New mode: -CMIB (Item Ban)

wesai · 06-23-2011, 10:04 AM

New Mode Suggestion:

Captain's Mode + Item Ban

Note that whited out items are ban-able, the rest is not.

You must be wondering what is the reason behind this? Well, the answer is simple: It brings back heroes who are poorly played in competitive leagues back in the scene. This is what IceFrog always wanted to do along with balancing the game perfectly. Also, this could be used as a test project and if it doesn't end up being that well, it simply can be a fun/different mode to be played by anyone and anywhere.

How does it work?

Two items are banned by each captain (Blue and Pink players).
Each captain bans one item then they proceed to their normal heroes banning phase.
After all 10 heroes are banned, each captain will have to ban one item again.
Then they are back to their normal picking heroes part with only two heroes from each team left to be picked.

Notes

The team which will do the first item ban does not start banning heroes and vice-versa.
No one will be able to build/buy a banned item, even if they are the ones who banned it.
After banned, the item icon will turn gray and will not be click-able.
If this item does not require a recipe, buying and mixing their components in your inventory will no longer build the item.
Most consumables and "raw" items will not be ban-able.
Out of 123 Items (currently) only 55 will be ban-able.

Pro's

[+]Introduces a new mode, therefore, getting the game less boring;
[+]Enlarges and enriches the game dynamic due to new strategies;
[+]Opens a wider variety of picks and bans.

Con's

[-]Prolongs the picking phase by around 4 possible minutes;
[-]Maybe this mode is not code-able or takes too much file size;
[-]Might corrupt our current balances.

Here's a detailed image of the items:

Application

Let's take a quick view on what would possibly be viable/happen if certain items were banned, just for example:

Because of this item that a lot of spellcasters are no longer viable anymore and banning this gives the possibility to bring their viability back in a very solid way.

Even though most people don't notice, this item alone is powerful in team-fights and heavy pushing strategies. Remove this item from the match if you don't want to see pushers or team-fighting summoners having an edge over you.

Our beloved Jah'rakal and Mortred will cry tears of happiness the moment this item is banned. Also Rikimaru or Butterfly carriers will thank as well as we will be seeing more picks for them.

If you do fear their initiation potential or heroes who can abuse this item in a good way then feel free to ban this. Knowing what your enemy is capable of while they hold Kelen's Dagger is enough to wreck havoc all over the battlefield then I would suggest banning this and focusing all your awareness on something else.

The same way you can hate Kelen's Dagger users you can also make full use of it if you ban Radiance. Not only this item nullifies the escape mechanism of kelen's Dagger but it's also pretty strong on certain heroes, specially in team-fights.

Ahh... The Black King Bar... Most spellcasters are almost useless due to this rod. Banning this item brings back our spellcasters and key heroes who get outshined by it. Removing it from the match also makes your life much easier against late-game monsters and is a safe choice if you want early burst damage to dominate the game.

Pushing strategy with Infernals or do you simply hate Phantom Lancer and his friend Stealth Assassin? Truth is, Diffusal Blade is a good counter to summoners like Warlock or Chen when it is also good to isolate heroes in team-fighting. Do you also have strategies based on hero buffs and would not like it to be purged? Ban Diffusal then!

This powerful Sauron's Eye... Ooops! I mean Observer Wards changes a lot of aspects in the game when banned. This opens a wider selection of gankers to be picked in the same way it spotlights heroes with map control like Lanaya, Rexxar, Venomancer, Nerubian Assassin and Techies with his bombs just to name a few. Also Junglers say hi!

We all wished we could be invisible at some point in our lives while heroes like Rikimaru always wished True Sight never existed. My point is: All strategies around invisibility might become viable again if Gem is entirely removed from the match. Heroes like Slardar and Gondar will be God-tier by then if this ever happens and surely would make a difference.

Does your team need to turtle and they want to be more ~~farming whores~~ passive? Then make sure to blow away the Smoke of Deceit (Yes, we miss Gorgon

).

