[TWEAK] Thrall's Thematic Concept and Workout

[JJE92]

[TWEAK] Thrall's Thematic Concept and Workout

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CHANGELOG

February 9, 2011

• Posted this in Visuals

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INTRODUCTION


Hi there fellow suggestors and reviewers,

a lot of discussion is on-going at the moment on Thrall's visual aspects and his theme, mainly criticising how they are in-game right now.
For this, there are many good and logical reasons:

• Although he's called a Far Seer, he doesn't use any of the typical abilities for such a class.
• The shamanistic lightning part of his theme isn't very creative
• He uses a strange psionic theme, which doesn't resemble Thrall at all
• Many aspects of Thrall's warcraft background are left out

Some argued that this was enough reason to change his model completely.
I hardly think this has a chance to be implemented. We've all waited for Thrall really long, IceFrog surely worked on him for quite a while, unfortunately, most of us are not pleased with how Thrall is thematically atm - I'm pretty sure that's not an easy situation for IF either.

Therefore, my try to solve this problem goes into another direction. Instead of changing the whole background and the model of this hero, I'd prefer optmising and improving his currently insufficient theme.

Unfortunately, I'm not talented with making visuals myself, this suggestion is more about the idea so far. If more talented guys could help making them and even come up with more ideas (always appreciated), I'll gladly put them in OP with credits

So, everything's said so far, moving on to the ideas

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ANALYSIS OF THRALL'S BACKGROUND


What is Thrall's background. If you want detailed information about this, read this.


Melee fighter, blademaster:

• "He mixes a judicious amount of melee with powerful spellcasting to great effect", says wowwiki.
  Hardly possible to add this background. It would simply change his gameplay too much. Besides, he sits on the wolf, so it wouldn't make sense anyway.

Far Seer Theme - Shamanistic Part:

• In ladder warcraft 3, Thrall is basically nothing more than a Far Seer, he doesn't use any special spells.
• In ladder, he uses both the lightning element and the earth element.
• "In one of the most spiritual experiences of his life, Thrall befriended the spirits of Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and the Wilds. He became the first new shaman since Gul'dan's vile corruption of the Horde." is mentioned in wowwiki.
  Earth, Air, Fire, Water and the Wilds. That's a huge array of possibilities for a workout of his shamanistic sub theme. Sadly, IceFrog only took the lightning.
  Here, different unique combinations of the elements are also possible (magma/lava just as an example), such uniqueness would even show his outstanding level of shamanism for that he is renowned.
• On the subject of the spirit wolves: I don't think they can be used without changing his skills. Besides, Lycanthrope already sort of uses them and I don't have the intention to make something unnecessarily overused.

Far Seer Theme - Seer part:

• As stated here, being a seer doesn't necessarily mean that you can see far away places. This aspect doesn't go at all with his skills.
• However, being a far seer can enable you to see in the future and the past, and Thrall could do this as well ("that he had foreseen the future", wowwiki). This aspect could be used in his skills.

Doomhammer:

• His legendary hammer. This really could be used in one of his skills, and there are possibilities left open to add this awesome and unique aspect.

Frostwolf Snowsong:

• The wolf he's riding. Would be cool to add something with this, but I don't see the possibility with his current skills atm.

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POTENTIAL VISUAL CHANGES

Thunder Strike

• Current
• Shamanistic Suggestion

I really think the current visual looks cool and it goes well with the skill, but there's one major problem:
The animation is really similar to Razor's Ult animation

I think here's a good possibility to use some shamanistic variety.
Some volcanic activity that follows him under the ground and then erupts three times.

Note: Using Doomhammer here could be an option to show the doom on the enemy, but I left it out, because this skill is instantly cast atm and such an animation would probably have effects on the gameplay by changing this.

Glimpse

• Current
• Seer Suggestion
• Doomhammer Suggestion

Glimpse has only got a small lightning field animation on the hero and on the place he will be teleported.
I think this is very unfitting and relatively unimaginative.
It also looks like a smaller version of Ult's animation

The current skill shows Thrall's power of vision of the future and the past, thus this aspect of his Far Seer title could be used here.
Sadly, I can't recall any animation that would go well with this seer theme and with the skill, therefore this would have to be done via description and background story probably.

