Originality: What is it? Why do I need it?

doomed2die · 05-08-2011, 12:16 AM

Originality

Introduction: Why Am I Writing This?

I write this because everywhere we look, we see new suggesters who don't understand why their ideas are "unoriginal" and why that's bad. I've actually debated with some newbies as to why originality is important. So, I decided to write this. It's almost a guide on how to write an original suggestion but also information on why one needs it. For veterans, this is something we've seen and done all the time, and it's practically second nature to us. So, when we see a new suggestion, we flame and flame and the newbie does not every understand why their suggestion is so bad. Therefore, I'm writing this as a quick reference as to why we need originality in DotA. Hope you can use this!

Define "Innovative"

First of all, let's get this clear. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS COMPLETELY ORIGINAL

So, what the hell is everyone talking about when they say original? What are these people looking for!? Defining innovative, new, original, etc. in terms of DotA is a very difficult thing. Since the same basics - stun, damage, aoe, debuff, buff, etc. - can't be changed and there are limits to the Warcraft III engine, we keep the same old same old. Even the most unique skills in DotA have at least one thing they share with other skills - be it CD, Mana Cost, Targeting type or even an effect.

From this follows a second point. ORIGINALITY IS RELATIVE

In general, it always has to be seen in relation to what is currently in-game. Yet, even in this relation, originality is not absolute (original/unoriginal). It is relative to how the in-game effects are used, how they are combined, and how important they are for the skill's usage. Last but not least, originality is also relative to the observer, who focuses on different parts of it.

Overall, originality (in dota) can only be defined in general terms, as giving a new aspect to playing DotA. It's not completely new and original, but by giving it certain bits of shine, a little touch here and there, we can make an amazingly new suggestion. Important is, that there is something new in it and that it's not too similar to things that are in-game.

So:

Originality- Giving a new aspect, a new way of playing DotA by a combination, execution, or use not seen before in DotA.

Let's look at Io's first skill: Tether. Tether attaches Io to a unit and gives it 3 basic functions that we see in many skills:

Bonus MS
Heal (Pseudo, but I'll get to that)
Stun

So, why is it original? When Io came out, and when he was just a small little forum suggestion, Tether was hailed as extremely original. However, I just broke it down and we see 3 basic functions that everyone sees. So people failed, right? Of course, I mean, since nothing is new about this, it's absolutely unoriginal! Wrong.

How Something is Original

Easy, right? I mean I can find easily over 100 original suggestions. I've got some myself, if I may say so. However, you sometimes really have to sweat it, so let's look into how something is original:

Note that you may have to use more than 1 of these tactics to make a skill "original enough" but I'll get to the "originality factor" later.

Combination: The mixing of multiple skills to get a new skill. Old effects seem less boring, more new, with other effects mixed in.

So, basically effect 1+effect 2=Shiny new skill!

Examples:

Rot: Immolation+Slow+Self Damage
Torrent: Light Strike Array+Slow
Blink Strike: Blink+Bonus Damage
Blinding Light: Blind+knockback
Leap: Blink+Aura

The "Originality Factor:" How original is your suggestion?

This is a hard question. First of all, let's make a scale:

1: Completely Unoriginal
2: A changed copy
3: A bad mixture
4: Almost original
5: Original enough
6: Quite original
7: Very Original
8: Wow! Never thought of that before!
9: AMAZINGLY NEW
10: Completely New!

It's hard to get a basic skill like Firebolt to a 10 or 9 so I'll go up to 8 in my examples.

Firebolt: Deals damage and stuns. 8 second cooldown.
Rating: 1

A complete ripoff of a previously seen skill (hellfire blast/storm bolt)

So, as you can see, the rating system is subjective but on the other hand, the idea is simple. Things are more original the more abstract the idea is, the less seen in DotA it is, and the more it changes how both the caster and the target plays.

So, How Do I Make Something Original?

Well, thanks to JJE92, we have this helpful essay:

A short essay by JJE92

What we have learned so far is that there is no such thing as completely original. Your skills will always have some sort of similarity to other skills in DotA.
This might not really sound pleasurable at first, but it actually helps us a lot in making skills, because it allows us to refer to in-game skills without losing much originality. Since originality is relative, we can reuse some aspects of in-game skill in new ways in order to create an original skill.

This is a method I use fairly often to create new skills. It involves 4 stages:

Choosing a type of skill.
Collecting and comparing all in-game skills of this type.
Finding aspects that in-game skills of this type haven't used yet.
Working your skill out accordingly.

The success of this method lies in its requirement to both think in an organised and in a creative way. You both look at what is in-game and search for niches that are not yet filled.

