[Aghanims] Rubick

[Infrisios]

While we already got some ideas on how to improve Rubick's ultimate with Aghanims, what I have seen (stealing spells from allies) sounded a bit strong.

So I'd like to hear your opinion about other ideas:

1.:
Stolen spells last indefinitely long.
That does not only mean that you don't lose them after they have "expired" due to the long time you kept them, but also when you die.
This is especially useful when an ability is difficult to get, for example if another ability is usually casted right afterwards.

2.:
Dramatic cooldown reduction.
To, say, 5 seconds. This makes you able to steal multiple spells in one clash, making your ultimate far more potent.

3.:
Higher range and instant steal (instead of projectile).
You won't have to get too close and won't have to wait for the spell to reach you.

4.:
Level up of the spell. If it is a normal spell you stole, it has maximum level. If it is an ultimate, it has one level more (or maximum level), if it already has maximum level you get the Aghanims version.

5.:
You gain a subskill that allows you to steal an ultimate.
If it is activated, whenever you steal a spell it is the ultimate. Even passive ones, like Reincarnation or Great Fortitude.

Discuss!

[Kingoz]

1. Well, Dunno what to say about this. Yes, it's kinda bad you loose spell when you die, but there is nothing that don't let you steal that spell again. And I think, storing only one spell is not good. I think it wouldn't be worth of buying agha. t-null

2. Imho too imbalanced. Cooldown is now really short. 5 second is just too... Short cooldown. t-null

3. Kinda nice suggest. Maybe make enemy won't see visual effect, and make the range really long to be worth of buying and it would be nice upgrade. t-up

4. I think when you buy aghanim, the most of spell are already leveled to max level. It would be waste of money. t-down

5. Well, sound good. T-up

[PuЪLiㄷEиəℳy#1]

For the higher range and instant steal, perhaps global?

[Desert_Walker]

5 sec cooldown ultimate ALLOWING YOU TO STEAL AUTOMATICALLY IMPROVED ULTIMATES? You're kidding, right? This will let you steal and use 3 different enemy ultimates during teamfights. It sounds TOO OVERPOWERED.

[Monsterlord]

I want to see a global upgrade. I know it's been done already with Gyro, but their ultimates are different enough to warrant a repeat.

I don't think it would be too broken either. You'd need very finely tuned awareness to keep track of when to steal spells on a mapwide scale.

5 sec cooldown ultimate ALLOWING YOU TO STEAL AUTOMATICALLY IMPROVED ULTIMATES? You're kidding, right? This will let you steal and use 3 different enemy ultimates during teamfights. It sounds TOO OVERPOWERED.

They're all separate suggestions. Learn to read please.

[Infrisios]

Originally Posted by Desert_Walker

5 sec cooldown ultimate ALLOWING YOU TO STEAL AUTOMATICALLY IMPROVED ULTIMATES? You're kidding, right? This will let you steal and use 3 different enemy ultimates during teamfights. It sounds TOO OVERPOWERED.

ONE of these. Not all.

[GoD_Tyr]

No 1. is my favorite. Although I still haven`t played with him, I think it`s pretty fair to have one spell which last indefinitely - just compare to Doom and his Devour, sounds decent enough.
Or just, give Aghanims ability to steal passive ones too.
Just option one.

[Dream Coil]

even 3 minute is too much for this spell IMO i keep changing the spell and using another one, so making it longer is not needed
i like 2.
instead of 5. it could give a subability that steals only passive abilites from the hero

[Unnamed_]

T-Down on the idea. A real estimation has not yet been done to determine if this skill is unbalanced or underpowered. I say it is a shitbag of spell that should not be buffed, but removed.
On Topic:
1. No. Certain skills should never be taken in the first place. Having those skills even after they die is an awful idea.
2. What? You basically want this hero to be able to steal 3-4 ultimates in a team fight? No.
3. Maybe this is acceptable. The difference is not that big. And I can only agree to a small to non-existant buff.
4. This is bad. This way for 1 Aghanim you get the Aghanim Upgrades of all Aghanims. I can't agree with that.
5. You basically remove the skill component in this skill that gave it a slight hint of balance.

[Infrisios]

Originally Posted by Unnamed_

T-Down on the idea. A real estimation has not yet been done to determine if this skill is unbalanced or underpowered. I say it is a shitbag of spell that should not be buffed, but removed.
On Topic:
1. No. Certain skills should never be taken in the first place. Having those skills even after they die is an awful idea.
2. What? You basically want this hero to be able to steal 3-4 ultimates in a team fight? No.
3. Maybe this is acceptable. The difference is not that big. And I can only agree to a small to non-existant buff.
4. This is bad. This way for 1 Aghanim you get the Aghanim Upgrades of all Aghanims. I can't agree with that.
5. You basically remove the skill component in this skill that gave it a slight hint of balance.

Aghanims is not for free, you have to farm it. Numbers can be adapted to make it balanced.
Many people don't know what to buy with him and he needs both MP and HP, so an Aghanims would be perfect.
Aside from that, you don't seem to have seen/played as that hero too much.