The current skill already has a casting delay, so this makes the doomhammer option a viable one here.
The hammer would fly towards the enemy and upon hitting him, the enemy would be moved back in time and the hammer would disappear.

Credits to AmplifyDamage, who used this animation in his hero suggestion.

Note:Of course, shamanistic aspects could be used here as well, but I think the other options clearly outweigh this option.

Kinetic Field

• Current
• Shamanistic Suggestion 1
• Shamanistic Suggestion 2

I must say, the current barrier in use looks pretty epic and even I would like to keep it.
Unfortunately its thematic background doesn't go that well with Thrall.

This is a try to change the skill a bit in a shamanistic direction without changing the awesome animation.
New description:

Other option could be to use something with a wind barrier. It would go well with this skill and improve his shamanistic theme, but the animation would have to be changed.

Static Storm

• Current
• Doomhammer Suggestion

The current animation is that a field is created in which a lightning field animation grows and grows.
It looks quite good Imo and I'm not sure if it should be changed.

The skill already uses the perfect icon for a Doomhammer Suggestion, so why not use it.
The hammer would fly towards the area very fast (or emerge in the area for no gameplay change at all) and then rotate in the area, still using the current animation with it.

Credits to AmplifyDamage, who used this animation in his hero suggestion.

That's it so far, thank you for reading it. Any further suggestions added will be pronounced and written in changelog. I'm open to any further suggestions, ideas, objective criticism and even improvement ideas and of course, I'm desperately in need of anyone doing some animations, so please help me ^^

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CREDITS

AmplifyDamage, for Doomhammer animation
DarkKenshi, for his awesome Template, now first time I use it for a visual suggestion
Everyone else, who helped me or reviewed this. And if you read this, thank you for having spent the time to read this thread
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[mahcookie]

I like the idea of Doomhammer causing the static storm.

However, SSs would be nice on your other suggestions.

[Cassion]

I think here's a good possibility to use some shamanistic variety.
Some volcanic activity that follows him under the ground and then erupts three times.

I also like the idea of the doomhammer triggering a static storm after being thrown. And since the concept of lightning has been used by the ulti, the volcanic activity replacement for his first skill looks pretty appropriate.

[NoThlnG]

Originally Posted by SystemOfADown

I like the idea of Doomhammer causing the static storm.

However, SSs would be nice on your other suggestions.

This. Kinda null for others.

[condorzai]

No ned to read contents. Title is enough for a massive T-UP!!

[Vot1_Bear]

Your reason is logical and needed, so i'll t-up on changing.
Anyway...

• Shaman 3-element concept is not that important. Since in ladder orcs ARE affiliated with lightning, i think simply lightning will be enough
  
• Doomhammer is needed. T-up
  
• The far-seeing can be used with glimpse. We can add a resized-far sight effect on target that moves just like the current lightning trail. iirc the far sight effect will be similar to using dust.
  
• Wild, although is acceptable, Doesn't really mix well with his skillset nor his theme. And so does his wolf. So t-d on making him wild.

[B.M.K.]

I don't like it, he still seems to me not so epic as Thrall is, I prefer this http://www.playdota.com/forums/409336/change-thrall/

[Mr. Burns]

Originally Posted by SystemOfADown

I like the idea of Doomhammer causing the static storm.

However, SSs would be nice on your other suggestions.

This. Suggestion is in overall T-UP!!

[JJE92]

Thx for all the comments

Originally Posted by SystemOfADown

I like the idea of Doomhammer causing the static storm.

However, SSs would be nice on your other suggestions.

I know, that's why I said that I'm in desperate need of someone who can create good animations. I have no idea how to do this, I can only create the conceptual basis, but not do the workout.

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Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

• Shaman 3-element concept is not that important. Since in ladder orcs ARE affiliated with lightning, i think simply lightning will be enough

Not quite true. It's true for WoW that Thrall only uses lightning (and melee), but in WC3 he uses the Far Seer skillset involving 1 lightning skill and 1 earth skill.

