The only good way around this that I could think of is complete feedback blackout for those who would rate on any suggestion. Ratings should not be seen on the posts by regular members so as not influence in any way how a member would rate. Now, who can see the ratings and feedbacks? Well it's up to the admin. but surely they would be those competent enough to do quality check. (The star system of Axidos could work)

Now after a suggestion is screened and found to be of good quality, enough to make it have like 70% chance of implementation or something like that, this would be the time the curtains are lifted.

I am not sure if it is a good idea but I'm just sharing my thoughts.
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Old 06-13-2009, 11:18 AM   #97
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@ Tresrosas,

- Users votes must be public from 2 reasons:

1) They can write "I don't like it", and it is the same as bad rating in the eyes of others.
(if we are talking about sheep syndrome)

2) People need to stand by their votes, and not just vote, and go away.
(if you are not ready to explain what you like/dislike, then don't vote, since it isn't contributing to anything and it just looks like random vote)


Specialist mods ratings can be private, but it is totally different story.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 11:45 AM   #98
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@ W-a-r-l-o-r-d

What I meant is total feedback blackout, neither replies nor votes could be seen,
BUT you are asked for a comment everytime you vote only that it cannot be seen on public (you can't rate without a comment)...

I don't know if it violates the essence of a forum but it's the only way I could think of. Screening is essentially done first although I would say that it will require very tedious monitoring from the moderators.

I'm in a loss for words.
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Old 06-13-2009, 12:10 PM   #99
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@ Tresrosas, #98

Very nice idea, indeed

If possible, everyone would be able to see only OP posts, his own, and admin/mod.

OP would be able to see every post, so he can address those that are directed towards improving of suggestion. (same as mods and admins)
He can quote parts that he wants to answer too/answers from, since no suggestion is perfect, and every suggestion can be improved.

This suggestion would also require that suggestions don't bump by posting, but to be sorted in chronological order.
OPs could have bump topic button for case that topic has been improved - usable once per week or so.
(this way, mods and admins would be able to check all of them, and to know which one are checked, and which aren't, and which one need to be rechecked)

And don't worry about forum essence and stuff, since nobody needs just another forum, but tool that can do its work properly.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 01:34 PM   #100
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What you both are suggestion is placing the entire decition processs on a set group of people. This basically becomes a popularity contest. As IceFrog mentioned a lot of ideas look great on paper but ruin the game. Also even his own decition can't label something 100% succesful addition to the game (testing is required), what would make you think some random people with little else but higher forum status can accomplish what he can't?

We need to filter ideas, yes, but in a objective way, not a subjective (likely biased) way. The idea of having multiple stages has been brouth a duzen times over and I don't think everyone is considering the negative consequences, just the positive ones.* Suggestion that aren't just attention hores or not easily understood won't make it with this sort of system, on the other hand suggestions that are uterly imbalanced in concept (but sound original) gets loads of attention even when their concep is fundamentally game breaking/flawed and can not be fixed with "adjusting numbers".

Take for example items that are build from already final-combination-items that should not combine any more (too many threads like this!). You can not just tweak items numbers for those, just like you can't tweak a fixed price low priced item similar to branch that would stack!


* most authors share the same ignorance in their threads; if its not positive it suddently "lost people" and dropped. God forbid some poor sheep be tempted to think about it and post something other then brainless T-up (not that there is any other kind)
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Old 06-13-2009, 03:07 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setyroth
What you both are suggestion is placing the entire decition processs on a set group of people. This basically becomes a popularity contest. As IceFrog mentioned a lot of ideas look great on paper but ruin the game. Also even his own decition can't label something 100% succesful addition to the game (testing is required), what would make you think some random people with little else but higher forum status can accomplish what he can't?

