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Old 03-01-2011, 01:57 PM   #1
physics223
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Default How to farm more efficiently?


I've been posting a lot of threads, so I'm sorry if I bother some people. I started playing DotA roughly four years ago, and have slowly improved at it through time. I can sincerely rate myself to be an above average player, but I still have this overly careful, defensive mentality. It's all right if I don't really kill the enemy so long as I don't end up dead. It's been a carry over from my support-oriented days (not the tournament-definition of support, but support nevertheless). The thing is, nowadays, in our in-houses I'm one of the best players on our team so I have to play the carries that scale well throughout the game. Since our enemies rarely utilize push strats, it works most of the time if I farm like fuck carefully for the first 30 minutes and then just eat the enemies up when I get fat.

The thing is, I'm trying to be more of a ganker/semi-carry than just either support or hard carry, so I've been playing Nevermore and Mirana more and more. I have little problems with laning; I know how to enter team battles and sometimes juke; I just don't know how to farm as fast as those tournament players, even with so much opposition. I want to develop that flash-farming aspect to my gameplay to round myself out, especially because that's one of the biggest problems I have.

Do you have any tips? I can last hit with Nevermore well although not as efficiently as the pros, and I can hit most offensive razes in lane, although I haven't perfected them yet in clashes (there's about 3 to 4 WTF or badly positioned razes still in a game). How do you farm more efficiently?

Thanks for reading.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:49 PM   #2
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(title should be "how to GANK more efficiently", right?)

I`m in a situation a bit similar to yours. I`m finishign my 4th year of DotA and my prevailing style is farm/carrying. There is no problem, everyone have their own style and prefered heroes.

Now if you wanna try leaving your comfort zone and try going for early clashes, there are some important things to say:

1) I salute your courage. Most people just stay at what they are good and never try changing. You`ll notice how better you get after trying new styles.

2) Prepare to die and fail. A LOT. Different from carry, gank players must see and think in totally different ways. Just abbandon any long-term thought and focus on quick thinking, mapa awareness and - most important - learn how to cooperate with your ganking mates. Until you get used to it you`ll fail a lot, but don`t let that frustrate you.

3) As you`re beginning, first try focusing at little specific roles and get proper heroes for that. My suggetions for gank-starter are: Neru (killer), Ogre Magi (tankish, you won`t die easily), Lion and Akasha (blink really helps)

4) Ganks, more often than not, tend to be decided on how many heroes are in them. So, before going around ganking, check if your team has at least as many players ganking as your enemies.

5) Watch videos on youtube. They teach, inspire and give some interesting tips on important stuff, such as fog abuse, cooldown awareness and others. go to youtube and type "DotA Perceptive Play" or "How to DotA (black lotus)"

6) Finally, once you`re ganking, change your item build properly. Instead of BoT-Skadi-whatever, think rather of getting life (stuns and nuke rule) and useful stuff, such as Magic Wand, Urn of Shadows, Janggo, Force Staff.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:50 PM   #3
Mr.Greedy
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Default Re: How to farm more efficiently?
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Watch replays of good players and observe how they farm.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:54 PM   #4
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It shouldn't take 30 min to get the farm to wreck pubs. You can normally build a large enough farm differential in 14-18 min and then just feed on people.

Knowing when to farm and when to be in fights is a massive part of playing semicarrys.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:09 PM   #5
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really, it's not called farming. it's called laning.
there's so much of it, I can't possible describe it in one post.
but most of it is lane control, creep equilibrium, and mindgames.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: How to farm more efficiently?
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For flash farming, attack each creep till their hp is low enough for your aoe nuke to kill of in one go. Normally this is around 300 hp.

Try and always keep a tp on you as well.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:49 PM   #7
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on yutube i saw some vid of luminous teachin how to farm while maintaining the creep equilibrium...
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:53 PM   #8
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He gets fat from hero kills. You have to really mix up the team fights with the farm. If your mid, try not to sit in the lane for ages.