I'm going to explain this in an example, because Imo that's the easiest way to compare such things.

Also, my take. He did a very good example with chain lightning and I went over some of the types of originality. The trick isn't a specific thought process but inspiration. It sounds cheesy and cliche, I'm aware. But it's true. All my best suggestions came from bits of inspiration from the real world. Keep that in mind. Originality doesn't grow on a tree, you see it, find it, and use it.

Of course, if you do want a set thought process, luckily, Chadpiety123 has our back. He came up with a little acronym of a set thought process. My own words are in red.

A note on originality: SCAMPER, it's hard to come up with something really really unique right now, especially since we already have around 400+ skills in game, but my tip is to scamper in a trial and error manner.

Of course, there comes that time when we have 3 out of 4 skills on our week's worth of inspiration mashing into original skills but we really really cannot find that 4th great skill. You got a wow ultimate, 2 normal skills to synergize, each with their own nice factor, but what are you going to do for the next skill? How can you tie it all together, and do it originally?

Well, SCAMPER, I guess. (Keep in mind I'm not always all too sure what he means)

S = Substitute
C = Combine
A = Adapt
M = Magnify
P = Put to Other Uses
E = Eliminate (or Minify)
R = Rearrange (or Reverse)

Substitute- I believe what he means is to start with a skill. Maybe substitute an extra effect in there.

Example Let's start with Magic Missile. I'm going to work up to the new Storm Bolt. (Who knows? Maybe this is how Icefrog did it.)

Combine- Mix in another skill.

Example: Well then, let's add something like AoE. Hoof Stomp! Yes! And then let's add a little bit of silence after the nuke.

Adapt- Make this fit into your hero.

Example: Clearly, Sven ain't throwing around magical missiles. Let's make it a manly hero. And you know what? I don't think he's silencing them, I think he'd daze them by throwing a hammer. So slow instead of silence yeah?

Magnify- See if you can focus in on one aspect or expand.

Example: Well, the AoE stun being thrown is clearly the new part but rather than making it like Light Strike Array, let's make it target one person and stun everyone around, like Frost nova!

[b]Put to Other Uses[/u]- See if it's a versatile skill. See what situations it would excel in and if it's not enough, see what other situations you could adapt it for.

Example Well, clearly, it's a chase and disable but that's all it does... Let's add some damage.

Eliminate (Minimize)- Take out unnecessary effects. How versatile does your skill have to be?

Example Well, do I really need to slow my enemies? For crying out loud, I have warcry to speed myself up... Take it out

Rearrange- See if there's anything you could swap out and move around in the skill.

Example Nah. I'm perfect xP

Try each one (or more than one if you will) and see how it feels. If the ability feels unique AND fluent AND coherent, it must be good.

A Useful Link: JJE92 (this guy who wrote said essay above) is creating a compilation of ALL the types of skills in DotA. This includes ones which should not be mimicked, like Reincarnation, to the most basic concepts which will always remain, and always should remain, such as stuns and nukes. Guide: Compilation of Skill Categorisation

If you're unsure a skill is original, look at the hero page and the link above for a comparison. This ought help you

Gameplay Originality: How Your Hero Plays

To start, let's make an example hero:

Skill 1- Hits a unit with a poisonous attack, dealing damage and then dealing damage every 3 seconds for 12 seconds. The poisonous attack then bounces to the next unit, increasing the duration of the damage by 3 seconds every bounce.

A fairly original-ish skill. I added chain lightning and Shadow Strike into 1 skill. It can bounce more than once onto a given unit, thus artificially extending the duration of the venom. The total effect is a new approach to a basic skill. For usage and combination, I'd give this a 5 or 5.5. Original enough.

Okay, so it's not the magnum opus of originality but I'd say all the skill are fairly original right? Original enough at least. However, the hero in of itself is not that unique.

Umm, what? You just said all the skills were fairly unique...
Individually, yes they are. Together, not so much.

What am I getting at? Well, HOW does this play ANY differently from Queen of Pain? I jump in, throw out all my nukes, and I auto attack. Pretty much. Same thing Queen of Pain does. An AoE based blinking nightmare. That's the concept of the hero and its role is exactly the same as Queen of Pain except with more team based initiation. Also, the way it pulls off its role is EXACTLY the same method that Queen of Pain would.

Remember my definition of originality earlier?

Originality- Giving a new aspect, a new way of playing DotA by a combination, execution, or use not seen before in DotA.

A NEW ASPECT of playing dota. How does this apply a new aspect of playing DotA? That's what I wanted to address here. Many think that an original skillset is all you need to be original. However, beware: The Combination, the Skillset in of itself must be unique. Just like synergy is vital to a hero suggestion (not something I'll address here), originality in role and playstyle as a whole is vital to heroes and items as well.