We need to filter ideas, yes, but in a objective way, not a subjective (likely biased) way. The idea of having multiple stages has been brouth a duzen times over and I don't think everyone is considering the negative consequences, just the positive ones.* Suggestion that aren't just attention hores or not easily understood won't make it with this sort of system, on the other hand suggestions that are uterly imbalanced in concept (but sound original) gets loads of attention even when their concep is fundamentally game breaking/flawed and can not be fixed with "adjusting numbers".
You misunderstood what i meant. Ofcourse votes would still count. I only suggested that the ratings and replies are hidden so as not to influence the opinions of those who have not yet reviewed the suggestion. The number of positive feedbacks as well as negative ones would always count as one of the criterias for screening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by W-a-r-l-o-r-d
This suggestion would also require that suggestions don't bump by posting, but to be sorted in chronological order.
OPs could have bump topic button for case that topic has been improved - usable once per week or so.
(this way, mods and admins would be able to check all of them, and to know which one are checked, and which aren't, and which one need to be rechecked)
I would support this kind of system. It is a fact that some suggestions do not get as much publicity as others do just for the sole reason that they are old posts and are out of the "front page". Also, bumping can be easily abused.

@Setyroth

I never had the intention of implicating the idea of others having less capability to accomplish what IceFrog can. But, there is this thing called a qualification to be considered competent in what you are task to do, which is vital to achieve quality results.

Sorry it seems I'm the one who misunderstood.
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:35 PM   #102
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Axidos' system is awesome.
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:42 PM   #103
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@ Blackout Idea: Worst idea ever... I can't speak for IceFrog but I am almost sure he would not want suggs to go in this direction as he wants people to actively discuss (in a posting/forum way) how new changes would effect the game.

@ Some tips in general: I have had a few ideas implemented, but this is mostly because in general I was non-specific about the idea... when suggesting something starting out formal is just a terrible idea... you should be starting out with hey we need a new 10-15 min farm able survivability item for STR heroes. However is should double into an item that can turn out some DMG at a cost... Volia Armlet... (I didn't make armlet, just speaking how the convo goes)

If we make an immense tier system you will never see the thing you want implemented in the correct way or the way you thought it would. Same for Puck... even after 1 hero creation won... we still chopped and screwed a Puck together from the whole competition.

Just telling you loose is better... if we find we need to add a sub category or something else or a new rule then add it in... don't start the system out already broken and boring. (Who knows maybe one day we can work up to the 3 tier/stage system)
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:44 PM   #104
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Update: I thought Polls were disabled before, they are now disabled. Until we come up with the new system we are going to use (which will take a bit of time), I'd prefer if people focused on the discussion and debate of a feature rather than on a simple vote that usually ends up ignoring the most important aspect of the suggestions process. We lose very valuable information about whats good and whats not good for the game if people are just encouraged to do a vote without explaining, it also leads to people misvoting because they feel bad to TD. So for the meantime, focus on just explaining why something is good or isn't good and analyzing what effects it would have both on development time and on gameplay depth and quality.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 07:10 PM   #105
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^
A very good idea, Id prefer letting it like this, no polls just discussion.

Anyway, what i wanted to say, is that perhaps we could make something without "real" polls.
Let me explain my idea: There would be a poll with only one option, which would be something like: "This suggestion should (regarding the concept) be added to Dota"

Then people would more often make a real discussion, which points they criticize and which points of the suggestion still needs improvement. In favor of this would be that users wouldnt be that much discouraged as they were, when they got a lot of Random TDs, but 99% positive posts, what happened not rarely at all DA forums. Nevertheless, you can still see whether your suggestion is good or not, if there are a lot more posts than votes, then obviously youre suggestion is rather bad, but since users will post and suggest new ideas hopefully, you can improve your suggestion. Outstanding topics will get a lot of votes very fast.
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Old 06-13-2009, 07:23 PM   #106
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btw there was one bug on da i hope it won't follow us, the bug was as following.

when I didn't log in and went to suggestion forums and watched them i could see the poll statusses, howevere when i was logged on i couldn't so if i wanted to bee a sheep i could look at others their votes. Then log in and pretend i didn't know there votes, however in the replies of others there was also most of the time stated opinions with t-up and t-down.... but i think this is unavoidable though.