1) get a bottle and try dominate the runes
2) I make it my goal to try kill mid at lvl 3
3) I then make it my goal to gank a side lane at lvl 5

Use your razes to take out stacked waves, carry a tp and try involve yourself in those early game team fights.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:06 PM   #9
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^Nevermore is unlikely to kill the opposing solo at 3 unless you get incredibly lucky with runes and/or opponents play really badly.
Level 5 to kill off the mid solo is more acceptable, and i would gank at 7 as by that time you will also have farmed up your bottle + boots/treads.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:12 PM   #10
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Your farm will eventually reach a limit, dota is a game of teamwork. If you can't enter the lane to take the creeps cause your team mates failed to control the map.

That's why competitive players can farm.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireblaze762 View Post
^Nevermore is unlikely to kill the opposing solo at 3 unless you get incredibly lucky with runes and/or opponents play really badly.
Level 5 to kill off the mid solo is more acceptable, and i would gank at 7 as by that time you will also have farmed up your bottle + boots/treads.
Umm if your harassing in your lane, killing a half hp intel or agi is pretty cake for nevermore if he can get all 3 razes or on the odd occasion 2 razes.

Also if you have a haste rune or dd and they're out of position your guranteed a kill.

That's the difference from an avg mid to a dominate mid.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:24 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by MikeTAR View Post
Umm if your harassing in your lane, killing a half hp intel or agi is pretty cake for nevermore if he can get all 3 razes or on the odd occasion 2 razes.

Also if you have a haste rune or dd and they're out of position your guranteed a kill.

That's the difference from an avg mid to a dominate mid.
Except this isn't going to happen unless you are against a massive pub. Level 5 razes do enough damage that you can effectively punish the opposing solo for being out of place and score a kill. Level 3 razes are not this powerful.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:09 AM   #13
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Default Re: How to farm more efficiently?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by physics223 View Post
I've been posting a lot of threads, so I'm sorry if I bother some people. I started playing DotA roughly four years ago, and have slowly improved at it through time. I can sincerely rate myself to be an above average player, but I still have this overly careful, defensive mentality. It's all right if I don't really kill the enemy so long as I don't end up dead. It's been a carry over from my support-oriented days (not the tournament-definition of support, but support nevertheless). The thing is, nowadays, in our in-houses I'm one of the best players on our team so I have to play the carries that scale well throughout the game. Since our enemies rarely utilize push strats, it works most of the time if I farm like fuck carefully for the first 30 minutes and then just eat the enemies up when I get fat.

The thing is, I'm trying to be more of a ganker/semi-carry than just either support or hard carry, so I've been playing Nevermore and Mirana more and more. I have little problems with laning; I know how to enter team battles and sometimes juke; I just don't know how to farm as fast as those tournament players, even with so much opposition. I want to develop that flash-farming aspect to my gameplay to round myself out, especially because that's one of the biggest problems I have.

Do you have any tips? I can last hit with Nevermore well although not as efficiently as the pros, and I can hit most offensive razes in lane, although I haven't perfected them yet in clashes (there's about 3 to 4 WTF or badly positioned razes still in a game). How do you farm more efficiently?

Thanks for reading.
Keep practicing last hitting skills until it is like your second nature.
Every hero's last hitting time is a bit different. so it is not that easy.
and You need to be good enough to be harrassing inferior laner too with your superior range.
Timing, knowledge of the game, and excution are the keys to laning.

and also try to keep your map awareness even though you are focused on last hitting, so that you dont get ganked.

and the last part about the game that I am too lazy to learn even this many years are the timing of runes and creeps.
against not pro teams, it is easy to stack creeps and then PROFIT.
and grabbing the runes at key times is important.

there are guides about them, I think it is important to know how to farm neutral effectively, because not all the time you can farm enemy creeps.
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Old 03-02-2011, 07:52 AM   #14
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Never stuck on the same item build and never be afraid to try new builds,skill build on heroes like Nevermore and others.Try to stuck more with ur team coz the money and the farm will be given to u by them and the most important thing about the carry hero is NEVER initiate a battle.Let ur other semi-carryes to initiate and then come and clear the zone
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:03 AM   #15
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Nevermore and potm got almost the same playstyle at the begining. Dont take any kind of risks untill you have your core. Just farm and farm carefully. After bkb on nevermore and some survivability on potm you can start doing stuff different from farming.

