Suggestions forum discussion: Filtering system

[coolake]

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

I'm against making people anonymous. Imo it ruins the forum atmosphere, having all-anonymous posting.

I see it as more of a benefit to ruin the forum atmosphere. It could remove most of the forum members that constantly post suggestions based solely on pride.

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

Only noobs judge from post count.

Do you know this? If so, how do you know?

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

The current idea is to have everyone look at your ideas

And you can do that by removing post and view counts from the threads in the thread listing page and making members anonymous so people don't just view the suggestion because they are familiar with member that created it.

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

and give constructing feedback. I don't care if someone is new here (1 post) but he gives constructive criticism.

I think this can be fixed by a sort of a disciplinary system where anyone who does not post feedback which is construction criticism (explanations) will receive a warning and then, if repeated, a temporary posting suspension on the suggestions forum.

[Lotus V Eater]

Originally Posted by coolake

I think this can be fixed by a sort of a disciplinary system where anyone who does not post feedback which is construction criticism (explanations) will receive a warning and then, if repeated, a temporary posting suspension on the suggestions forum.

huhuhu that quite harsh but i kinda like it...

[Vot1_Bear]

Originally Posted by coolake

I see it as more of a benefit to ruin the forum atmosphere. It could remove most of the forum members that constantly post suggestions based solely on pride.

Agreed, but i prefer to have them troll rather than not knowing who should i thank if s/he has given a great comment

Do you know this? If so, how do you know?

Alright alright, I'm exaggerating.

And you can do that by removing post and view counts from the threads in the thread listing page and making members anonymous so people don't just view the suggestion because they are familiar with member that created it.

Removing post+View counts: Good.
the rest: Disagreement.
Basically, sometimes being familiar with the member that created it might help. I would be very excited to open a terresquall thread, prioritizing it first if i haven't got enough time. And it can avoid troll*cough*broodmother*cough* threads

For me, i visit every thread. i basically don't pay attention to who made it/how many posts it got, as long as i've not seen it before. The forums had already done a good job making the creator's name small, so that only those who cares about the creator will pay attention

I think this can be fixed by a sort of a disciplinary system where anyone who does not post feedback which is construction criticism (explanations) will receive a warning and then, if repeated, a temporary posting suspension on the suggestions forum.

Might work We need to post it on a "Rules" thread though, to justify the warnings. And it must be stickied ofc

Basically imo this thread (And the other sugg forum discussion) should be located on top of the subforums. i barely noticed the existence of this thread

[coolake]

Basically, sometimes being familiar with the member that created it might help. I would be very excited to open a terresquall thread, prioritizing it first if i haven't got enough time. And it can avoid troll threads

The benefits of making all members anonymous far outweigh the consequences you just pointed out here.

-It ensures that all ideas get checked by everyone.

-It stops members from posting ideas based on pride. This could remove ALOT of members who are only motivated by the desire to be recognized. The main point of a filtering system is to reduce the number of posts, most of which are bad. This would do it.

-All ideas would be examined by members more carefully since they wouldn't be able to judge by appearances (familiarity with creator, post count, quantity of suggestions in sig)

For me, i visit every thread. i basically don't pay attention to who made it/how many posts it got, as long as i've not seen it before.

Sadly, not everyone is like you.

The forums had already done a good job making the creator's name small, so that only those who cares about the creator will pay attention

Do you mean small as in 'unknown'?

...

I actually don't understand this last part here.

[Mazil]

-All ideas would be examined by members more carefully since they wouldn't be able to judge by appearances (familiarity with creator, post count, quantity of suggestions in sig)

Perhaps there also needs to be a ban on suggestion links in signatures?

(maybe only for heroes, items, abilities... if they will be the only forums that are anonymous)

[Vot1_Bear]

Originally Posted by coolake

The benefits of making all members anonymous far outweigh the consequences you just pointed out here.

-It ensures that all ideas get checked by everyone.

-It stops members from posting ideas based on pride. This could remove ALOT of members who are only motivated by the desire to be recognized. The main point of a filtering system is to reduce the number of posts, most of which are bad. This would do it.