This magical sphere once protected one of the most famous heroes in history ~~(Morphling)~~. But seriously, some key heroes are almost useless if they don't have some key items. This happens to be their key to winning and if you ban this, they will have a hard time opening the gates to victory.

Banning Combos

Pick and make your own strategy, here's some ideas I had and are just examples:

That's it! I would like to know what ideas you all have and don't forget to comment on what possible strategies you would use.

Feedback is always welcome, feel free to help me improve my suggestion with what you have to share. Have a nice day and thanks for taking your time reading/sharing your opinion.

tl;dr: ~~I suggest you to read more~~ Introducing a new mode which you ban items in CM.

I will be adding any ideas you guys have here and if people like them I will implement in my suggestion. Come on, where are all the creative minds?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrooks

I support your idea but I have an idea for it also and this goes for captains mode also but you can forfiet a max of one of your bans to save a hero/item from being banned? I dont know how that would be implemented

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerChaos

What about some team only want to ban 1 item or don't want to ban anything, since they think that it is enough and are going to use the rest?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian AngeL

Isnt 4 item too much? Honestly in my opinion 2 will be enough. Btw T-Up on idea
(if you don't like it, just don't use this command, problem??)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilvert

4 item banned, 2 each team -> How about made the 2 banned item disappears from the faction's shop, so if the other team want to buy it they have to go to the enemy's fountain.
Or if 2 item banned, 1 each team IMO just made those 2 disappear from all shop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellkn

I think its better if you not need IB when typing for this mode since its not used on ap/ar modes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireblaze762

Could be potentially really unfair.

I mean, your team picks Spec

Opponents ban radiance.

You're fucked

I think maybe if you ban 1 item before the first round of bans, and then another before the second round of bans. Seems more fair, and it serves the opponents right that they picked spectre in the first round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yago

T-Up to an item ban mode, though IMO it should be unconnected with banning heroes. it would just be like, -ib mode. But if you wanted current CM + this -cmib. I mean yeah, a lot of possibilities.

EDIT: Also,all items should be ban-able. For example, ban regen items and pick someone like Omniknight. Your team now has a massive lane advantage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWaser

Sorry for necro'ing, but honestly I love this suggestion... in a way.

On the other hand though, some items should NOT be bannable. If you make it possible to ban Invis detection such as Gem + Sentries, suddenly Slark becomes UNKILLABLE in teamfights and instantly the best hero ever, as you would need 2 dusts to reveal him (he can dispell one). Likewise techies would be completely OP, as you said. I can agree on the teamfight items ban, such as Pipe, Vlad's and BKB. Could bring a lot of different strategies into the game that are not viable as of now. However some of these consumables should not be bannable (sentries definitively not, observers probably not).

The ban of observers would increase need for heroes who can provide vision, or see globally with spells (clockwerk rocket, AA's ulti, TA's traps)

Ban on smoke would on the other hand make Hard Carries more viable, as they would not be gankable since wards would then protect them completely from ganks. Same for some easily gankable solo mids.

Ban on BKB would make scaling int carries much stronger, such as Storm, OD and maybe even Skywrath and Zeus.

I think this idea is great and honestly, I'd love to see it implemented (not counting some things wrong) as it would spice up the game immensely.

Padsoldier · 06-23-2011, 10:15 AM

If you ban an item, that is the part of a recipe (like Helm of Dominator), then you also can't buy the improved versions... So let's ban Ring of Health and Ring of Regeneration, and the enemies have to buy HoT or lifesteal if they want regeneration.
If there are some restrictions then T-up.
Edit: I can't see the picture, but I suppose those items are not bannable, so total T-up.

PowerChaos · 06-23-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Padsoldier

If you ban an item, that is the part of a recipe (like Helm of Dominator), then you also can't buy the improved versions... So let's ban Ring of Health and Ring of Regeneration, and the enemies have to buy HoT or lifesteal if they want regeneration.
If there are some restrictions then T-up.
Edit: I can't see the picture, but I suppose those items are not bannable, so total T-up.

