Aghanim's Stats Remake

[JaCKaSS_69]

Aghanim's Stats Remake

Lets agree on something to begin with. There are simply too many all stat items. Linken's, Skadi, Manta, Meka and even Magic Wand, HoR, Buckler and Dagon could be considered such. Why do we need one more of the like?

Don't get me wrong I like the fact that Agh's can be build with quite some flexibility due to its components but there are tons of examples where one particular stat (sometimes more) are unneeded.
Those include but are not limited to:

• Void not getting much by Int
• Pudge by Agi
• Lion by Agi
• Yurnero by Int
• Lion by Agi
• Lina by Agi

The list could continue, and obviously the most desirable one would be Str but really some are reduntant simply. By the time Void/Yurne get Agh's this 10 int seems more like a money waste than anything else. Same applies to most Int getting it. Agi goes to waste.

Why not retain that flexibility up to a certain point, specifically upon completion of the item?

Aghanim's currently requires:

1xStaff of Wizardry + 1xOgre Axe or
1xBlades of Alacrity + 1x Staff of Wizardry or
1xBlades of Alacrity + 1xOgre Axe
Point Booster
Aghanims Recipe

Aghanims currently offers:

+10 all stats
+200 hp
+150 mana
Ultimate Upgrade

Remade Aghanim's would require:

1xStaff of Wizardry + 1xOgre Axe or
1xBlades of Alacrity + 1x Staff of Wizardry or
1xBlades of Alacrity + 1xOgre Axe
Point Booster
Aghanims Recipe

Remade Aghanim's would offer:

+15 Str/Agi OR
+15 Agi/Int OR
+15 Str/Int
+200 hp
+150 mana
Ultimate Upgrade

*Note:The 15-20 is just because I haven't really decided which fits more. I'm leaning towards 15 more, then again 20 isn't really bad for the price/benefits we are getting. I'd love your input here.

*Note #2:Since you seem to not understand what you read, I'll break it to pieces for you. The remade aghanim's should give either +15-20 Int and Str, either +15-20 Agi and Str or +15-20 Int and Agi, depending on the parts you chose before upgrading it. Clearer now? >.>

*Note #3: The bonus stats of the item are not interchangeable after its completion.

So what do you think about this one? Should this be implemented or not? Too bad we can't put polls up yet. :/

Edit: Bolded and capitalized the "or" in the remade aghanim's stats for some ppl in here seem to have learning disability.
Edit2: Chose the 15 as the correct value in order to give the same total stats as it does currently.

[Drikam]

Not really. Now many heroes benefit from this item (agi/str/int) so this change in 6.60 is good! And I dont like this idea.

If you dont benefit from eg. int (void), just buy ogre axe+blades, so you benefit while you are trying to get this item. The int is just a free bonus, +ulti uupgrade.

Agh is cheaper and better. Leave it as it is, its balanced, rly.

[JaCKaSS_69]

Uhmm, the price remains untouched and since most of the wielders seriously don't benefit from either agility or intelligence, I don't really believe that wasting some money (especially on heroes like Juggernaut/Void) justifies the "bonuses".

Instead with this remake you get what you want to, and is far more original imfo.

Also I'd like to advise you to read the whole fucking thread before commenting, ty.

[Raxen 07]

if aganim have 20 stats, how about skadi??
it's imbalance for skadi

[JaCKaSS_69]

Originally Posted by Raxen 07

if aganim have 20 stats, how about skadi??
it's imbalance for skadi

Edited op since you seem to have learning disability.

[Drikam]

Skadi has an mega cool orb effect and stats, so its mega prized.

but I rly would leave this as it is. I rly benefit from this item.

dont you understand?
you get 10 STATS for FREE. You first pick 2: ewg. str and int.
U get 10 agi for free! +mega hiper cool upgrade to ulti.

Icefrog wont change agh like this, Im sure.

[Raxen 07]

yes you right icefrog won't change aganim like yours opinion

[Astrusum]

Originally Posted by Drikam

dont you understand?
you get 10 STATS for FREE. You first pick 2: ewg. str and int.
U get 10 agi for free! +mega hiper cool upgrade to ulti.

No, YOU don't understand.

In the current version you are getting 10 USELESS stats for free most of the time. In OPs version, you are getting 10-20 USEFUL stats for free.

Lets make an example. You are using Doom bringer, and rushing Scepter. As Doombringer, you are an tank/spell caster hybrid. You want Health and Mana. With the current Scepter, you get +10 to strength, +10 to agility and +10 to intellect.

The strength and intellect are really the two only stats you are using from the Scepter, agility is just wasted. So in reality you are only getting +20 stats you can use, and +10 stats you can't. The same applies to most other heroes as well.

Now lets try with the new Scepter that OP is suggesting. The buildup is the EXACT same, you pay the same, use the same items, and get it at the same time. Only this time you get +15 or +20 to two of your stats instead of +10 to all of them. Lets use Doom bringer again. He want strength and intellect, so he builds the scepter with an Ogre Axe and Wizards Staff. So he gets +15 or +20 to strength, +0 to agility and +15 or +20 to intellect.