Why Does Anything Need to Be Original?

Good question. Why should we make the effort to make something new?

Well, let's look at some basic facts:

DotA has over 100 heroes
Each of these heroes have at least 4 skills
That equates to over 400 different skills
There are over 100 items
Many of these items have passives and actives that could have been hero skills
Many creeps have skills

That means that we've seen it all! So we want something that, when we play, will be new to us. Something that we will spend time figuring out, and enjoy the new hero. It's boring to have the same old skills and call it a new hero. That's why we want original. Every time a new hero comes out, there's multiple ways to play that hero. It's fun because the skills are so alien to us! It's fun because there's a new way to play DotA! If we're adding new heroes with old skills it does none of that for us!

Let's look at it another way:

Every time we add new heroes, we're changing the balance, the meta game, and every factor we have to consider when we play the game.

Every time we add new heroes, we're using more space with every new hero.

What does that mean? It means that if we're going to go through the trouble of implementing a suggestion, it ought be worth it; it should add something to dota. In this case, a way to play! That's why we want something original!

I know I said hero a lot, but abilities and items are included. So, yes, that's why.

Why don't we change Leoric?

I use Leoric because he receives a lot of attention. My response is this: If we change the basics, the basics become original because then they have not been seen in DotA yet. This applies to any current hero. When changing them, change them for balance, for theme, for usability, for fun factor, but not to make them more original. They ARE the originals and they need no changes.

WARNING: Originality VS Complexity

Complex and original are not the same thing! Things can be original without being complex. The trick is to not overthink it. A basic idea (like say from ladder) which nobody has thought to implement to DotA yet (Ladder Tranquility comes to mind) is proof that simple can be unique. Don't fall into the trap that so many do.

Another important thing to note is, like I said, a new suggestion completely usurps the balance of the game. So the more complex it is, the more factors, and balance issues, one has to account for. So, when making a new suggestion, keep in mind that the more each skill does, the more factors it introduces. The more factors it introduces, the more balance issues there are. Therefore, we can safely say that the more a skill does, the more balance issues it creates. So, keep it simple stupid! Remember to keep it fun and easy to know what you're doing. Yes, some heroes are fun because of difficulty and complexity (Invoker?) but if you need to spend hours figuring out what a hero's skill does, there's an issue.

Conclusion

I hope this helped, and I hope that we can redirect some newbies over here to understand all this. If there's anything I should change, add, etc. please do tell. Especially ways we can make something unique. Anyways, I hope you all benefited from this. Thanks for reading

Credits:
JJE92 for helping my intro paragraph out of a chaotic stream of consciousness to an organized useful essay. Also for his essay on original suggestions

Sven2k · 05-08-2011, 12:36 AM

I may sound kinda douchey but am I involved in the inspiration for making this thread

doomed2die · 05-08-2011, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven2k

I may sound kinda douchey but did I inspire you to make this thread

Nooo haha, why would you have inspired me to make it? If you read my introduction, the new suggesters inspired me to write this. I meant to write this like 2 months ago xD

EDIT: Got ninja'd. My answer remains though haha

damN_Grave · 05-08-2011, 12:37 AM

Long thread there. You make a lot of sense.

doomed2die · 05-08-2011, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GravedamN

Long thread there. You make a lot of sense.

Thanks. I wanted to keep it shorter but this sort of thing takes some effort to explain haha

Sven2k · 05-08-2011, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomed2die

Nooo haha, why would you have inspired me to make it? If you read my introduction, the new suggesters inspired me to write this. I meant to write this like 2 months ago xD

EDIT: Got ninja'd. My answer remains though haha

Damn

Well non the less I'm happy for these lil' tutorial threads for the new guys, I'm suprised that people have actually started posting interesting and original ideas and by original I mean interesting use of theme , role.

Monsterlord · 05-08-2011, 12:41 AM

Use Lion as another example of basic skills remaining in the game. He's a hero who's held a consistent place in high level play despite having 4 spells that are directly taken from Ladder.

doomed2die · 05-08-2011, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven2k

Damn

Well non the less I'm happy for these lil' tutorial threads for the new guys, I'm suprised that people have actually started posting interesting and original ideas and by original I mean interesting use of theme , role.

