Kardel Sharpeye, the Dwarven Sniper

[uo111]

So, what is wrong with sniper. Well, he is slow, weak, and generally contributes nothing to the team. If he wants to be useful he needs to get int so he can spam his ulti, which is a physical nuke. Not exactly the most useful hero really. Not to mention he is extremely easy to kill. One hero can gank sniper effectively. And he recently got a slow to help him with this problem, but it really isn't enough. Sniper needs something more. In my original remake I added a slow on scatter shot, and ultra vision, but I don't think that is enough anymore. So here is my full remake of sniper.

Changes in red



Str 16 +1.7
Agi 21 +2.9
Int 15 +2.6

Affiliation: Sentinel
Attack Animation: 0.17 / 0.7
Damage: 36 - 42
Casting Animation: 0.3 / 0.51
Armor: 2
Base Attack Time: 1.7
Movespeed: 310 (was 290)
Missile Speed: 3000
Attack Range: 500 (was 550)
Sight Range: 1800 / 800

I increased snipers ms by quite a bit. It will help him greatly in most everything that he does, but especially chasing with berserk stance and kiting sniper stance. Also, his decreased range was to have the user further weigh in his decision of stances.


Shrapnel

Kardel will leave a trail of explosive metal bombs every second for 10 seconds, which last for 4 seconds in a 250 aoe dealing damage per second and slowing enemies.

Level 1 - Deals 10 damage per second, and slows 15%
Level 2 - Deals 20 damage per second, and slows 20%
Level 3 - Deals 30 damage per second, and slows 25%
Level 4 - Deals 40 damage per second, and slows 30%

Manacost - 120
Cooldown - 15

Think Firefly without the flying, with less damage, and a slow. There is one difference though that deserves a special mention. Sniper will leave the trail behind him 10 seconds, but it will only stay in effect for 4 seconds. This skill is a great kiting and escaping/chasing tool. 30% slow is no joke. Sniper can easily run and attack his enemies from afar, forcing them to flee, or die. In a team battle, this skill will allow sniper to stay as far away from the battle, and keep as far away from that battle as possible, while still doing damage.

<Sniper Stance | Berserk Stance>
Stances

Kardel will switch between Sniper Stance for more range, or Berserk Stance for damage and a .05 mini-stun.

Level 1 - Sniper stances gives 100 range. Berserk Stance gives +20 damage and a mini-stun.
Level 2 - Sniper stances gives 200 range. Berserk Stance gives +30 damage and a mini-stun.
Level 3 - Sniper stances gives 300 range. Berserk Stance gives +40 damage and a mini-stun.
Level 4 - Sniper stances gives 400 range. Berserk Stance gives +50 damage and a mini-stun.

Manacost - 0
Cooldown - 2 seconds

Rather obvious mechanics. Click to switch. One thing though, the +damage is added to the hero damage, so lifesteal and crits will have an effect from it. Now this one is a bit different. Yes, I want sniper to focus on keeping out of the battle, which is rather hard with 500 range, but I don't want him to still be useless against those heroes which can easily close the gap(blinkers). So sniper can be a powerhouse at close range.


Spotter

Kardel summons a Spotter drone which spots incoming enemies and aids the Sniper in lining up his shots. Lasts 30 seconds.

Level 1 - Gives unobstructed vision up to 800 range
Level 2 - Gives unobstructed vision up to 1000 range
Level 3 - Gives unobstructed vision up to 1200 range
Level 4 - Gives unobstructed vision up to 1400 range

Manacost - 100/120/140/160
Cooldown - 60/50/40/30

This gives vision like Night Stalker with Aghanim's Scepter except it is on an immovable flying ward. The reasons for this is because one of snipers biggest flaws is that he is meant to stay away from his enemies, but by the time he can see them its already to late. Now he can see the danger coming sooner, and he can work to avoid it, or work to turn it in his favor.


Assassinate

Sniper will wait hidden in the shadows, until he is able to strike for a kill at an extremely long range. Sniper channels for 2 seconds, after which he gains invisibility, which breaks upon any action. He gains 2000 attack range while invisible, and bonus damage upon breaking invisibility.

Level 1 - Gives 300 break damage.
Level 2 - Gives 400 break damage.
Level 3 - Gives 500 break damage.

Manacost - 150/250/350
Cooldown - 25/20/15 seconds

This works a bit like meld, except sniper will gain 2k range which will be dispelled once he moves/attacks, and will get high break damage. Also he has to channel for 2 seconds before going invisible. I think this has amazing synergy with Ultravision in particular. When the enemies come to gank you, you can run into the forest and hide while you wait for your allies to come gank the gankers.

Credits
-FrozenStorm for spotter idea.

[Stalker]

Stances sux.
Ultravision sux.

Overall T-down.

[windowlicka]

His base attack range should remain 550. It just fits the theme of a Sniper.