This

O_xD · 06-23-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesai

Say no to Drugs:

+

If you don't stand smokers, shamans and all that shit then this is your choice. We want a clean atmosphere after all.

Say yes to jumping

+

If you don't want heroes jumping around, flying like they were shot from cannons and doing all that "monkeyness" because you lack fast reflexes or because you are too drunk to play a serious match, please ban these two items.

Fix'd

DracoLich · 06-23-2011, 12:35 PM

another shitty idea t_t
noone will use it.
just like -cp - many voices before implementing, months of work, forgotten 2 months after release forever.

wesai · 06-23-2011, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DracoLich

another shitty idea t_t
noone will use it.
just like -cp - many voices before implementing, months of work, forgotten 2 months after release forever.

Well, the problem is that we don't know until it's out. Did IF, you and me know that -cm would be that successful? No, we didn't know, still he implemented it.

There's a saying like this: If you don't risk it you won't whisk it. And I believe that to be true.

Edit: Also, could you care to elaborate why this will be a shitty idea? Thanks.

Lama051 · 06-23-2011, 04:53 PM

Ban boots of speed, Void Stone.
There you successfully banned fuckton of items and everybody is gonna be fast as snail.

wesai · 06-23-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lama051

Ban boots of speed, Void Stone.
There you successfully banned fuckton of items and everybody is gonna be fast as snail.

Did you even read the OP?

FleshTRNDstone · 06-23-2011, 05:14 PM

^ I doubt BoSpeed will be bannable, like RoRegeneration, etc...

I think this is ingenious really.
This really would deepen the game that much more.
Items make or break the game in most cases, and this might give support, stealth, non-carry heroes an actual fighting chance again.

I can see Manta being banned a lot, and Dagger too...
If your enemy team picks a lot of casters that normally use/rely on Dagon, it might get banned.

Techies, Lanaya and Rikimaru, rejoice!!

SavageRS · 06-23-2011, 05:14 PM

T-up. This is the MOST brilliant idea i ever seen in all the suggestions. Gives to the game soooooo much more strategy and pick/counterpick.
Absolutely T-UP!!!

DracoLich · 06-23-2011, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesai

Well, the problem is that we don't know until it's out. Did IF, you and me know that -cm would be that successful? No, we didn't know, still he implemented it.

There's a saying like this: If you don't risk it you won't whisk it. And I believe that to be true.

Edit: Also, could you care to elaborate why this will be a shitty idea? Thanks.

wuuuut?
-cm became ingame mode for 3-years-old "cm on -allpick", but with bans/picks on paper sheets.
EVERY pro-player know that it was EPIC win. W/o doubts.

And this idea dont worth even little risk of another month of work.

Cause noone will use it? Just like i told years ago about cp.

DracoLich · 06-23-2011, 06:02 PM

and just instead of gtfo:
http://www.playdota.com/forums/340498/ib-item-ban/
http://www.playdota.com/forums/5242/...-new-item-ban/
http://www.playdota.com/forums/83130...strictions-cm/

Lama051 · 06-23-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesai

Did you even read the OP?

I read it all again to be sure and I see no conflict with what I said at all.

wesai · 06-23-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DracoLich

and just instead of gtfo:
http://www.playdota.com/forums/340498/ib-item-ban/
http://www.playdota.com/forums/5242/...-new-item-ban/
http://www.playdota.com/forums/83130...strictions-cm/

Wow, really? I searched and I didn't find any of these suggestions. Maybe because they are old, a lot of new items were not even out by the time those suggestions were out?

Mine is more elaborated, though. And why the hate? Gtfo you too then if you do want to come with such attitude, there's no reason for you to stress out over a "simple" suggestion. ._.

wesai · 06-23-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lama051

I read it all again to be sure and I see no conflict with what I said at all.