You don't need agility and you don't want agility, and therefore you don't GET agility. Instead, the "free" stats you are getting from making the items goes into extra strength and intellect, making the "free" stats useful.

Saying that this change is bad because you want useless stats over useful ones is just plain retarded.

I fully support this idea, and I hope we wont get anymore ignorant people here.

@OP I would say that +20 stats is over the top, but +15 would keep the balance

[Raxen 07]

how about ogre axe, blade aclritiy or staff wizard component replace with ulti orb then aganim scepter provide 15 all stats.
you spent ogre axe and staff wizard for 2000 gold but ulti orb just 2100.
just compare 10 all stats with 10 str and 10 int with same price.

[FireMaster]

But 2 Items costing 1000g is easier to get than one costing 2100g

[Zack1996]

No. T-Down.
Why? That would force Icefrog to make (Number of Heroes Affected + 1)*3 (3 because the one you pick up is a different item from the one that's in your inventory) items, since each hero that can be affected has a different item, like Scepter (Destroyer) and such, not to mention the basic version.
I have considered something similar, but remembered this, which would probably increase the map size significantly.
Also, I did consider that some heroes decide to take a staff of wizardry item for a quick boost in mana before they got their point booster/scepter.

[Sekhmet]

Originally Posted by JaCKaSS_69

Lets agree on something to begin with. There are simply too many all stat items.

No, let's not agree. In fact, I strongly disagree and often play heroes that really don't have the opportunity to use the all-stat items (because the items produce abilities that my hero doesn't need) and yet the hero could use a general buff to all attributes. We could use a wider variety of flexible items, especially for Agility heroes.

However, though this premise is wrong, the idea for the remake is good -- and I rarely use the Scepter.

Making items more useful/less arbitrary is a Good Thing.

Virtual T-Up, since there's no poll.

Of course, we're on the net, so that makes this a virtual virtual T-Up.

[JaCKaSS_69]

@Zack1996:
Ice himself said to make suggestions w/o valuing MSI since it isn't yet a problem.

There should also be no MSI since Agh's icon is not imported. >.>

Note that this change is only made for making the item more versatile and used on some heroes that seem to benefit from certain stats more than others.

[Psycho]

Well, everything is at it's best when it is balanced right?

But, making aghanim work like treads is a pretty good idea. I support this.

[sairenkao]

Hm. I'm going to say I'm against this suggestion. I'm not too sure how I want to argue my point of view, but:

Generally all heroes can use STR and INT, since they give health and mana. Therefore, AGI itself is the only "useless stat" here, as it's only "useful" for AGI heroes (correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess other heroes can want wraith bands too). Hence the cost of wraith bands is lower than bracers or talismans. But being less "useful" doesn't make it "useless" as it still gives attack speed and armor to all heroes (however insignificant that is). But the general Ultimate upgrade makes it impossible for us to make Aghanim's cheaper for AGI heroes.

The idea of making it switchable like Power Threads is interesting, but may cause some complications due to have 2 stats available (complicated in the sense of keeping track of which stat you get/don't get on the next click). It may not seem complicated but the thought process is quite different.
For Power Treads, you look at your currently stat, and figure out the stat on the click.
In this case, my thought process would be like this: Read stat 1. Read stat 2. Figure out what stat is missing. Figure out what stat I gain on next click. Figure out what stat I lose on next click.
Maybe I'm thinking too much :P

[JaCKaSS_69]

The item's bonuses are not interchangeable. >.>

Please read more carefully.

[Arcykutas]

Its not that Doom doesnt benefit from agi. He gain some armor and 10% AS :P. Your remake is fine, but i dont think that Scepter will be changed soon. Anyway, can someone tell me which hero should take Int + Agi instead of Str + Agi or Str + Int? I cant think of any example atm.

[desOo]

T-up. It's just better. I really dun like have that +10 agi in WitchDOctor for example.

[Cp6uja]

Aghnanims is already extremly good, cheap, and has good stats. No more buffing or remaking please.

[Redeemed A.I.]

Heh,I like the idea
But I'm not sure if it can be easily implemented.

t-up because it really can become a viable item this way.

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Zack1996

No. T-Down.
Why? That would force Icefrog to make (Number of Heroes Affected + 1)*3 (3 because the one you pick up is a different item from the one that's in your inventory) items, since each hero that can be affected has a different item, like Scepter (Destroyer) and such, not to mention the basic version.
I have considered something similar, but remembered this, which would probably increase the map size significantly.
Also, I did consider that some heroes decide to take a staff of wizardry item for a quick boost in mana before they got their point booster/scepter.

You're wrong.
That would happen if Icefrog kept the "Aghanim's on xxx hero" item tooltip description,which can easily be removed and simply say "Aghanim's Str/Agi Str/Int Int/Agi" and so on....And aghanim's can upgrade triggering the abilities if I'm not mistaken,but even if THAT'S the problem,the item can simply add/remove status >_>

But even in the worst scenario,creating 2x extra aghanim's wouldn't require that much MSI and time to afford >_>