Suggestions forum discussion: Layout

[LysanderXonora]

Originally Posted by JJE92

Hero Ideas:
Main Stat
Role
A specific uniqueness that attracts attention (e.g.: Admiral - melee with long-ranged skills; Earthshaker - best stunner; Zeus - nuker, whose skills have late-game potential; Meepo - a hero with clones; ...)
Title or maximally 3 words describing what the hero is thematically

Abilities:
Active/Passive/Auto-cast/...
Short words describing what the skill is about specifically (Torrent - delayed AoE knock-up with huge range; Relocate - Teleporting to an area and returning a few seconds later)

Furthermore, the Thread Description could be expanded. Currently, it only allows for a short sentence, which really isn't helpful. It could potentially contain a short description of the hero/ability.

This would be a first step towards a better layout and more organisation. It would probably not be enough, though.

Good idea.

Although for the hero part, where you include the 'role', is there a limit? Coz I can just see those trolls checking every single role available just to get hits on their thread.

[kitchen]

Deciding what roles to put as options would be a debate in itself. I think increasing the space in Thread Description is a good idea. However I usually use that for news pertaining to the thread, such as updates or test map releases. So I'm not sure if Thread Description is the right place to put it, but I think it's important for the forum to encourage posters to include something like the Hero Descriptions found on the site. A lot of times people will use the templates and leave that field blank when imo it's the most important part.

But back to layout. I'm not sure we can do a whole lot better in terms of forum layout. The thing is I'm not convinced a traditional forum is even a very good way to handle this sort of thing. A mindset change and a way of filtering the threads is going to help more than changing the set-up of the forums imo.

[Vot1_Bear]

Originally Posted by LysanderXonora

Ability suggestions is also a land where trolls that had bad dota experiences share their 'fixes' with the world. (Lightstrike array with 600aoe etc.) So merge two troll forums, we get a big problem. There will be constant contest between trolls, trolls and proper suggestions. Trolls will win. So we just merged it into a dung ball.

Disagreement.
Those fixes are in remakes forum

Abilities ideas, imo, is the 2nd best suggestion subforum, besides visuals.
I don't get the "Troll-land" idea. Where do you get it from? The troll threads in abilities are WAY less than heroes, remakes or even visuals. It doesn't attract most trolls since they are more attracted to making imba heroes.

Some of the abilities in that forums are actually worth reviewing. It's simpler than reviewing heroes, and easier to fix/balance.

[Captain Planet]

Originally Posted by Sgt Failure

I certainly think we need a sandbox, a "highrated" and a subforum for either Scourge/Sentinel or Str/Agi/Int so that we can easily sort out the heroes suggested.

The Sandbox for incomplete heroes, I assume? That would be useful and enforcing would make the mods more engaged in the hero subforum (YOU READING THIS FOEDE, YOU LAZY FOEDE? ) The "Highrated" might be a bit tricky, and is a discussion for the other thread in this sticky group. but sorting heroes into their factions might be a good idea to help organise the forum a bit more I think.

[Vot1_Bear]

^We can use the draft --> published guide system (Has requirements to be a "highrated" hero, and when you think the hero's qualified you can PM a mod/post in a special thread).

But really, all we need is a rules thread and a minor post requirement (20 to post new threads) to prevent noob heroes.

[Mazil]

Originally Posted by The ][nquisitor

but sorting heroes into their factions might be a good idea to help organise the forum a bit more I think.

Personally, I'd rather abolish the faction tags for hero suggestions.

Most ideas can be simply re-flavoured into any other theme. EG, laguna blade is on a sentinel hero and Finger Of Death is on a scourge hero. There are 2 heroes that use snake wards, Veno and Rhasta. Decrepify on Pugna and Pentinence on Chen. I know those aren't the SAME skills, but hopefully you get my point. Heck, I even completely reworked a suggestion from ice(sent) into slime(scourge)... It worked. No functionality of the skills was changed.

I would rather have all the hero ideas in one place, so its easier to look at all the options at any one time. If I was icefrog, I'd be looking for concepts, not flavours or themes.

If you need further sorting for heroes, it should be in role. Well IMO, and I know that's hard to achieve, but sorting by faction is unnecessary and would not achieve what I think the forum re-structure needs.

[Sgt Failure]

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

^We can use the draft --> published guide system (Has requirements to be a "highrated" hero, and when you think the hero's qualified you can PM a mod/post in a special thread).

But really, all we need is a rules thread and a minor post requirement (20 to post new threads) to prevent noob heroes.