-All ideas would be examined by members more carefully since they wouldn't be able to judge by appearances (familiarity with creator, post count, quantity of suggestions in sig)

Imo those kind of people who judge by appearance are not that much. I really wouldn't like visiting a thread where everyone is anonymous, imo it's really fun to know all the members and how they respond to the idea. All-anonymous might make the suggs forum less visited.

Sadly, not everyone is like you.

Just an example


Do you mean small as in 'unknown'?

...

I actually don't understand this last part here.

The "creator's name" font size is already small, and the color is also hard to notice. Imo because of that most of people won't pay attention to it, only those who judge suggs based on its suggester will.

I know the issue about post counts and pride-posting, but there's already Dota Chat and Random chat to fulfill all your posting needs. Just make a rule that prohibits non-constructive criticism, like you've said in your previous post

[coolake]

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

Imo those kind of people who judge by appearance are not that much. I really wouldn't like visiting a thread where everyone is anonymous, imo it's really fun to know all the members and how they respond to the idea. All-anonymous might make the suggs forum less visited.

That's the whole point. To make the suggestions forum more serious and less fun. By making it more boring, we reduce the number of posters looking to party, and instead we could direct them to DotA chat or perhaps comedy chat.

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

The "creator's name" font size is already small, and the color is also hard to notice. Imo because of that most of people won't pay attention to it, only those who judge suggs based on its suggester will.

Well then, let's ensure the rest don't judge by it, and take it away.

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

I know the issue about post counts and pride-posting, but there's already Dota Chat and Random chat to fulfill all your posting needs. Just make a rule that prohibits non-constructive criticism, like you've said in your previous post

The problem here is not posting in threads, but posting threads. I don't think it's allowed or accepted to post suggestions in DotA chat or random chat.

The filtering system should be aimed towards reducing the amount of threads created in the suggestions forum, and what can assist this in working is making members anonymous.

[Vot1_Bear]

Originally Posted by coolake

That's the whole point. To make the suggestions forum more serious and less fun. By making it more boring, we reduce the number of posters looking to party, and instead we could direct them to DotA chat or perhaps comedy chat.

Too boring might not be good for suggesters. they need to be creative

Well then, let's ensure the rest don't judge by it, and take it away.

Haven't thought of that before. Nice one, just remove the thread creator name. Might help the situation without having to turn everyone anonymous

The problem here is not posting in threads, but posting threads. I don't think it's allowed or accepted to post suggestions in DotA chat or random chat.

The only problems we have now is QQ-no-sugg threads. And that imo can be solved by stickying a rules thread on the top of suggestions forum. There's not many troll threads in suggestions, and most troll threads are NOT made for increasing post counts (*cough*Broodmother*cough*)

The filtering system should be aimed towards reducing the amount of threads created in the suggestions forum, and what can assist this in working is making members anonymous.

I understand, but still imo too serious might not be good for the suggs forums. Friendly environment will motivate suggsters to suggest something good. Everyone has a small part in them that loves to get t-ups, including me ofc. (and i believe a part of you agrees, be honest )

Sorry for the hard-to-quote replies, but i'm too lazy.

[Fate Trap]

@coolake

What's the point of a forum if there's no fun?

[coolake]

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

Too boring might not be good for suggesters. they need to be creative

What makes a suggestion any less creative if everyone were to be anonymous?

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

The only problems we have now is QQ-no-sugg threads.

What's this?

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

There's not many troll threads in suggestions, and most troll threads are NOT made for increasing post counts (*cough*Broodmother*cough*

I'm confused here, why are you speaking about troll threads?

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

I understand, but still imo too serious might not be good for the suggs forums. Friendly environment will motivate suggsters to suggest something good.

Why won't something "too serious" work? And what is this "friendly environment" mean? Are you implying that what I'm suggesting will make everyone unkind and offensive? And how will this friendly environment "motivate suggesters to suggest something good"?

Please explain more, I don't understand.

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

Everyone has a small part in them that loves to get t-ups, including me ofc. (and i believe a part of you agrees, be honest )

I like getting T-ups, but only if it's the truth. One thing I wouldn't like is for someone to come into my suggestion thread and say "T-up check mine suggestions out ". I prefer truthful constructive criticism ONLY.

