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Old 01-31-2011, 06:51 PM   #1
Lithary
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Lightbulb Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]


Read this first:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
Oh, well.
I know when I am defeated, so to speak.
I'll leave this thread here in case people still want to take a look, toss a comment or something else.
I just had that idea since I thought that it will make them both into better heroes and will fit them better, but it seems that people don't like it.
Still, I would still personally prefer if his concept was changed from lighting to lighting/wind (making Electric Vortex Becoming Vortex as I suggested above; also have changed that slow debuff lasts same as drag/disable effect and not 3 seconds all the time) and that Wisp has his main attribute changed to intelligence (sorry, but him being strength simply sounds totally wrong).
Well, I think that's that.
As you can see above, I don't plan to push this thread any more, but still don't plan to close it as I already stated above.
All I suggest now, together with things I've mentioned above, is that charges on Overload can stack up to 3 times.
So when rating/commenting also tell me what do you think about that.


Ok, first of all, I'm not guy who is that good with support type heroes, but I will try to make Wisp remain a great supporter while giving him some firepower.
On the other hand, I don't like this 'new' Storm Spirit.
He has his good sides (new and better ultimate instead of that mass Blink), but has totally wrong concept in my opinion.
He should be spirit of storm (in WC world, that means wind and lighting) and we got, well, only his cool ultimate that fits that concept.
Anyway, what I plan to do with him is make that storm concept better.
1st, mostly visual remake of Electric Vortex.
Gonna rename it into Vortex and make it wind based skill instead of lighting based one (witch is actually more logical).
2nd, gonna make his lighting aspect fit more actual lighting.
Zeus and Razor have destructive aspect of the lighting, but none of them has speed aspect of the lighting.
Well, Razor has, but he is not that fast as lighting.
So, I'm gonna switch Overcharge and Static Remnant for the beginning and adjust other skill and stats so it fits those heroes.
And also, I plan to suggest Guardian Wisp main attribute change.
I can't accept him as strength hero no matter how much someone tries to force it on me.
And don't give me that stuff about originality.
There is a fine line between originality and nonsense!
Anyway, let's start (you'll get more details on the way).






19 + 1.5
20 + 1.8
23 + 3

Reason:




Removed 2 starting agility points and have added the to strength since I think he could have a better use of them because of the Overcharge skill he will get.
It ain't much, but it will help.
Also have increased his intelligence growth by 0.4 since he will depend more on his regular attacks in order to deal damage.








(The icon is not made by me and is taken from here.)

Ability Type: Active
Targeting Type: Unit
Ability Hotkey: V

Storm focuses wind currents around enemy unit trapping it and drawing it to him. Concentration needed for this slows Storm's MS by 50% for the duration of the spell.

Level 1 - Pulls 100 units over 1 second.

Level 2 - Pulls 150 units over 1.5 second.

Level 3 - Pulls 200 units over 2 second.

Level 4 - Pulls 250 units over 2.5 second.

Mana Cost: 125
Cooldown: 20s
Cast Range: 300
Notes:
• MS debuff has same duration as Vortex.
• This skill is blocked by Linken's Sphere and can't target magic immune units.
• Visual: When targeted unit is affected by this skill, it should look as if it was affected by Cyclone from Eul, but that it only rises unit a bit from the ground and not all the way into the air.






Reason:




Now he represents an aspect of lighting like he should in my opinion.
He is fast (both movement and his attacks), has nice offensive and has wind element present witch he should have since he is Storm Spirit and not Lighting Spirit (and like I said, in WC universe, storm = lighting + wind, not storm = lighting).


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Last edited by Lithary; 02-03-2011 at 09:08 PM.
Old 01-31-2011, 07:25 PM   #2
JJE92
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

About Storm Spirit (quoting my own guide I'm working on)
Quote:
Storm Spirit: I think it's not necessary to elaborate why his core concept of zipping around the battlefield goes so well with his lightning/electricity theme.
More tricky - and ingenious Imo - is the second part of his core concept: alternately using his spammable skills and his empowered normal attack. I'll let you guess here: Which aspect of electricity does this core concept remind you of?
Solution: The charging and discharging (of a capacitor to be more specific).
His gameplay goes so well with his lightning/electricity theme, it's amazing. I don't see any need to change this.

Static Remnant is perfect on a hero like SS, who can get to places at an insane speed and lie down these sort of traps. On a hero like Wisp, it's just a dumb and unfitting skill with no synergies.
Overcharge on SS is stupid as well, it would ruin his concept of spamming his skills and using his empowered normal attack alternately.

So you'd be ruining two perfect concepts and gameplays for just a minor flaw of Storm Spirit not quite being a storm spirit? Seriously, there are over 9000 better solutions for this minor issue.
Huge TD, perhaps one of the hugest ones I've ever given. Seriously, don't touch Storm Spirit and Wisp in remake forum, except for balance things. They are perfect.
If you're really bugged about him being a Storm Spirit, then suggest to change the title, that would be the simplest solution solving the problem without causing any further problems.