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

• The far-seeing can be used with glimpse. We can add a resized-far sight effect on target that moves just like the current lightning trail. iirc the far sight effect will be similar to using dust.

Interesting idea, I can't really imagine how this would look, but it could fit pretty well, thx for this input

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

• Wild, although is acceptable, Doesn't really mix well with his skillset nor his theme. And so does his wolf. So t-d on making him wild.

Agreed, my conclusion as well

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Originally Posted by B.M.K.

I don't like it, he still seems to me not so epic as Thrall is, I prefer this http://www.playdota.com/forums/409336/change-thrall/

I respect your opinion, but if you want to remove Thrall, many people would really like to see his model being used on another hero.

I tried to involve all possible aspects of Thrall's thematic background and I really can't see any further thematic background that could make him more epic.
So could you please answer me what you would think of as an epic thematic concept and workout for Thrall (only thematic, not gameplay ofc). Perhaps I could improve my suggestion with this and understand your argument, because at the moment I don't get how you want to make a new Thrall more epic than a Thrall with my suggested aspects added.

[Monsterlord]

Shaman 3-element concept is not that important. Since in ladder orcs ARE affiliated with lightning, i think simply lightning will be enough

"Storm, Earth and Fire, Heed my call." >_>

As for Glimpse, perhaps a reversed version of Timewalk? Show a faded model at the point they're going to appear, and "drag" multiple versions backwards until they reach it?

[Flame13]

Glimpse doomhammer will change gameplay drasticly so that isn't good but others may work.Since I don't want to change the epic Thrall model nor skills I have no other option than support this thread.Anything but not that damn Gryphon model suggested...

[JJE92]

Thx for the support and the helpful comments

Originally Posted by Monsterlord

As for Glimpse, perhaps a reversed version of Timewalk? Show a faded model at the point they're going to appear, and "drag" multiple versions backwards until they reach it?

That would be quite epic, I like the idea.

I'm going to think about it a bit, but I'm going to add some things suggested for Glimpse to the op within the next days.

Originally Posted by Flame13

Glimpse doomhammer will change gameplay drasticly so that isn't good but others may work.Since I don't want to change the epic Thrall model nor skills I have no other option than support this thread.Anything but not that damn Gryphon model suggested...

Wait what? How would it change the gameplay? The delay is already there (only now shown by the hammer flying instead of by a kind of lame lightning field around the target).

[Monsterlord]

Ignore Flame13. He's terrible.

[fan.god]

T-up for the awesome Doomhammer visual effects. Rest are null. Glimpse might need a more subtle effect.

[Flame13]

Yeah but it is shown until where will he be dragged by an lightning kind effect coming backwards and if I understood correctly the Hammer is the projectile not something that appears on target's back and drags him backwards... XD )
Oh and I don't care what you say Monster...

[JJE92]

Originally Posted by Flame13

Yeah but it is shown until where will he be dragged by an lightning kind effect coming backwards and if I understood correctly the Hammer is the projectile not something that appears on target's back and drags him backwards... XD )

You could still keep that lightning effect at the place he'll be dragged to or even add an effect implying his powers as a seer if one wants to. And even if there is no such thing, you should know where you were 4 seconds ago, I mean come on...
How should this affect the gameplay?

I don't get the problem so far.

[Flame13]

Well I just didn't sayed it is a hero breaking thing...Minor problem easy to resolve by keeping the lightning effect that shows where it was 5 seconds ago...

[JJE92]

Originally Posted by Flame13

Well I just didn't sayed it is a hero breaking thing...Minor problem easy to resolve by keeping the lightning effect that shows where it was 5 seconds ago...

Originally Posted by Flame13

Glimpse doomhammer will change gameplay drasticly so that isn't good

Sounds quite different to me. Anyway, if that's the problem, then it's easy to solve
Glad that this could be clarified asap ^^

[Guardian AngeL]

Of course T-Up.

[sttomato]

i prefer not to let IF get any famous original warcraft heroes into DotA. Frostmourne on Abaddon is an epic failure.