Glad my "guide" is of quality enough that you would want to be part of the inspiration

Sometimes, but I click on the newer suggestions to give people chances and I die a little inside every time I see one of them... Now I just gotta spread this link to everyone with an unoriginal idea

lol

@Monsterlord: I used Leoric because he receives attention and remember, we're not trying to deviate from ladder, we're trying to deviate from previously implemented DotA stuff. Like Tranquility, the ladder Keeper of the Grove's Ultimate? I love that skill. I want it implemented. I suggested it.

What we don't need to change is Finger of Death vs Laguna Blade imo.

kanzakill · 05-08-2011, 02:44 AM

I pursue originality simply to troll the mass for fun.

Yep, everything I do, I do it for fun.

Straight Flush · 05-08-2011, 04:56 AM

I really like this guide, but it may spawn suggestions that are overly complicated like Phoenix's skills
@kanzakill, lol

T-Up for this

NoThlnG · 05-08-2011, 05:05 AM

The example are kinda misleading because as the originality increase the length of description thus the complexity increase as well. Especially #7 and #8

DracoLich · 05-08-2011, 05:06 AM

what the point of this wall?
to tell that all possible things already used somewhere and u need more and more brainfuck to be original?

doomed2die · 05-08-2011, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoThlnG

The example are kinda misleading because as the originality increase the length of description thus the complexity increase as well. Especially #7 and #8

So I need to add a section about complexity vs originality? :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by DracoLich

what the point of this wall?
to tell that all possible things already used somewhere and u need more and more brainfuck to be original?

The point is to
A) Define originality
B) Help people be more original
C) Explain why we want originality because many newcomers don't understand why.

JJE92 · 05-08-2011, 09:34 PM

I'll think about something for #9 and #10

You could connect this with my work in progress (by adding link e.g.) http://www.playdota.com/forums/blogs/jje92/1091/skills/

What I'm trying to do is to arrange skills into certain general categories in order to compare their originality. This could help suggestors in its final version to figure out whether their skill is original or not.

It's a lot of work though, so I'd need some help ^^

doomed2die · 05-08-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJE92

I'll think about something for #9 and #10

You could connect this with my work in progress (by adding link e.g.) http://www.playdota.com/forums/blogs/jje92/1091/skills/

What I'm trying to do is to arrange skills into certain general categories in order to compare their originality. This could help suggestors in its final version to figure out whether their skill is original or not.

It's a lot of work though, so I'd need some help ^^

Feel free to PM me about it for help haha

I'm trying to keep Firebolt as the basic skill just to show how you can vary it though. Thanks haha. I'll see if I can integrate it better.

JJE92 · 05-08-2011, 09:48 PM

I will write a short essay on how to create an original skill by changing and modifying in-game skills tomorrow, because that's one of the techniques I used so often and if you know how to use it, it really can make a lot of things more original in a relatively simple way.

Anyway, #9: Sets the target aflame, dealing damage over time. Any unit standing closer than 300 range away from a unit with this effect will also be affected, causing the fire to spread.
Or: Lits the inner fire of a target. After a few seconds, the target overheats, causing him to explode and dealing damage to all nearby enemies.

doomed2die · 05-08-2011, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJE92

I will write a short essay on how to create an original skill by changing and modifying in-game skills tomorrow, because that's one of the techniques I used so often and if you know how to use it, it really can make a lot of things more original in a relatively simple way.

Anyway, #9: Sets the target aflame, dealing damage over time. Any unit standing closer than 300 range away from a unit with this effect will also be affected, causing the fire to spread.
Or: Lits the inner fire of a target. After a few seconds, the target overheats, causing him to explode and dealing damage to all nearby enemies.

Sorry, I dunno. Your first 1 just feels like the old Plague almost except it's on Ignite. The second 1 kinda feels like instant Crix's 3rd skill. 10's are impossible IMO xD And 9's are hard to come by. 6 or 7 is actually the average worshipped suggestion anyway. (On My scale)

If you have that essay, I'd definitely quote it here and cred you haha.

JJE92 · 05-09-2011, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomed2die

Sorry, I dunno. Your first 1 just feels like the old Plague almost except it's on Ignite. The second 1 kinda feels like instant Crix's 3rd skill. 10's are impossible IMO xD And 9's are hard to come by. 6 or 7 is actually the average worshipped suggestion anyway. (On My scale)

Well, it's like the old plague, but that doesn't make it less original, originality is based on what is currently in-game.
About the second, well, you could compare it to Thrall's Thunder Strike if anything, but it's very different from Crix's passive, the only thing that is the same is that it's an AoE damage.

Actually, 10's are the most epic and original ones for me, the skills that make dota most fun to play.

