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Old 06-16-2009, 01:43 PM   #1
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Default Ogre Magi item build


Not having to go for scepter has thrown off my item build for Magi. Only played one game with him (though he's one of my favorites), but I went for Mek early and only had about 40 creep kills midway through since I didn't get ignite and had bloodlust running for early pushes. Perhaps mek>euls>ginsoo>travs?
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:47 PM   #2
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Why eul's, then guinsoo? Did they change it back so eul's is needed for guinsoo?

Why Mek on ogre? He needs mana for spell spamming, and delaying mana/mana regen for a heal will not work well IMO.

I would think that with the changes to Aghamin's for him, bloodstone would be a great item to shoot for. You have a stun and a slow, so you don't necessarily need a disable (guinsoo/eul's), just mana capacity and mana regen, which bloodstone provides (not to mention the HP capacity and HP regen, part of which you were trying to obtain with Mek).
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:49 PM   #3
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Bloodstone is a great item, though I tend to think that magi is more of a support hero with killing capabilities. I think Eul's before ginsoo since it is cheaper and gives a disable.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:51 PM   #4
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In any given battle he's going to get off 2-3 fireballs, a bloodlust or two, and an ignite....It doesnt really require too much mana. Getting a euls will extend the battle (as will ginsoo) and mek is a good team item
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:58 PM   #5
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Arcane Ring > Bloodstone > Shiva's/Guinsoo.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:59 PM   #6
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Phase, bottle, blood, guinsoo, AXE OF INFINITE KNOWLEDGE
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:00 PM   #7
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I think bloodstone is a good idea. I dont know if Arcane ring is the greatest though. If your team is pushing a lane, I think that you will have the opportunity to get more than 2-3 fireballs off and you want to make sure you have the ability to cast it as much as you can.
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:03 PM   #8
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Ogre is a pretty great Arcane Ring user - he tends to roam a lot and help teammates get kills, and the only thing he really needs is mana to spam. Maybe a Force Staff to give yourself that little boost in certain situations. Heck, stun an enemy and then boost a party member closer to him so he can get a few more whacks in.
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:04 PM   #9
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Wow, bloodstone seems rather popular. Might as well give it a try. I think that 2x void stone are better than arcane ring, since arcane ring gives only 3 1/3 mp/s, while two voids would give around the same (wish the wiki were up to get exact numbers) and can be made into a bloodstone and ginsoo
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:16 PM   #10
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Phase boots Speed and armor
Euls Early disable and mana regen
Orchid DPS ITEM
Shiva TANK + Nuke

That is my standard build
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:47 PM   #11
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Phase- Mobility, Armor, cheapest choice of boots for the ganking magi
Guinsoos- Luxury Item if not.. orchards for the silence and amplified damage
Bloodstone- Cheap useful parts, imo best core item on him
Shivas- Obvious synergy
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:55 PM   #12
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Guinsoo was better than scepter on Ogre before, and it's still the best int item, imo.

Still, Guinsoo's pieces are pretty pricey and Ogre (even if he has a great attack animation and a bunch of hps) is not the best farmer in the game.

The solution is to farm an Orchid before then go for Guinsoo if the game last longer. Orchid pieces are easy to obtain, and they gives Ogre mana+mana regen and a bit of dps too.

Orchid is a solid item on Ogre, giving him 60dmg, +30%ias, 260 MP and 225% mana regen plus Soul Burn. Combined with Bloodlust (50% IAS and 15% MS) it turns Ogre into a nice secondary dps source, giving him great support potential too (spammable stun, AoE snare, silence). Imo, Ogre is not meant to be played like a subpar Zeus, since he is so beefy, has a chaser skillsuit and has a spammable steroid spell too.

Guinsoo is the perfect luxury item on Ogre.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:01 PM   #13
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When playing ogre 5s heres what I do:

Ring of the basilus + tangos to start. Yes, i do this even with a CM on the team. Spamming spells is important.

Next I grab BoS then a point booster
make phase boots
Perseverance
Finish bloodstone

For me, the extension items are usually shivas + vlads (if no one on team is carrying one; already have the ring after all) then if it keeps going i'll pick up situational items like guinsoo or linken. If i've been drinking about halfway through the game I realize i've got an ulti-stick though : /
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:36 PM   #14
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Maybe you should just see what your team needs. If you need more of a tank, go bloodstone, if you need another disable, get guinsoo, and if you need more dps, get orchid.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:47 PM   #15
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get 4-6 clarities to have mana for early gangs and some tangoes
make phases for effective gangs and chasing
then arcane
and do a lot of wards to support the team

you don't need expensive items with ogre as 20 wards would do much better for the victory than hex or bloodstone
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Old 06-16-2009, 04:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper2 View Post
Guinsoo was better than scepter on Ogre before, and it's still the best int item, imo.