@coolake

What's the point of a forum if there's no fun?

The point of making it serious is because it's a forum that suggests what is going to be implemented into the actual game. The same game we are all on these forums because of. Why should it not be serious? I don't see the point of making it a themepark or a home to people who just wanna shit their ideas all over the forum and hope someone admires it.

[Vot1_Bear]

Originally Posted by coolake

What makes a suggestion any less creative if everyone were to be anonymous?

If everyone is anonymous, it'll be less fun. Imo fun=good mood, and having a good mood might just help enhance creativity. Being in a serious environment for too long is boring, and thus might reduce creativity

What's this? (QQ threads)

A thread that only says "I don't like this, because this this that, so please someone change this" without actually suggesting something

I'm confused here, why are you speaking about troll threads?

Ahem. You're saying that post count provokes new forumers to post new no-good threads. I don't agree, because most of the time the only 'bad' threads i encounter in visuals are:
A. QQ threads (explained above)
B. Troll threads (Suggesting an icon that DEFINITELY doesn't fit/too 3d/etc)
QQ threads can be solved by putting up some clear rules. However, troll threads doesn't only come from new people. In fact most of it comes from the regular forum trolls.

Why won't something "too serious" work? And what is this "friendly environment" mean? Are you implying that what I'm suggesting will make everyone unkind and offensive? And how will this friendly environment "motivate suggesters to suggest something good"?

Please explain more, I don't understand.

This is purely my own opinion and situation, but getting although some forumers like to be serious, some other don't. Too serious = boring, and as i've stated above a boring environment might fend off creative ideas.
I'm not implying that it'll make everyone unkind and offensive, but somehow it's just a good thing to know other forumers and how they think.
It's normal to get a T-D from BL. That way, his t-d is less discouraging than getting t-d frm others.

I like getting T-ups, but only if it's the truth. One thing I wouldn't like is for someone to come into my suggestion thread and say "T-up check mine suggestions out ". I prefer truthful constructive criticism ONLY.

There's barely anyone doing that in visuals. If you're talking about hero suggestions, then it can't be helped. 80% of it is made up of trolls.

The point of making it serious is because it's a forum that suggests what is going to be implemented into the actual game. The same game we are all on these forums because of. Why should it not be serious? I don't see the point of making it a themepark or a home to people who just wanna shit their ideas all over the forum and hope someone admires it.

And this is about a fucking game. what do you expect from a forum about a game? If this is some kinda world debate forum i accept the serious environment, but this suggestions are for a game ffs. People who littered this sacred forums has already got his punishment in the form of t-d and possibly heavy flaming.

Imo removing post counts is enough, it solves the problems without creating any new problem. Don't go too further and create an overly boring environment, as it might just give more Cons than pros

[Mazil]

^Sorry if this is a silly question but you mean Removing post counts across the entire Playdota Forums, right?

[coolake]

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

If everyone is anonymous, it'll be less fun. Imo fun=good mood, and having a good mood might just help enhance creativity. Being in a serious environment for too long is boring, and thus might reduce creativity

Where did you get the bizarre idea that good mood=creativity?

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

Ahem. You're saying that post count provokes new forumers to post new no-good threads.

I'm confused again, please point out where I said this.

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

I don't agree, because most of the time the only 'bad' threads i encounter in visuals are:
A. QQ threads (explained above)
B. Troll threads (Suggesting an icon that DEFINITELY doesn't fit/too 3d/etc)
QQ threads can be solved by putting up some clear rules. However, troll threads doesn't only come from new people. In fact most of it comes from the regular forum trolls.

Yes, I agree with putting up strict rules, but what's this have to do with anonymity? Troll threads and QQ-threads require an entirely different method of filtering. I'm talking about the people who post too many suggestions motivated by pride.

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

I'm not implying that it'll make everyone unkind and offensive, but somehow it's just a good thing to know other forumers and how they think.
It's normal to get a T-D from BL. That way, his t-d is less discouraging than getting t-d frm others.