As a nevermore with bkb you can start pushing with your team and try to force team fights. The other option is to push a lane alone while the rest of your team are pressuring. Do not gank... just focus on pushing and taking down towers. Take fights, but dont take ganks. Farm and push and take towers. This is what SF is strong at.

As a potm I would rather push the lanes alone and force them to chase me all over the map. This will make me stronger because while pushing I am also farming and will buy time for my team mates to farm also. You can set up biting traps also but this recuires a bit more coordination. Potm is very under estimated dpser so with some items she can carry games. The thing with her is to pick the correct items or more specific the correct orb. Thus I suggest you to go for manta first which will allow you to push faster and bite easier and then pick up an orb depending on the situation. If they got more bks - desolator, if they got mp dependent heros or str casters - diffusial, if you are going to fight a horde of summons - mjonir. With potm the main idea is to make them chase you and put them out of possition. You can take ganks and solo pushes, but you do need to be good at escaping.

Why I wrote this whole wall? Its important to know what your hero is good at strategically in order to safe time from doing crap which will give additional time for farming which at itself will give you a better farm.

Lets take spectre as another example. She is good at beeing able in every team fight or gank her team wants her. So all she needs to do all the time is to farm, farm and farm and press one key and be at a fight. She doesnt need to push like SF, she doesnt need to solo push towers and make bites like potm. She needs to concentrate on farming and creep flows.

Morfling at the other hand is good at ganks and fight and very mobile. He can do everything depending on his team strategy.

Meduza and Alchemist are good for tower pushing as they can tank quete well. But despite SF they need a bit more farming time thus their pushes should come later.
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Old 03-02-2011, 11:26 AM   #16
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If it's Nevermore you want, you're not getting better advice from anywhere other than 2009 himself. Watch me. (And other 2 in the series so far)

If it's about any hero, it has many factors. One of the most important ones are getting used to your hero's attack animation and, if you're playing competitively, which I'll assume here due to your 1st post, to have map awareness not to get killed by roaming VSs, CMs, ESs etc. Also, carrying TPs to get to a better farming position, escape from incoming ganks. Utilizing neutral creeps to the most of your extent. Support players in your team are also a big factor as they need to protect you properly if you're on lane like morph vs. invoker, hence dual/tri lanes.

With nevermore you HAVE to farm once you've died, make it imperative to regain the 30 souls, unless there's like a teamclash 5 meters from you. In the start if you're dominating a lane, stay on it and try killing the opponent as much as possible. While he's dead try to get a few ganks off. If you're losing your lane, focus on ganking or getting your teammates to help you gank the opponent, never forget that SF is a hero which can regain his farm that he lost in 10 minutes in mere 2 minutes due to insane flashfarming abilities. Also, it's always useful to kill a few neutrals when you're waiting for a gank, creeps on your lane are pushed too far, enemy ganker is waiting near your lane. After some 10 minutes however, nevermore needs to start controlling the game, that's when his razes are the most powerful and ganks are your primary concern, however, you still need your bkb/dagger and try not to join fail ganks like support heroes have to, only the ones you know will succeed, just farm till an opportunity arrives. But don't overdo it. SF farms fast, you're not dusa, you don't perma-farm. If there's a teamclash when you have 60 souls, you're in it, no questions asked, especially if it's around that period, you're by far the strongest hero in the game (especially if you won your lane), utilize your power. Later on pushing lanes around is a useful way to farm as you go as SF does it incredibly fast. Just one hint that I see many players do wrong: if there's a fight late game and creeps are pushing into your base, you don't go defend, SF is one of the strongest teamfight heroes in the game, and must always be present in one.