Edit: And to be honest, even if he doesn't use wind skills, his whole gameplay feels a lot like a huge storm creating havoc all over the battlefield, doesn't it.
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:44 PM   #3
Lithary
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJE92 View Post
About Storm Spirit (quoting my own guide I'm working on)
His gameplay goes so well with his lightning/electricity theme, it's amazing. I don't see any need to change this.
Charging/discharging makes him fit lighting concept much as loading a gun makes you fit a gunman concept.
You can't build a concept around that.
At least it didn't fit here.
With that logic, Razor and Zeus already have that cocnept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJE92 View Post
Static Remnant is perfect on a hero like SS, who can get to places at an insane speed and lie down these sort of traps. On a hero like Wisp, it's just a dumb and unfitting skill with no synergies.
Erm, Wisp gains a large bonus to his MS when he uses Tether and has stun so yeah, it will fit him nicely.
Also, I've added synergy that an another remnant appears at the location of unit Io is tethered with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJE92 View Post
Overcharge on SS is stupid as well, it would ruin his concept of spamming his skills and using his empowered normal attack alternately.
But it would give him a new speed concept witch is much better concept for lighting to have.
Also, his concept of spamming is pretty bad and weak in my opinion.
I honestly barelyNever! ever see him being used after he was remade, but saw tons of people use him before.
He was simple yet effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJE92 View Post
So you'd be ruining two perfect concepts and gameplays for just a minor flaw of Storm Spirit not quite being a storm spirit? Seriously, there are over 9000 better solutions for this minor issue.
Huge TD, perhaps one of the hugest ones I've ever given. Seriously, don't touch Storm Spirit and Wisp in remake forum, except for balance things. They are perfect.
Storm is faaaar from being perfect.
He's terrible now.
Only good thing he is perfect now is running away.
And no, it's not minor flaw.
When something called a rock it should be a rock and not a paper.
Io is good (at least he does his role well), but people don't enjoy playing him and feel like it's a task given by their parents.
KotL, for example, who is also a supporter has a Kamehameha-like skill witch he can spam as much as he wants and therefore gives people enjoyment so they don't feel like they are other heroes personal boot shiners.
Io has his Spirits and they are good, but that's the problem.
They are just good.
Yeah, you can say '30% slow, 500 total damage, low CD and mana', but it's all on paper while in reality doesn't work like that and people still don't like that hero and avoid him.
With the remake I suggested, he would continue to be a great supporter, but also gain some firepower.
Also, there is no chance in the universe that you will convince me that Io should be strength hero.
Even it Ice makes his skills have greater effect based on his strength or something like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJE92 View Post
If you're really bugged about him being a Storm Spirit, then suggest to change the title, that would be the simplest solution solving the problem without causing any further problems.
That wouldn't solve anything. >.>

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJE92 View Post
Edit: And to be honest, even if he doesn't use wind skills, his whole gameplay feels a lot like a huge storm creating havoc all over the battlefield, doesn't it.
No!
He should use wind skills.
Not to mention that Vortex would fit skills effect much better.
Storm aspect uses lighting and wind and so should Storm Spirit.

Edit:
Funny thing, he still keeps charge/discharge aspect of lighting you've mentioned even with mine remake.
Meaning that I got two aspects of lighting at the same time.
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Last edited by Lithary; 02-01-2011 at 01:35 AM.
Old 01-31-2011, 10:24 PM   #4
sarathklal
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

SS remake is incredibly retarded imo.. you've made him into an autoattacker who can jump around the map. Also i dont think any int hero has ias improving skills(2nd power) or crit like ability(3rd power which seems more useless). Also he has neither a nuke nor an orb. Truly horrible. No comments on wisp.. never played him but my friends like playing him
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarathklal View Post
SS remake is incredibly retarded imo.. you've made him into an autoattacker who can jump around the map. Also i dont think any int hero has ias improving skills(2nd power) or crit like ability(3rd power which seems more useless). Also he has neither a nuke nor an orb. Truly horrible. No comments on wisp.. never played him but my friends like playing him
So what he doesn't have any nuke or an orb?
Sorry but your comment seems kinda narrow minded. :-/
Intelligence hero =/= must have nuke!
You even didn't think about of what he can and can't do.
Have you ever even played with old Storm?
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