Then go read a third time, items such as RoH or Void Stone are not ban-able.

Lama051 · 06-23-2011, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Most consumables and "raw" items will not be ban-able.
Out of 123 Items (currently) only 57 will be ban-able.

That is what you say about items, from that I can hardly figure out which is which can I?

wesai · 06-23-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lama051

That is what you say about items, from that I can hardly figure out which is which can I?

There's an image inside a spoiler showing them:

Notes

Highlighted items are ban-able while non-highlighted are not.

Note that Helm of the Dominator is the only item that also automatically removes another item from the game (Satanic). This happens because HotD alone has unique abilities (Dominate) and are the sole reason why it can be banned.

O_xD · 06-23-2011, 07:47 PM

can't see the image

wesai · 06-23-2011, 08:38 PM

How about now?

Lama051 · 06-23-2011, 09:15 PM

Ah well that explains a lot, still T-Downish T-Null from me.

06-23-2011, 10:15 AM	#2
Padsoldier Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 307	Re: New mode: -CMIB (Item Ban) If you ban an item, that is the part of a recipe (like Helm of Dominator), then you also can't buy the improved versions... So let's ban Ring of Health and Ring of Regeneration, and the enemies have to buy HoT or lifesteal if they want regeneration. If there are some restrictions then T-up. Edit: I can't see the picture, but I suppose those items are not bannable, so total T-up. __________________ Staff of the Warlock Magic Eye

06-23-2011, 04:53 PM	#7
Lama051 Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 4,852 Blog Entries: 1	Re: New mode: -CMIB (Item Ban) Ban boots of speed, Void Stone. There you successfully banned fuckton of items and everybody is gonna be fast as snail. __________________ \/\/ Czech this out\/\/ For solution of hotkey problems of SF and Rubick click here.

06-23-2011, 05:14 PM	#9
FleshTRNDstone Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Somewhere in known space, South-Africa Posts: 1,358 Blog Entries: 15	Re: New mode: -CMIB (Item Ban) ^ I doubt BoSpeed will be bannable, like RoRegeneration, etc... I think this is ingenious really. This really would deepen the game that much more. Items make or break the game in most cases, and this might give support, stealth, non-carry heroes an actual fighting chance again. I can see Manta being banned a lot, and Dagger too... If your enemy team picks a lot of casters that normally use/rely on Dagon, it might get banned. Techies, Lanaya and Rikimaru, rejoice!! __________________ Icarus the Phoenix (6.70 - 6.74c) Awaiting your rebirth

06-23-2011, 05:14 PM	#10
SavageRS Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: In the open wild. Posts: 1,220	Re: New mode: -CMIB (Item Ban) T-up. This is the MOST brilliant idea i ever seen in all the suggestions. Gives to the game soooooo much more strategy and pick/counterpick. Absolutely T-UP!!!

06-23-2011, 07:47 PM	#18
O_xD Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: In dane's kitchen Posts: 2,463 Blog Entries: 4	Re: New mode: -CMIB (Item Ban) can't see the image __________________ Fav vid of all time ... Click here for the first orange video tnx ZdeafZ- tnx turtlemonster- BIG tnx to ADozeNFurieS- tnx to lukedeadwalker- You may notice more than 1 thanks in my sig, yet i only have 1 image that i made myself. Thats because once in my sig, always in my sig.

06-23-2011, 08:38 PM	#19
wesai Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Brazil Posts: 2,561	Re: New mode: -CMIB (Item Ban) How about now? __________________ Onion Panda! PA Guide Suggestion (Item Banning) Check out my Mortred Guide.^^ The transparency of Death! Don't click here, click the icon above!!! Check my suggestion, it may interest you.

06-23-2011, 09:15 PM	#20
Lama051 Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 4,852 Blog Entries: 1	Re: New mode: -CMIB (Item Ban) Ah well that explains a lot, still T-Downish T-Null from me. __________________ \/\/ Czech this out\/\/ For solution of hotkey problems of SF and Rubick click here.