Shrapnel should remain as the current Scattershot. Sniper has no "force-drag" move like Batrider's Lasso and this has nearly no synergy with any of his other skills besides the kiting thing, which isn't placed on much emphasis. Furthermore you might want to think over the concept of kiting. Mainly because it becomes abysmally weak late game and a tad strong early game. Your current implementation of Shrapnel may also give the game away when using in conjunction with Assasinate especially since you leave a visible trail or effect (the slow) behind.

Stances is a pretty cool concept and I have not much to comment on.

Ultravision feels clunky and out of place. At 10 mana per second it may be possible for a Sniper to have it switched on permanently, which is without a doubt overpowered. The function of Ultravision is IMO too good to be a skill. The effect on NS Aghanim's can be called overpowered but since there are nearly no similar skills (besides Rexxar's Call of the Wild, which was deemed overpowered), the topic has been rarely brought up. Basically this is like a legal maphack and I don't think it should be put into the game.

I love your remake of Assasinate. The current Assasinate doesn't feel creative at all, it just feels like a nuke to KS or spam from afar. Your new Assasinate adds a unique twist to it. Good job on this one.

Overall T-UP, except for Ultravision and Shrapnel.

[JJE92]

S1: No, this one is not a good change, he would have to go into the creeps to damage them, no harrass anymore, overall hes too fragile for such a skill.
0/10

S2: Stances is pretty cool, but this has some cons, like you cant fire anymore a good bash from a strong range, which was one of Snipers strengths. Overall I like this change.
8/10

S3: Good skill, synergizes great.
10/10

Ult: Current Assassinate is better imo, you removed some damage just for a lame invis meld effect. I am principally against invis-sniper, some players buy lothar, i never do it, because i think there are better solution, which are not that easy to counter.
3/10


Overall: 21/40 = 52%

TUp for S2 and S3, TD for Shrapnel and Assassinate.

[uo111]

Lol at stalker. Stupid people rox.

550 isn't exactly good range to start with. I would have to nerf stances if I wanted to increase his base range though

I personally think that fire fly is used for way more then dragging units into it. You can use it to get in front of the enemy, blocking and damaging them at the same time, and with the additional slow and much higher aoe on my shrapnel remake it would be a great farming and chasing tool, especially in the jungle. Also it is much better for escaping as well.

As for ultra vision, I think you are way over estimating it. Sniper isn't flying, and he doesn't see nearly as far as ns(600 less.) I'll wait for this one.

Assassinate is quite split. JJ seems kinda biased though...

Anyways, this is hardly finalized, I really just wanted peoples opinions.

Still, kinda wierd how different the opinions are.

[Sacrosanct]

T-Down

Sniper is fine the way he is.

[FrozenStorm]

Originally Posted by Sacrosanct

T-Down

Sniper is fine the way he is.

Strongly disagree, he's worthless as he stands.

@UO111
Thematically I don't like the "Berserker" stance, would prefer a "Prone" as suggested by PS2MAN. A switch with a 2 second cast that trades decreased movespeed for increased range & headshot percentage. Skilling it could increase base range/headshot also, just "going prone" would make them even higher at cost of movement.

I'll let you work out some numbers for that as you please, and credit PS2MAN when you do ^^

Edit: Typed up a description, felt like doing it

Go Prone

Kardel lays belly-down on the ground, stabilizing his shots and allowing for longer range, but significantly decreasing the Sniper's mobility. All levels add 50 base range to his attack in addition to bonuses to prone stance. Additionally, all levels of prone stance gain truestrike (zero chance to miss, orb effect).

Level 1 - Prone stance adds 100 range
Level 2 - Prone stance adds 200 range
Level 3 - Prone stance adds 300 range
Level 4 - Prone stance adds 400 range
Manacost - 20 to switch, at all levels.
Movespeed Reduction - Movespeed becomes 150 at all levels.

Note: This would top out his range at base (let's say we make it 600 to be even with everyone else) + 50*4 (Lvl 4 prone adds to base form) + 400 (In Lvl 4 prone) = 1200. Now THAT's a sniper ^^

New Shrapnel from 60b is good, don't think change is really necessary here.

I like Ultravision idea more or less, would instead call it UAV or Spotter or something though, have him set an invulnerable flying "ward" giving 30 seconds of huge vision. This would make him legitimately useful for all levels of play as an anti-ganker.

It'd look like this:

Unmanned Aireal Recon Drone

Kardel summons a reconnisaince drone which spots incoming enemies and aids the Sniper in lining up his shots. Lasts 30 seconds.

Level 1 - Gives unobstructed vision up to 1000 range
Level 2 - Gives unobstructed vision up to 1200 range
Level 3 - Gives unobstructed vision up to 1400 range
Level 4 - Gives unobstructed vision up to 1600 range
Manacost - 100/130/160/200
Cooldown - 60/50/40/30
Cast Range - 200/300/400/500

This allows you to cast it into the trees a little bit, but not just deploy it wherever you like.