Still, Guinsoo's pieces are pretty pricey and Ogre (even if he has a great attack animation and a bunch of hps) is not the best farmer in the game.

The solution is to farm an Orchid before then go for Guinsoo if the game last longer. Orchid pieces are easy to obtain, and they gives Ogre mana+mana regen and a bit of dps too.

Orchid is a solid item on Ogre, giving him 60dmg, +30%ias, 260 MP and 225% mana regen plus Soul Burn. Combined with Bloodlust (50% IAS and 15% MS) it turns Ogre into a nice secondary dps source, giving him great support potential too (spammable stun, AoE snare, silence). Imo, Ogre is not meant to be played like a subpar Zeus, since he is so beefy, has a chaser skillsuit and has a spammable steroid spell too.

Guinsoo is the perfect luxury item on Ogre.
100% wrong, Guinsoo was NOT better than scepter on Ogre, Scepter was almost a requirement for him to do anything because he would NEVER EVER get a damn Multicast without it.
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:14 PM   #17
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That's right, Ogre needed Agh, but now Orchid seems great.

What about Multicasting a Soul Burned target?

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Old 06-16-2009, 05:14 PM   #18
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I think Jesper makes some great points, except that scepter was pimp on Magi....
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archbound View Post
100% wrong, Guinsoo was NOT better than scepter on Ogre, Scepter was almost a requirement for him to do anything because he would NEVER EVER get a damn Multicast without it.
a stun and a slow are pretty useful to a team, coupled with the hex.

sceptre was a luxury for people who wanted to be a "killer".
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Old 06-16-2009, 06:16 PM   #20
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How do you guys feel about Book on him? Manaregen will be an issue but manapool is quite improved and teh STR is never a bad thing. Ignite and Fireblast gives the creeps decent whacking time. Maybe voidstone then book?
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:25 PM   #21
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Book is good on him, though I am bad with micro managing, so I stay away from it
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDragun View Post
How do you guys feel about Book on him? Manaregen will be an issue but manapool is quite improved and teh STR is never a bad thing. Ignite and Fireblast gives the creeps decent whacking time. Maybe voidstone then book?
I think book is a great idea on paper, but I've never tried it on him.
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper2 View Post
Guinsoo was better than scepter on Ogre before, and it's still the best int item, imo.
This.
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archbound View Post
100% wrong, Guinsoo was NOT better than scepter on Ogre, Scepter was almost a requirement for him to do anything because he would NEVER EVER get a damn Multicast without it.
Because 10% difference changes it from never ever hitting, to hitting at 30%? I had no idea my math skills were so outdated as to not realise that. Thanks!
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:34 PM   #25
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I have always liked arcane ring on Ogre as it give him the mana he needs to be able to do spells. Then build either hex or bloodstone as it gives hp and mana.
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:39 PM   #26
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Going Arcane Ring -> Bloodstone/Guinsoo is overkill. You should be able to afford the Void Stone and a Point booster in a reasonable amount of time and that should take care of your mana issues. Even if you are going Guinsoo just go Void Stone -> Point booster -> Guinsoo. Spending 1200 on the point booster is still cheaper than buying arcane rings and a bracer.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:00 PM   #27
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I don't now what games you are playing, but for me, ogre still got supbar farming speed (nice last hitting....but that's all...), and by the time you'll farm a sheepstick, not only your opponents will be megafarmed, but worst, they'll get time to buy bkb/hood, and ogre will be a walking meat stack for the rest of the game.

My core build is :
-Bottle
-2 null
-Phase
-That's all ! (and a wand in case you are against a spam lane)

Ogre got a HUGE str gain (second best str gain of the whole game with treant...xD), you don't need to focus on HP.
Ogre got a big dmg increase with level 6 and 11 (with lvl 16 too....but games are usually won before that point), he should focus on getting the max of it rather than farming, he is a freaking Deus Gank Machina.

Add a point booster/void stone if you grab some kills, finish your bloodstone/sheepstick if you go beyond rapelike (but it won't happen in a game with serious opponents).

And arcane just delay to much your ganking ability, they're is many better arcane user.