one other thing that slipped my mind during my biology exams (yeah i know always getting distracted xD)

a major flaw is that most revieuwers lack knowledge

balance issues can be adapted from exsisting skill
but developing issues performance etc. these are hard to understand i even find myself to have a big time understanding them.

i think there should be some miniguide in improving knowledge of the most people etc... where to think about when revieuwing.... or does it exist and i've found it ?
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Old 06-14-2009, 12:43 PM   #107
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@ IceFrog, #104

If you want real discussion atmosphere, forums should look something like this:
http://www.dota-league.com/?section=...=1002#comments
(no post counts, no avatars, no edits, no signatures, not to many formatting options - mostly just names, post numbers, and what they have to say/offer)

There you can still format text, quote, reply and so on, but anything that doesn't help discussion, only uses place, and draws attention from suggestion itself is removed.
(edits for example, are removing chronology from posts, while anyone serious enough don't really care about other people typos)
 
Old 06-14-2009, 01:55 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W-a-r-l-o-r-d View Post
@ IceFrog, #104

If you want real discussion atmosphere, forums should look something like this:
http://www.dota-league.com/?section=...=1002#comments
(no post counts, no avatars, no edits, no signatures, not to many formatting options - mostly just names, post numbers, and what they have to say/offer)

There you can still format text, quote, reply and so on, but anything that doesn't help discussion, only uses place, and draws attention from suggestion itself is removed.
(edits for example, are removing chronology from posts, while anyone serious enough don't really care about other people typos)
no, can't agree to this at all
actually being able to edit your posts helps a discussion rather than distracting from the point; the "rule" that you shouldn't edit your suggestions only makes sense with people voting (so that people didn't vote on something that was presented differently)
but with the focus on discussion it will be helpful to edit your sugestions with the feedback you get and thus improving the idea

and i don't think that a fancy, eye-pleasing appearance of the suggestion distracts from anything; first of all the substance of a suggestion matters but i want it to look good and be well presented as well - not at all for this minimalistic thing
 
Old 06-14-2009, 08:45 PM   #109
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Maybe this can be a solution. We give every member a certain amount of votes per month, members then vote on heroes they like the best (limited amount of votes can be given to single suggestion from one member), when a suggestion reaches a certain amount of votes it goes to a next level (sub forums like 200, 500, 1200, 2000 votes). When a sugestion reaches 2000 votes Ice will decide is the suggestion worth implementing. If not suggestion will lose 500 votes and creator must change 50% of its contents.

Also it must have a certain number of pages discussing the sugestion to pass to next level in order to prevent voting abuse, like 1 for 200, 3 for 500, 5 for 1200 and 7 for 2000.


As for spam I highly recomend deleting them and keeping count of how meny deleted replays a member has. When number of deleted replies reaches certain number member loses the privilege to vote and post.
 
Old 06-14-2009, 09:02 PM   #110
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^ You mean limited votes? I strongly dislike this idea, because at the end of the month there could be very good suggestions, but you cant vote anymore, because you already exhausted your maximal votes. This is no solution imo.

And yes, we all agree in deleting spam posts, I think.
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:24 PM   #111
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@ TraVeIIeR, #108

You got me completely wrong.

1st post in the thread might have some logic in editing, even tho short reviews inside threads would probably be even better, as you would instantly know which questions were covered by which review. (latest review would cover all previous post)

And eye appealing thread is not problem (even in that link I have put, you can still make nicely looking thread), the problem is in flashing signatures and avatars that bring no real gain to discussion, but just distract.

For example, JJE92 has sniper picture and link inside his signature, and it doesn't contribute at all to this discussion, just distracts. (no hard feelings, this is just example)



@ Panter, #109

Vote elimination is exactly what IceFrog don't want, since fancy suggestions get most votes, and fancy suggestions are rarely good.
 
Old 06-15-2009, 07:52 AM   #112
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It doesn't have to be a month, votes can be given at the start of new week, and they will not be added to the
unused votes all unused votes will be lost and everyone will have the same amount every week, this will give little more power to the ones that spends a lot of time in the forum, but it wovldn't be that bad because I think that you can't judge properly if you saw 5 suggestions, but if yuo saw 500 you pretty much know how original it is, is it balanced, does it contain some elements that are not implementable in the game that already hold back some suggestions and so on.