New Assassinate here I like, only change I would make is allow him only to do it while in the "prone" stance mentioned above, decrease the startup on this to 1 second, and allow him to move while invis (albiet at prone speed).

Thoughts?

[Raxen 07]

wow ultravison likes cardel have 5 skill because you make 2 skill become 1

[JJE92]

Originally Posted by Sacrosanct

T-Down

Sniper is fine the way he is.

Did you even review?
Perhaps there can be even better one than the current fine Sniper

Pls stop trolling ffs, this is a suggestion forums, with such posts nothing can be improved.

[FrozenStorm]

Originally Posted by JJE92

Did you even review?
Perhaps there can be even better one than the current fine Sniper

Pls stop trolling ffs, this is a suggestion forums, with such posts nothing can be improved.

QFT

Originally Posted by Stalker

Stances sux.
Ultravision sux.

Overall T-down.

See above. Add something useful or don't waste your time and our time

So people, thoughts on this sniper remake? Thoughts on suggested changes?

[Milli]

The whole concept of Kardel is flawed:
A Sniper doesn't shoot often - he shoots hard.
A Sniper isn't agile - a Sniper is intelligent.

[Redeemed A.I.]

Hmmm.I really like the stances idea,it would deffinetly help sniper farm a little more and maybe deal more damage with a disabler.Going close range for damage,then changing into far range for fleeing-killing damage..
However I don't like the trail,sniper is meant to kill from distance,not leave explosions..How are you suppossed to use this skill in early to mid game?especially if these explotions activate after 4 seconds o_O You are not suppossed to dive in and just live some explotions,you are suppossed to fire from a distance
The ultimate is...Nice,but it is more powerful than Vendetta.I can see the cooldown is high,but I'm not so sure it's balanced...Anyway t-up on this one too,I really like the hide and shoot theme..
But ultra vision is a little too much powerful combined with ultimate.It's like you cast ultravision,wait in the forest untill the victim comes and just shoot it with berserk stance(or even sniper stance for even moar range)...
I think you should remove ultravision and add something that upgrades sniper's skills.Something that passively (or actively) improves your attack speed/damage.


Anyway,I really like the stance thing,I am 100% sure it must be implemented in DotA and I also like your new assassinate skill...

gl with implementing at least something from this great suggestion post

[PS2MAN]

First skill - Worse than Current, and the current is bad.

Second skill - Rippoff of the second skill in my sniper remake, but not as balanced or good. +400 range is much better than a ministun, being able to run round with 950 range is not balanced.

Third Skill - Rippoff of Nightstalkers AS Upgrade

Ulti = Overpowered plain and simple.



And Kasad, if you like the stance thing so much not check out check out a remake that does it well? Hopefully I'll get the map up by tommorrow to stop the "Mass Sniper remake" nonsense the suggestion forum seems to be plagued with since I posted mine.

[JJE92]

Originally Posted by Milli

The whole concept of Kardel is flawed:
A Sniper doesn't shoot often - he shoots hard.
A Sniper isn't agile - a Sniper is intelligent.

So you think guys in the army are intelligent
I think i disagree strongly

Well, you cant compare life with Dota anyways.

[uo111]

Originally Posted by PS2MAN

Second skill - Rippoff of the second skill in my sniper remake, but not as balanced or good. +400 range is much better than a ministun, being able to run round with 950 range is not balanced.

I honestly don't take reviews from people with the same remake suggestion very seriously, because it is hard to be truthful when you are biased.

But lulz, you honestly think you came up with stances first? I don't quite know who did, but it wasn't you. If you find the original, I will gladly give that person credit for the idea.

Also, you are hardly the first sniper rmk. Back in DA forums my sniper remake appeared in the first wave of the remake kardel phase.(course it just had ultravision and a different take aim.)

Anywho.

@ Frozenstorm

As for prone, I hate it, and always will. Trading range for extremely low movespeed has to be one of the most broken concepts ever. Sniper can't even see that far. Any blinkers/wwers/long range nukers will own him hard, even more so then now. He won't be able to get away, unless he channels for 2 seconds.

As for the spotter idea. That is pretty good. It would make people scream less imba. It's like an uber ward for a very low duration, which is just the type of thing sniper needs to stay safe.

@ Kasad

Shrapnel doesn't take four seconds to activate, it trails sniper for 10 seconds, but the end of the trail starts disappearing after 4 seconds.

I would also really like to keep some sort of vision in the sniper rmk. It really helps sniper enormously.

As for the ult, why is it imba?

It does less damage on a higher cd at a lower range with a longer channel time. Dust would own it defensively, so the hide and wait is really the buff, but even then book gem or wards.