I find the tooltip for his remaked ulti to be misleading...nobody (in pub games) understand that it give 95% to multi at lvl 16 (they usually go "lol ...in your dream...you're just megalucky")
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90% of pubs are won by 1 single player who single handedly carries his team of vanguard snipers.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:00 PM   #28
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arcane ring is damn good because it helps your allies out too. just throwing that out there. i'd get guinsoo over bloodstone any day.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:12 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archbound View Post
100% wrong, Guinsoo was NOT better than scepter on Ogre, Scepter was almost a requirement for him to do anything because he would NEVER EVER get a damn Multicast without it.
Sure, Multicast on Fireblast is a HUGE bonus. But imo, Ogre is just more than simply Fireblast spam, and with old Agha you were totally realiant on those Multicasts only. Moreover, Agha gave you no mana regen at all, making you a huge sitting duck when you ran oom.

Now that Scepter is gone, this is no longer relevant anyway, but i still think that Guinsoo was better than Agha as a luxury item on Ogre, for those reasons:

In 1v1 situations: there was a mathcraft post some time ago that showed how you had more dps and multicast % with guinsoo than with agha in a 1v1 situation.
Agha: 1 fireblast w/o fear of retaliation with increased %
Guinsoo: 2 fireblast w/o fear of retaliation with less % (fire+sheep+fire)
It turned out 2 fireblast with less % were more damaging than 1 fireblast with higher % on a medium basis.

In 5v5 situations: 2 disables are better than 1 in teamfigth.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoiabacon View Post
arcane ring is damn good because it helps your allies out too. just throwing that out there. I'd get hex over bloodstone any day.
This. If nobody else will be carrying arcane, go for it - great pushing aid. If someone else is rushing it, get a bottle. And yeah Guinsoo is a great luxury item and actually has a decent buildup for ogre.

If you're really concerned about health issues (since you're skipping soul booster) go for bottle, a couple of bracers and then go for ultimate orb.
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:00 AM   #31
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I really like to get useable items for ogre magi..

my first item on him is usually arcane ring -> also helps other heroes on pushes..
afterwards I try to get Difusal since purge is quite useful as well..
euls is not bad, it's a great disable and can give you time to cooldown fireblast..

force staff has become one of my favorite items for him, it's so damn cool to use =D you can push allies into reaching the enemies, pushing them out of a melee enemy's reach, push and enemy towards your allies... so many uses =) gotta love this item..
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:23 AM   #32
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Get whatever you need early: clarities, tango, bottle, null, bracer, phase boots
Then get guinsoo and you're done
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:32 AM   #33
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I use necrobook on Ogre. Int and Strength bonus FTW.

Ever thought of bloodlusting your minions?
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:37 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tresrosas View Post
I use necrobook on Ogre. Int and Strength bonus FTW.

Ever thought of bloodlusting your minions?
Genius. Going to play a game with this now.
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Old 06-17-2009, 06:06 AM   #35
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Phase>2xBracers>Orchid(MEGA easy build up)>Heart/Bfury.. although the game will be far over by the time you have orchid or maybe even before
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Old 06-17-2009, 06:15 AM   #36
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bloodstone+guinsoo..
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Old 06-17-2009, 07:36 AM   #37
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I had the same problem as OP, scepter gone I was thinking wth should I do. Ended up doing AR+Bloodstone a bit overblow later on. I think if you can get a good early bloodstone(around 18-24min). You can net few kills early on and get charges on the stone and be more useful to the team.

I still haven't decided what boots to get I usually go bots after the first item. Because ogre can help out really nicely when someone in your team is getting ganked and you tele there. But then again Phases are quite good for more EHP. phases or bots with bloodlust on you can outrun or catch most of the opponents anyway.
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Old 07-16-2009, 03:04 PM   #38
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I have a little bit of problem trying to compose the ideal item build for Orge Magi.

For now I find Thread a definite must because of its low AS and low mana.

I go Bloodstone immediately and so far, run into no problems with it. Yet.

I've tried Phase Boots with horrendous results.

So, other than Threads and Bloodstone, what else should I go?

Then, the ganking potential. I have seen the strength of Magi even before level 6. People tend to underestimate him, and too often I get first blood, dual or solo lane.

If I play him as solo, I would minimize ganking and harassing my enemy. Which means slaughtering them by tens or demising their laning capabilities. Still, should I try ganking other lanes? I tend to go Sentinel bottom or top Scourge with this hero. Is middle more feasible if I really want to gank?

Dual lane. First bloods came the easiest here. It was such a breeze I'm wondering whether I should gank much much more when it's dual.
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Old 07-16-2009, 03:43 PM   #39
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your a moron that is taking up too much farm

What?!


buy wards, Work for hex
Go phase

l2 support
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Old 07-16-2009, 03:59 PM   #40
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well before the multicast nerf i use to go..

wand > persv > int tread > bfury > vlad > buriza
godlike 2-3 tda games w/ that. multicast was so imba

havent played him since the lower % of multicast tho.

edit: fyi i had zero mana issue w/ that build. dont think he ever need anything like bloodstone.
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