[Tweak] Thunder Clap

[God_ii]

I suggest changing current thunder clap to this:

Thunder ClapAbility Type: Active
Targeting Type: Area
Ability Hotkey : C

__________

Slams the ground, dealing damage and slowing the movement speed and attack rate of nearby enemy land units. Units that are under the effects of drunken haze will trip, momentarily stunning themselves and taking damage.

__	____.	________.	_______.	___.	_______.	__________________________.
	Mana	Cooldown	C. Range	AoE	Duration	Effects
1	90	12	N/A	400	4.25 seconds/*.25 seconds	Deals 70 damage (120 to the units with the drunken haze buff) and slows movement speed and attack speed by 25%
2	105	12	N/A	400	4.25 seconds/*.5 seconds	Deals 145 damage (195 to the units with the drunken haze buff) and slows movement speed and attack speed by 35%
3	130	12	N/A	400	4.25 seconds/*.75 seconds	Deals 220 damage (270 to the units with the drunken haze buff) and slows movement speed and attack speed by 45%
4	150	12	N/A	400	4.25 seconds/*1 second	Deals 270 damage (320 to the units with the drunken haze buff) and slows movement speed and attack speed by 55%

Notes:

• Damage Type: Magical
• * shows the stun duration on the unit with the drunken haze buff

(30 less damage on every level to compensate for added synergy)
Why?
If u have ever played ladder, u would kno that panda is very similar to the panda in ladder with only a few changes. one of them is that drunken haze synergizes with breathe fire. so i made drunken haze have more synergy with thunder clap, letting panda stop channeling and letting him do more damage to one target, hopefully w/o making him imba. any number suggestions would be helpful since i dont want him to be overpowered.

thoughts?

[aestropher]

At least it's better than current.

[justsightseeing]

buff and a forced synergy?
idk, he's already strong at his current state..

[God_ii]

Originally Posted by justsightseeing

buff and a forced synergy?
idk, he's already strong at his current state..

like i said, im just making him more like his ladder counterpart. damage, stun time, etc. can be lowered if needed (.5 sec stun all lvls mb?)

[NMC]

This is more like a nerf to me since it's forced synergy and increased damage is only 20 greater than current. Furthermore, this combo costs you 200 mana at max level (150 for clap and 50 for haze) which kinda lots for panda. I think he doesn't have enough mana to afford repeated combo. I know he is not supposed to spam it, but still.... Any idea on this?

EDIT: oh nevermind I guess cause he already got extra stun there.

[rageagainst]

Synergy.. I like it. Careful on the numbers tho. T-up on the concept.

[Mr. Burns]

T-up!

[Unnamed_]

Well, it makes no sense. If a unit is drunk, it will trip even without being slowed. Not only that, you nerf panda by decreasing overral AoE damage and forcing him to use more mana to do the damage of the current skill on a target.
Second, your reasoning isn't valid. Ladder Panda and DotA Panda may look alike, but that means nothing. Ladder Panda is balanced for Ladder, this one is balanced for DotA.
And Panda already has a stun and a cyclone.

(And before someone asks, Knight Davion's Breathe Fire does not do bonus damage if the enemy unit has Drunken Haze on him)

[Monsterlord]

I love it. It's a very small buff, but it's all Panda needs really. It's barely a nerf either, the reduction in damage is minor, and Thunderclap was already considered very strong. It also can't be considered forced synergy, because the skill does the same thing it always has. Now it simply has a new option.

[God_ii]

Originally Posted by Unnamed_

Well, it makes no sense. If a unit is drunk, it will trip even without being slowed. Not only that, you nerf panda by decreasing overral AoE damage and forcing him to use more mana to do the damage of the current skill on a target.
Second, your reasoning isn't valid. Ladder Panda and DotA Panda may look alike, but that means nothing. Ladder Panda is balanced for Ladder, this one is balanced for DotA.
And Panda already has a stun and a cyclone.

(And before someone asks, Knight Davion's Breathe Fire does not do bonus damage if the enemy unit has Drunken Haze on him)

thanks for your opinion. when people are drunk, usually (in my experience) they dont fall over, they kinda wobble around and ground shaking would make them fall over

anyway, my reasoning is that ladder and dota panda both have: drunken haze, drunken brawler, and ult, albeit numbers are different. my thinking goes is that drunken haze can have some synergy with thunder clap, but both skills are fine on their own.

anymore suggestions on numbers? i could change it so that clap only has 20 or so reduced damage than current

[justsightseeing]

the logic is:
when the ground is shaked, normal ppl tend to dizzy thus, make them move slower for a period of time.
when a drunk ppl feel the ground shaked.. the shocked and then trip.. quite make sense to me..
i like the concept and hope ice somehow could make this idea work..

[HellsGuardian]

why is it needed? he already is strong and now u want him to cancel channels with long range haze + aoe....

T-down

[Unnamed_]

Originally Posted by God_ii

anymore suggestions on numbers? i could change it so that clap only has 20 or so reduced damage than current

I didn't vote on numbers. That is the last thing I do when I vote. I voted no on the idea of buffing an already stable and strong hero (too strong in certain line-ups). If not that, then I voted no on the idea of forcing Panda players to level a skill that is weak for early game and restricts mana useage even more.

Not only that, I mentioned that Panda has 2 ways of breaking channels and does not need any more.

[God_ii]

Originally Posted by Unnamed_

I didn't vote on numbers. That is the last thing I do when I vote. I voted no on the idea of buffing an already stable and strong hero (too strong in certain line-ups). If not that, then I voted no on the idea of forcing Panda players to level a skill that is weak for early game and restricts mana useage even more.

Not only that, I mentioned that Panda has 2 ways of breaking channels and does not need any more.

yes, but his 2 ways of breaking channels is from an ultimate that has a 140 sec cd at highest lvl. not to mention it takes at least 2 sec to split and click stun/cyclone on the unit

[Monsterlord]

I didn't vote on numbers. That is the last thing I do when I vote. I voted no on the idea of buffing an already stable and strong hero (too strong in certain line-ups). If not that, then I voted no on the idea of forcing Panda players to level a skill that is weak for early game and restricts mana useage even more.

Not only that, I mentioned that Panda has 2 ways of breaking channels and does not need any more.

Panda has became rather underused since his ultimate received come nerfs, which is a shame. He's a fun hero, and certainly one who deserves his share of the limelight.

As for "forcing" the players to level Haze early, no. Thunder Clap is just as useful without Drunken Haze as it always has been; it is still a powerful aoe slow. It has lost almost nothing compared to it's current version, 30 damage is completely ignorable, while it has gained a little bit of utility and a little bit more use during late game, which is a place where Panda loses out.

Besides, Brawler is a skill you should avoid leveling early. A point in Haze is perfectly acceptable.

[aestropher]

^This.

[God_ii]

anymore thoughts? or does noone care about our panda

[sd19]

Kinda like the concept since the enemy gets dizzy cause of the haze and dizzier when Panda slams the ground. LOL~

[BorisPeace-]

I like it (:

[dsbn]

This is good.