[gofunkiertti]

This hero doesn't really need an aghanins upgrade. Also making it global or not being removed on death removes the element of danger that this skill has which is
1:keeping it balanced
2: making it much more fun

[~Maktor~]

4 is the best, i t-up on 4

[The Godplayer]

i dunno about the global range idea. its very difficult to use properly as it requires ridiculous amounts of awareness. its already difficult to gain a good ulti ( against decent players) this does not really help. i think the infinite duration is the best.

[God of Death]

Originally Posted by Infrisios

1.:
Stolen spells last indefinitely long.
That does not only mean that you don't lose them after they have "expired" due to the long time you kept them, but also when you die.
This is especially useful when an ability is difficult to get, for example if another ability is usually casted right afterwards.

No, rather OP actually. Prolonging the duration [even doubling it perhaps] is fine, but I won't rest easy knowing that Rubick has a Sceptered Epicentre. Especially if he also has a Refresher up his sleeve. My opinion.

Originally Posted by Infrisios

2.:
Dramatic cooldown reduction.
To, say, 5 seconds. This makes you able to steal multiple spells in one clash, making your ultimate far more potent.

Brilliant, T-Up. Perhaps also retain the original spell for a few moments after you steal the new one?

Originally Posted by Infrisios

3.:
Higher range and instant steal (instead of projectile).
You won't have to get too close and won't have to wait for the spell to reach you.

Nice, T-Up. Would like this along with a slight cooldown reduction.

Originally Posted by Infrisios

4.:
Level up of the spell. If it is a normal spell you stole, it has maximum level. If it is an ultimate, it has one level more (or maximum level), if it already has maximum level you get the Aghanims version.

No, gets useless uber quick and not very effective IMO. T-Down.

Originally Posted by Infrisios

5.:
You gain a subskill that allows you to steal an ultimate.
If it is activated, whenever you steal a spell it is the ultimate. Even passive ones, like Reincarnation or Great Fortitude.

Overpowered, T-Down. Uncounterable by casting spells in quick succession [like ES does], and a Refresher adds to the pain.

I have played Rubick a lot and he can even take on two heroes solo with proper positioning and stealing. Autostealing of ultimates and permanent stealing... stuff like that just pushes it over the top. Would love range increase and cooldown reduction.

[yoh50295]

I have recently played Rubick these past 2 weeks and I can say he's a quite powerful and very versatile spellcaster. And his ultimate proves this. If used by a professional player, he is unstoppable. This is because he can use every possible spell/skill in the game ( except passive skills ). Maybe a good balance is changing his skills and if there will be an Aghanims upgrade it should be balance with other Aghanims upgrade, not to overshadow them. And please for the Dota fans sake ( including me ), Dota is about teamwork and cooperation. This is why I joined this game

[gilvert]

Only like 2 and 3.

[forumLurker]

T-up for 3.

[God of Death]

My list:

Originally Posted by God of Death

Simple ideas are sometimes the best. Anyway, too many effects on an upgrade isn't the way to do it.

Anyway, for more elegant solutions:

1. Offense: Deals 120/180/240 damage to an enemy/area every time a spell is stolen.
2. Defense: Steals 25% of an enemy's current mana along with the spell stolen.
3. Inhibitory: If the enemy casts the stolen skill while within 1500 range, Rubick's stolen skill is refreshed.
4. Strategic: Gives another subskill that will instead steal the next skill used by the hero. Both Spellsteals share cooldown. Note: Does not give an extra spell to cast, but the stolen spell is replaced as usual when either ability is cast.
5. Versatile: Rubick steals the last two spells cast by the enemy. On using one, the other is immediately removed. The remaining spell functions and lasts as long as usual.

[keepitmovin]

whats about to take skills from your mates?

[Thedeath]

Originally Posted by Infrisios

While we already got some ideas on how to improve Rubick's ultimate with Aghanims, what I have seen (stealing spells from allies) sounded a bit strong.

So I'd like to hear your opinion about other ideas:

1.:
Stolen spells last indefinitely long.
That does not only mean that you don't lose them after they have "expired" due to the long time you kept them, but also when you die.
This is especially useful when an ability is difficult to get, for example if another ability is usually casted right afterwards. (This one worths an aghanim upgrade )

2.:
Dramatic cooldown reduction.
To, say, 5 seconds. This makes you able to steal multiple spells in one clash, making your ultimate far more potent. (Great for pro dudes, but normal players wont be able to focus on that )

3.:
Higher range and instant steal (instead of projectile).
You won't have to get too close and won't have to wait for the spell to reach you. (Im not with that tbf, waiting about 1 second till the projectile reaches u wont be that serious problem IMO.)

4.:
Level up of the spell. If it is a normal spell you stole, it has maximum level. If it is an ultimate, it has one level more (or maximum level), if it already has maximum level you get the Aghanims version. (I think this would be very IMBA somehow....like stealing a heavy version of Laguna's Blade :x)

5.:
You gain a subskill that allows you to steal an ultimate.
If it is activated, whenever you steal a spell it is the ultimate. Even passive ones, like Reincarnation or Great Fortitude. (Cool upgrade, but a little bit imba, like stealing Reincarnation just before death :x)

Discuss!

Discussion in Red!