What should matter here is what the individual giving the T-D has to say, not who that individual actually is.

"-All ideas would be examined by members more carefully since they wouldn't be able to judge by appearances (familiarity with creator, post count, quantity of suggestions in sig)"

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

And this is about a fucking game. what do you expect from a forum about a game? If this is some kinda world debate forum i accept the serious environment, but this suggestions are for a game ffs.

Calm down please, this isn't a thread for raging.

Despite the fact that it is a game, there are things which need to be taken seriously in order to make the game itself fun. Balance is one example, and look how the balance forums are. The way I see it, suggestions should be the same.

[JJE92]

Originally Posted by coolake

The benefits of making all members anonymous far outweigh the consequences you just pointed out here.

-It ensures that all ideas get checked by everyone.

-It stops members from posting ideas based on pride. This could remove ALOT of members who are only motivated by the desire to be recognized. The main point of a filtering system is to reduce the number of posts, most of which are bad. This would do it.

-All ideas would be examined by members more carefully since they wouldn't be able to judge by appearances (familiarity with creator, post count, quantity of suggestions in sig)

No, at hero suggestions only those with a good layout will be reviewed. It will never happen that everyone checks out all ideas, that's simply impossible.

There are ways to go around anonymity, like saying which suggestions are yours either in your suggestion or on your profile or through other ways. You'd have to fight these.

The problem with pride argument is that IceFrog still has to give credits if he implements threads, so you'd still know it's your suggestion, so people will make suggestions, even if only they know that their ideas have been implemented (although they could again go around anonymity in some ways.


For the last point, we have to see where there are such problems:
To be honest, I don't think there are any of such problems in remake or visual sub-forum. There are not that many suggestions and reviewing them goes faster than in hero ideas subforums.
The only sub-forum where this would make sense is the hero ideas subforum. For the other subforums it would only have disadvantages and no real advantages by itself.

But, you haven't read my post at the first page:

I can see the point in making all posts anonymous. However, this will also destroy the atmosphere in this forum to some considerable extent. Meeting people here that you know from playing or just working with people on some suggestions is an important part of the community. If we make everything anonymous, this won't be possible anymore, it will be hard to find out the people that have a similar viewpoints, so that you can collaborate with them.
Overall, it could help for voting, but apart from this, I think it has more cons than pros.

There are two major problems:
a) the atmosphere. Anonymity attracts trolls even more (see 4chan for examples) and prevents some good things.
b) Collaboration will become very hard if you don't know who is who.
Last but not least, what will become of the contests with anonymity?

But anyway, coming back to the real point, the filtering system (anonymity by itself isn't filtering). Anonymity only makes sense with voting, that's where it actually would help.
However, as I explained in my last post, any kind of polls are redundant and not something that we need, they filter something that is pointless to filter.

[coolake]

Originally Posted by JJE92

Wall of text

That makes sense. I'll stay out of this thread for awhile since I'm out of ideas. Thank you for at least giving reasons to the flaws you pointed out in the idea of anonymity.

[E02K]

My idea:+1 for Iron Fist Mod
and if they pass the Iron Fist Mod they can be sorted into categories like:
-Strenght
-Agillity
-Intelligence
and there they can be reviewed by higher mods

[Vot1_Bear]

^wut

Anyway damn JJE92 never thought of those cons.
I've debated with coolake for almost a page and you managed to make him out of ideas in one post

Agreed with your post, anonymity will attract more trolls to troll.

[LysanderXonora]

Solution would be Iron Fist mods.

I hearby volunteer to mod JUST the hero sugg (:

[Captain Planet]

Originally Posted by kitchen

I agree about it being weird for CTH winners to be highlighted. However if Icefrog or other people who help him were to create the "challenge" of a new forum contest (ie steering entries toward a concept he/they are interested in) that could be better.

That's what I meant when I talked about contests. I should probably have made myself clearer. A proper contest run by the creators of the game would be one solution to making the forum more involved I think.

[Lotus V Eater]

Originally Posted by LysanderXonora

Solution would be Iron Fist mods.

I hearby volunteer to mod JUST the hero sugg (:

Then, start with this fcuking troll!