The problem with all kind of rating is as GoD and basicly everyone else said: It is biased, what can be abused will be abused.

I think what we need is a somewhat comment or post from Icefrog, a help poster or anything, but that is offtopic.

We need some way to sort heroes, end of story. Be it by affliction, completion, theme, role or whatever.

[Vot1_Bear]

^Role will fit nicely.

But srsly i would really like the draft heroes -> complete heroes.

So that you know that you're not reviewing something that OP doesn't even care about anymore

[Captain Planet]

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

^Role will fit nicely.

But srsly i would really like the draft heroes -> complete heroes.

So that you know that you're not reviewing something that OP doesn't even care about anymore

DA.com had something like that. Draft heroes were in one section and completed heroes were in another. Heck, they even had a separate section for non-ingame model heroes, lol.

It's very hard, nigh impossible, to sort heroes by quality objectively, simply because each person thinks different heroes are of high quality. So sorting them by faction or role might work. But faction would be better than role because many heroes could have more than one primary role in-game (ganker, tank, support, chaser, turtler).

But sorting heroes between WIP heroes and "finished" heroes might work. It would at least mean that mods would need to (finally) get their hands down and dirty in the hero forum Active mod participation in the hero suggestion forum would be nice (and long overdue IMO).

[Lotus V Eater]

i think either role or affiliation will fit in order to categorize the hero idea well...

[kitchen]

Affiliation is completely arbitrary. Sure, the threads would be spread between 2 subforums, but I guess I just don't understand the benefit of that. It's not as if affiliation is going to affect anything relevant.

[Vot1_Bear]

Originally Posted by The ][nquisitor

But sorting heroes between WIP heroes and "finished" heroes might work. It would at least mean that mods would need to (finally) get their hands down and dirty in the hero forum Active mod participation in the hero suggestion forum would be nice (and long overdue IMO).

That's what i just said. Anyway, it's kinda too evil to put a mod in the hero suggs. PURE EVIL.

Well then if there's "graphics crew" why can't this hero have "suggestions crew"? :P:

[LysanderXonora]

Hero Suggestions should be like Guides, but mods should be allowed to closed nub suggestions with 0 creativity, over complexity, poor presentation etc if the OP does not remedy it in a given time frame.

[Captain Planet]

Originally Posted by Vot1_Bear

That's what i just said. Anyway, it's kinda too evil to put a mod in the hero suggs. PURE EVIL.

Well then if there's "graphics crew" why can't this hero have "suggestions crew"? :P:

I'd do it. If none of the other mods really want to I'll be happy to, lol. I've spent enough time in the hero suggs forum to be able to mod it fine IMO. Also, the "Suggestions Crew" is kinda interesting, but if we get a heroes-only mod then I think the need for a specific set of mods for suggs isn't needed, since apart from heroes, the rest of the suggs forum is modded perfectly fine I think.

@Above: I agree fully. If a set of basic rules are applied to the hero suggs forum, then any member who doesn't abide by them with their thread gets the thread closed. And new members, within that thread, can be directed to links which would help them fulfil the rules of making an adequate hero suggestion

[LysanderXonora]

I so would volunteer to be a mod too. I've been here for nearly two years. Spent most my time in hero sugg. T up on suggestions crew lol

[Lotus V Eater]

Originally Posted by LysanderXonora

Hero Suggestions should be like Guides, but mods should be allowed to closed nub suggestions with 0 creativity, over complexity, poor presentation etc if the OP does not remedy it in a given time frame.

MEGA SUPPORTS!! already tired to remind newbies to use proper templates and create more original/innovative spells nowadays...so wanna be the MODS too...if it is just for Suggestion (or even Hero Idea) forum only...

[Mazil]

Can I put my hand up for that too?

[Vot1_Bear]

Meh too. I might be the only mod for abilities lol
but hero ideas is OK too.

@Xon: 2 years? O rly?

[LysanderXonora]

Oops, not here 2 years XD Forgot abt allstars XD

But no matter, I want to be a hero suggestion crew hehe. Time to axe teh trolls.

[kitchen]

Even a not-so-great suggestion can spark discussion that leads to a better idea. Axing threads is something not to be done lightly. Also, that's what makes me iffy about splitting threads into WIP and "finished". If we discuss like we should, and idea here should never be "finalized". The OP isn't the only important post in the thread.

So back to layout, I'd prefer if all the heroes were in one place, not split up by arbitrary distinctions or WIP/finished. However if we were to figure out a GOOD way to split them up by quality, that might work. That's the question though, after all.