He is a storm spirit not a wind spirit you fool, you dont need wind for a storm, only certain storms, he is the elecrtical so it isnt required, stop trying to make him into a wind hero, remember storm spirit isnt from earth he lives in the world of wc3 u fool. =) if you want a "wind" hero try WINDRUNNER!!!!!!!!!!
btw forgot to mention that the change you want to vortex wouldnt fit the "wind" section still cuz a vortex isnt just a cyclone... it is alot of energy which spins around usually caused my electromagnetic forces which is also what helps cause a cyclone on earth so do your research before pulling some half facts on us infact you should look up a supernova vortex on the internet i had to look at this for my physics class and it was really cool
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
Charging/discharging makes him fit lighting concept much as loading a gun makes you fit a gunman concept.
You can't build a concept around that.
At least it didn't fit here.
With that logic, Razor and Zeus already have that concept.
Didn't you read the electricity part? Ofc it doesn't make sense with lightning, but SS uses a mix of lightning and electricity aspects in his theme...
Actually, his main theme is electricity, and lightning is only a form of electricity he uses. His main theme is NOT storm (only his title) and his theme is NOT lightning itself.
Read Background Story before saying things that are simply false.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
Erm, Wisp gains a large bonus to his MS when he uses Tether and has stun so yeah, it will fit him nicely.
Also, I've added synergy that an another remnant appears at the location of unit Io is tethered with.
It will fit a bit, but not much. He wouldn't be able to support allied carries and other physical damage dealers as much as now. He already has a nuke, I don't see any reason to add a second one on a support. Venge has only a stun to deal damage and is still a perfect support hero.
Synergies also means synergies with role and concept, not only with skills themselves fyi.

And about SS: I don't have to explain why Static Remnant is so unique and awesome with Ball Lightning and with his passive, do I.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
But it would give him a new speed concept witch is much better concept for lighting to have.
Also, his concept of spamming is pretty bad and weak in my opinion.
I honestly barelyNever! ever see him being used after he was remade, but saw tons of people use him before.
He was simple yet effective.
Electricity and not even Lightning doesn't mean fast speed in form of consecutive attacks at all.
It's the blitz-style of his attacks that truly makes his concept fitting, not fast consecutive normal attacks.

And do you ever watch competitive? Before he was nerfed, he was nearly a sure pick/ban. I honestly haven't seen many people use the old SS in competitive games.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
Storm is faaaar from being perfect.
He's terrible now.
Only good thing he is perfect now is running away.
Sorry, but if you're saying it like this I have to say that you don't seem to know how to use Storm Spirit to the full extent. He's way better than that. He jumps in, finishes off one enemy in small time and jumps out again, that's his blitz-style, and it's very effective if you know how to use this. Ofc, most pubs or newbies don't, but that's no reason why the hero could be bad.

[QUOTE=Lithary;2120318]Io is good (at least he does his role well), but people don't enjoy playing him and feel like it's a task given by their parents.[QUOTE=Lithary;2120318]Then don't play him if you don't like this. I for myself do know many people who enjoy this two-man ganking strat supporter. And I can imagine that he will become one of the best supporters in competitive as soon as he is in the pool, there are just so many strats you can do with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
Edit:
Funny thing, he still keeps charge/discharge aspect of lighting you've mentioned even with mine remake.
Meaning that I got two aspects of lighting at the same time.
No, because you removed one of the spamming skills he needs (the other one costs too much MC to spam that much).
For the rest, see above.
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Last edited by JJE92; 02-01-2011 at 04:45 PM.
Old 02-01-2011, 08:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

T-down
1. Storm Spirit shouldn't be changed
2. Wisp 2nd skill is imba. And there's a reason why they made his Main Att STR... if it is INT... = bigger base damage + spirits = farming machine...
That's the same reason why the Old Naix had his Main Att STR even if his AGI is far greater that his STR... STR at 25 = less than 100; AGI at 25 = 140+ I think...
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:11 PM   #9
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarathklal View Post
SS remake is incredibly retarded imo..
Generally any remake that reverts a hero to an older version of himself is retarded.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

T-down ob both.
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

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Originally Posted by sukkapokka View Post
t-down ob both.
+1, do not touch my wisp!!
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

First of all: I like the current storm and imo he should be that way. But personally i like your version too. It gives him carryish/dps'ish side and i like it.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

Oh god what a terrible topic.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:20 PM   #14
Lithary
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

Oh, well.
I know when I am defeated, so to speak.
I'll leave this thread here in case people still want to take a look, toss a comment or something else.
I just had that idea since I thought that it will make them both into better heroes and will fit them better, but it seems that people don't like it.
Still, I would still personally prefer if his concept was changed from lighting to lighting/wind (making Electric Vortex Becoming Vortex as I suggested above; also have changed that slow debuff lasts same as drag/disable effect and not 3 seconds all the time) and that Wisp has his main attribute changed to intelligence (sorry, but him being strength simply sounds totally wrong).
Well, I think that's that.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

BTW saying "new SS is retarded" is retarded itself.
I guess you don't know how to use it

Only a few more tweaks in his current skills should suffice.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:01 PM   #16
Lithary
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Default Re: Storm Spirit/Guardian Wisp [Remake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrinnValesti View Post
BTW saying "new SS is retarded" is retarded itself.
I guess you don't know how to use it

Only a few more tweaks in his current skills should suffice.
No it's not.
And I know how to use him, I know how to do it very well.
You are not talking to some 3rd grade twatshit here, so think next time before you say to someone that his suggestion is retarded or that he doesn't know how to use certain hero.
The thing is that I simply think that suggested version is better, but other members don't and that's that.
Also, I don't remember of ever saying that current Storm Spirit is retarded, so please don't put word in my mouth only because you want to make a bad joke or something.
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