Some in-game examples (for me) would be:
Rubick's Spell Steal (for its effect)
AA's Ice Blast (for its targeting type)
Murloc's Shadow Dance (for its effect)
Ymir's Snowball (for its mass "blink dagger" effect)
Venge's Nether Swap (effect)
Batrider's Flaming Lasso (effect)
Storm Spirit's Ball Lightning (effect)

Some of these range somewhere between 9 and 10.

For a single-targeted #10, I'd have one effect that is controversial (but so was Spell Steal's): Possesses targeted enemy hero for a short time.

Another option for #9/#10: Deals damage and reverses the movement of the target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomed2die

If you have that essay, I'd definitely quote it here and cred you haha.

I'm writing it now, I wanted to do something like this earlier on, but never made it so far

Nevfigalo · 05-09-2011, 09:10 AM

I am missing one important part.

Originality isn't always good. For example: skill #7. I would never want to see something like that in game. Not sure about #8 as well (i would have to know mechanics/how it counts actions. I remember a storm spirit with more than 1000 APM...[caused by triggers]). Skills 1-6 are not broken in any way.

And an extra important part. Complexity is the worst possible way to create original skill.

And backtrack is not an evasion... it is just damage reduction.

Quote:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS COMPLETELY ORIGINAL

Why, because everything has cooldown, mana cost, casting range...?

Good work, maybe somebody, who need it, will read it.

JJE92 · 05-09-2011, 03:30 PM

May I suggest to expand or rewrite the "Define 'innovative'" part a bit:

Imo, two things need to get clear in here, before coming to the conclusion you made:
a) There is no such thing as completely original --> you explained it well, although it could be slightly more precise and brought to a point
b) Originality is relative --> that's not really mentioned, only hinted at, although it's Imo one of the most important things about originality

Furthermore, I'm not sure whether the example of Tether is at the right place. It sort of seems as an example for point a), but for this I think Tether is a bad example, because it is one of the few skills where something truly new (not a combination) was added to DotA, namely the targeting mechanism of creating a middle-term link between yourself and a target that has effects.
I think it would be of better use as an example of how originality can be created, so moving this example in the next chapter makes more sense Imo. You can hardly use it to define originality.

The things I added are in green, the things I changed are in yellow.

Define "Innovative"

First of all, let's get this clear. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS COMPLETELY ORIGINAL

So, what the hell is everyone talking about when they say original? What are these people looking for!? Defining innovative, new, original, etc. in terms of DotA is a very difficult thing. Since the same basics - stun, damage, aoe, debuff, buff, etc. - can't be changed and there are limits to the Warcraft III engine, we keep the same old same old. Even the most unique skills in DotA have at least one thing they share with other skills - be it CD, Mana Cost, Targeting type or even an effect.

From this follows a second point. ORIGINALITY IS RELATIVE

In general, it always has to be seen in relation to what is currently in-game. Yet, even in this relation, originality is not absolute (original/unoriginal). It is relative to how the in-game effects are used, how they are combined, and how important they are for the skill's usage. Last but not least, originality is also relative to the observer, who focuses on different parts of it.

Overall, originality (in dota) can only be defined in general terms, as giving a new aspect to playing DotA. It's not completely new and original, but by giving it certain bits of shine, a little touch here and there, we can make an amazingly new suggestion. Important is, that there is something new in it and that it's not too similar to things that are in-game.

So:

Originality- Giving a new aspect, a new way of playing DotA by a combination, execution, or use not seen before in DotA.

05-08-2011, 12:36 AM	#2
Sven2k Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: \/arna - \|3ulgaria Posts: 14,798 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Originality: What is it? Why do I need it? I may sound kinda douchey but am I involved in the inspiration for making this thread __________________ Hero Crafters wip Game Finders

05-08-2011, 05:05 AM	#11
NoThlnG Forum Staff Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nowhere Posts: 15,188 Blog Entries: 8	Re: Originality: What is it? Why do I need it? The example are kinda misleading because as the originality increase the length of description thus the complexity increase as well. Especially #7 and #8 __________________ Signature Suggestions Steam . Credits to Lotus V Eater . . Suggestion Portfolio My Ability Collections My Useful Links . . .

05-08-2011, 12:41 AM	#7
Monsterlord Banned Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,835	Re: Originality: What is it? Why do I need it? Use Lion as another example of basic skills remaining in the game. He's a hero who's held a consistent place in high level play despite having 4 spells that are directly taken from Ladder.

05-08-2011, 04:56 AM	#10
Straight Flush Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 2,110 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Originality: What is it? Why do I need it? I really like this guide, but it may spawn suggestions that are overly complicated like Phoenix's skills @kanzakill, lol T-Up for this __________________ Black Rock Shooter Suggestions Unique Agha Upgrades Latest Hero My Portfolios