As for the Ice I'm pretty sure he doesn't mind voting system he simply wants discussion, if we give him the voting system with a lot of discussion which can be done using minimum amount of pages for progression (and if the spam messages are deleted suggestion that is discussed on 10 pages and has 2000 votes will probably have something to offer) he will agree. In any case you need votes or a lot of mods constantly on the job in order to constantly push good suggestions back to front page. Don't say that good suggestion will push itself because it won't.
 
Old 06-15-2009, 09:08 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panter View Post
As for the Ice I'm pretty sure he doesn't mind voting system he simply wants discussion, if we give him the voting system with a lot of discussion which can be done using minimum amount of pages for progression (and if the spam messages are deleted suggestion that is discussed on 10 pages and has 2000 votes will probably have something to offer) he will agree.
He just disabled polls... pretty sure he hates them as the only ones I've ever seen him make are on his blog.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:23 AM   #114
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@ Panter,

- Believe me, the threads with most votes were always like following:

OP: Why don't use this icon instead of this? It is so cool!
Masses: Yeah! Icon for the president!
Thumbs up: infinite

- As for limited amounts of threads/posts/votes/ I am for it as long as it is fair and balanced.

For example, daily limitations in all of those fields would force people to think twice before writing/voting something, but even if they spend all, waiting till tomorrow isn't big problem.
 
Old 06-15-2009, 09:53 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W-a-r-l-o-r-d View Post
@ Panter,

- Believe me, the threads with most votes were always like following:

OP: Why don't use this icon instead of this? It is so cool!
Masses: Yeah! Icon for the president!
Thumbs up: infinite

- As for limited amounts of threads/posts/votes/ I am for it as long as it is fair and balanced.

For example, daily limitations in all of those fields would force people to think twice before writing/voting something, but even if they spend all, waiting till tomorrow isn't big problem.
Adding vote/topic restrictions is simply narrow minded. I hate to break it to you, but it is. The problem is not numbers. It is the need for a system that is fair and lets the quality stuff stand out.

BTW your example fails so hard! I can show you many great icons and they deserve all the votes - I assume you speak from D-A. Like it or not, the first level of the assention system needs a majority vote, just so the opinion of the community is taken into account...
 
Old 06-15-2009, 10:21 AM   #116
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@ vladddi, #115

Quality stuff cannot stand out if you have tons of spam around, especially if that spam is fancy and easy to understand.

And my example did not fail, it was meant to show that simple and fancy things have higher vote rate then any complex suggestion, simply because they are easier to understand, and since suggestions here are bumped by new posts, those easy and fancy suggestions usually get all the spot light. (if it is guided by votes/posts)
 
Old 06-15-2009, 10:37 AM   #117
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easy does not equal bad
if a good icon is suggested it can't be considered as "spam" and it deserves the positive feedback
from my experience bad stuff / spam (like your example a bad icon suggested without any explanation) got negative feedback very quickly and was subsequently closed
 
Old 06-15-2009, 12:08 PM   #118
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Old 06-15-2009, 12:15 PM   #119
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@ TraVeIIeR, #117

From your experience looks like DA suggestion forums were working well, while in fact they didn't. (in most aspects)

And easy does not equal bad, but IceFrog has limited time, and he should have his share of both simple and complex suggestions.
(and all of them should be good)
 
Old 06-15-2009, 12:23 PM   #120
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Ice just disabled polls until a working system is found. Without an automated system that will promote good suggestion we WILL lose them because of the mass amaunt of suggestions that WILL came.


I know that fancy staff gets a lot of votes an that's the reason I suggested page- requirement and deleteing of ALL un neccesary post includeing "it's so cool" , "it rocks" and similar. Those must be avoided at all costs. The only ones that stays will be the ones pointing out weakneses and suggesting inprovements.


Cigaro: no edit, misclick
 
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