Also, how is this shrapnel worse then the current. You can still farm, it is MUCH better for escaping and chasing. Also, melee heroes will always be slowed 30% and take 40 dps when attacking sniper. What more could sniper ask for?

As for the current one. It's not as though the easily avoidable dps is worth taking early game. It just pushes the lane, and takes a skill points from his other passives. The 15% slow isnt enough with the aoe to escape ganks with snipers low ms. So you would need more points in it which further delays his other passives. Using shrapnel to farm pushes the lane, which is like asking the enemy team to gank you, and not getting one of your passives makes it harder to last hit which makes sniper suck worse late game. And 40 dps and a 30% ms slow in an aoe in late game is near useless. I think making it trail sniper which allows for perfect escaping and insane protection from melee heroes is just overall better.

[PS2MAN]

No Idea is original, but the numbers contained within can be and sometimes it is more than a mere coincidence when 2 skills with sameish numbers appear in the same place within a short space of each other. However that was not my main point. If you could run round with 1K range without any side effects, would you ever not?

Secondly I actually like your Assassinate idea to an extent. The flaw with it is break damage is bonus damage ontop of your nomral damage, and that the way you describe the skill you can maintain perm invis while chain assassinating due to how such a skill would work (It would cool down as you wait in Invis).

I voted on the concept of your Assassinate being bad because it creates an in imbalanced situation, (Perm Invis Super nuking) however the idea of being hidden while shooting people from masssive range is something I like. I'm not giving you a Biased review because I done a sniper remake myself, I am giving you the same review I would give myself (and that is part of the reason I have remade my sniper fully around 7/8 times now).

My review of you was based on these questions. If it does not pass all of them, my overall vote becomes a No.

-Will this sniper feed = Yes. Worse Escape skill and crappy str gain still.

-Is it more interesting than the current sniper. = slightly, but not much.

-Is it trying to be more sniperish? = Yes.

-Are all the skills Possible to balance? = you failed on this 1 due to how you want assassinate to work (Like I explained above). The other 3 could be balanced though as their mechanics are sound enough.



I hope that explains things better for you.

[uo111]

Assassinate could easily be coded to only cd after you break invis. And yes he does do normal damage on top of assassinate damage, but they are both physical, and snipers damage isn't usually to high anyways. I don't see a major problem here, unless ww break damage stacks with say crits.

And, please explain the hate on shrapnel. Everyone says it sux but no one has said why yet.

Also this sniper can only have 850 range(only 80 more then current) But he loses head shot for that, which is a HUGE damage nerf.

[PS2MAN]

Originally Posted by uo111

Assassinate could easily be coded to only cd after you break invis. And yes he does do normal damage on top of assassinate damage, but they are both physical, and snipers damage isn't usually to high anyways. I don't see a major problem here, unless ww break damage stacks with say crits.

And, please explain the hate on shrapnel. Everyone says it sux but no one has said why yet.

Also this sniper can only have 850 range(only 80 more then current) But he loses head shot for that, which is a HUGE damage nerf.

Simple. If your sharpnel works the same as batriders, then what is to stop you from running alongside sniper instead of directly behind him? The current one is better because it can slow people for chasing plus slow them BEFORE they gear near you. Your version requires you to be running away, is easily avoided and cannot be used offensively.

The only reason it works on batrider is because he has a skill to force people to walk in his trail. When his lasso is on cooldown you have to be pretty stupid to run down his firepath, just like you have to be pretty stupid to run if you have been ruptured.

[FrozenStorm]

[QUOTE=uo111;63470]

@ Frozenstorm

As for prone, I hate it, and always will. Trading range for extremely low movespeed has to be one of the most broken concepts ever. Sniper can't even see that far. Any blinkers/wwers/long range nukers will own him hard, even more so then now. He won't be able to get away, unless he channels for 2 seconds.


He can see that far, with his spotter. Also, I like the idea of playing sniper like a sniper, staying back behind the action and picking people off. He shouldn't be going prone in a solo lane where he'll get ganked off, he should be supporting someone from afar with it. I can understand how you think this is counter-intuitive to fixing his weaknesses (easily ganked), but with the spotter I think you'd have to be stupid to get ganked off, even if you were lying prone.

Anyway, the point was only that I don't feel like a berserker stance suits him very well.

Also don't think the trail of slows is the answer to helping him survive, as it has negative synergy offensively, and isn't really going to stop people from chain stunning you defensively. Maybe PS2MAN has it right with the smoke bomb, I dunno to be honest. I'll post when I have a better thought sorry lol.

[JJE92]

Originally Posted by uo111

But lulz, you honestly think you came up with stances first? I don't quite know who did, but it wasn't you. If you find the original, I will gladly give that person credit for the idea.

It was Artmar's idea, i believe, on old DA forums, i took his idea in my Sniper remake idea