Well, that's in short what I could write about SF. I've been playing the hero in a semi-competitive environment for a long time now and this is what I can share from my knowledge, hopefully some hints were useful. Still don't forget to watch 2009's advices, he's surely better than me
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Old 03-02-2011, 11:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireblaze762 View Post
For flash farming, attack each creep till their hp is low enough for your aoe nuke to kill of in one go. Normally this is around 300 hp.

Try and always keep a tp on you as well.
Probably this, since you will finish the creepwave much faster, giving you more time to gank. Works like a charm on Mirana, but you need an item build with good mana regeneration to pull it off succesfully.
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:11 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by .Hellspawn View Post
If it's Nevermore you want, you're not getting better advice from anywhere other than 2009 himself. Watch me. (And other 2 in the series so far)

If it's about any hero, it has many factors. One of the most important ones are getting used to your hero's attack animation and, if you're playing competitively, which I'll assume here due to your 1st post, to have map awareness not to get killed by roaming VSs, CMs, ESs etc. Also, carrying TPs to get to a better farming position, escape from incoming ganks. Utilizing neutral creeps to the most of your extent. Support players in your team are also a big factor as they need to protect you properly if you're on lane like morph vs. invoker, hence dual/tri lanes.

With nevermore you HAVE to farm once you've died, make it imperative to regain the 30 souls, unless there's like a teamclash 5 meters from you. In the start if you're dominating a lane, stay on it and try killing the opponent as much as possible. While he's dead try to get a few ganks off. If you're losing your lane, focus on ganking or getting your teammates to help you gank the opponent, never forget that SF is a hero which can regain his farm that he lost in 10 minutes in mere 2 minutes due to insane flashfarming abilities. Also, it's always useful to kill a few neutrals when you're waiting for a gank, creeps on your lane are pushed too far, enemy ganker is waiting near your lane. After some 10 minutes however, nevermore needs to start controlling the game, that's when his razes are the most powerful and ganks are your primary concern, however, you still need your bkb/dagger and try not to join fail ganks like support heroes have to, only the ones you know will succeed, just farm till an opportunity arrives. But don't overdo it. SF farms fast, you're not dusa, you don't perma-farm. If there's a teamclash when you have 60 souls, you're in it, no questions asked, especially if it's around that period, you're by far the strongest hero in the game (especially if you won your lane), utilize your power. Later on pushing lanes around is a useful way to farm as you go as SF does it incredibly fast. Just one hint that I see many players do wrong: if there's a fight late game and creeps are pushing into your base, you don't go defend, SF is one of the strongest teamfight heroes in the game, and must always be present in one.

Well, that's in short what I could write about SF. I've been playing the hero in a semi-competitive environment for a long time now and this is what I can share from my knowledge, hopefully some hints were useful. Still don't forget to watch 2009's advices, he's surely better than me
Thanks for the comments, guys. I manage Blink Dagger/Boots within 10 minutes. I know it's not fast, but it really doesn't come faster for me even with neutral stacks if I'm sentinel. I usually get about ~40-50 creeps during that time, and I'm quite wary of ganks as well. I only pick Nevermore when it's not up to me to initiate, so Dagger first works quite a bit now. I can hit most X and C razes, but I have difficulty razing with Z especially after blinking in. I should practice on that more.

I watched 2009's videos. He's a fucking beast. I know he could be better, and he says that himself, but to miss only 4 razes over the course of the game is fucking imba. I never saw Urn on Nevermore before, but he's ... very perceptive of the game and he's a better strategist than PIS.
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:19 PM   #19
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Basically there is one item which makes your farm increase tenfold, it is called Boots of Travel.

Best on Morphling since he gets Percy too and has replisex, but on SF. You don't even need any skill, and you can get your second core after Travels up in about 5-10 minutes time.

Other items which make your farm go ^^^^^^^^ include Midas, Radiance, Maelstrom, Vanguard, Lifesteal, Medallion, Armlet
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Last edited by LiquidNitrogen; 03-03-2011 at 05:44 AM.
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