[Tweaks] Naga Siren skill tweaks

[BooBoox3]

Dance of the Trk'hsk
New skill to replace Rip Tide.

Naga has been my favorite DotA hero for quite a long long long time. When her critical strike was changed into rip tide, I found it interesting but as I played her more, I felt that rip tide was quite subpar and it felt odd on her. I'm proposing to change it into another skill.

well tbh first time I saw someone use rip tide I was shocked. I couldn't help saying "did that naga just sneeze on me?"

Dance of the Trk'hsk

Bewitches an enemy hero into performing a deadly dance. Both heroes will enter into a trance where they battle each other to the death.

Lvl: 1
Duration: 2.5 seconds
Casting Range: 200
CD: 20 seconds
Mana Cost: 60

Lvl: 2
Duration: 3 seconds
Casting Range:200
CD:18 seconds
Mana Cost: 75

Lvl: 3
Duration: 3.5 seconds
Casting Range: 200
CD: 16 seconds
Mana Cost: 90

Lvl: 4
Duration: 4 seconds
Casting Range: 200
CD: 14 seconds
Mana Cost: 105

Notes:

-Both Naga and the target enemy player can not control their respective heroes and Naga and the the target enemy hero will attack each other until either one of them dies or the trance ends. (Like axe's berserker's call)

-Naga will have a sub ability to cancel the trance.

-Even if one of them is disabled, the other will continue attacking. The disabled character will continue attacking once the disable is over.

-Only heroes are target-able. It would be embarrassing if it was used on a creep.

-Does not work on magic immune heroes.

Enticing Touch
A passive skill to replace rip tide.

Enticing Touch

Using a subtle combination of her hand movements and alluring voice, Slithice distracts an enemy to focus their attention on her. The affected hero will helplessly attack her during the duration. Naga and her illusions gain 50% chance to get a critical strike when attacking units under Enticing Touch.

Lvl: 1
Duration: .7 seconds
CD: 42.5 seconds
CS: x1.2 damage

Lvl: 2
Duration: .8 seconds
CD: 35seconds
CS: x1.3 damage

Lvl: 3
Duration: .9 seconds
CD : 27.5 seconds
CS: 1.4 dmg

Lvl: 4
Duration: 1 second
CD: 20 seconds
CS: 1.5 dmg
Notes:
-Not an orb effect.

-Buff placer

-Naga's illusions get this passive too.

-Does not work against magic immune units and Linken's block it.

-The skill checks if there is a Touch buff in the target unit. It will not trigger as long as there is a similar buff on the target unit. (So that it does not get wasted.)

-The buff occurs before the attack lands so it will still be applied even if the attack missed.

-Only heroes are affected.

Misty Veil
A new Active Skill to replace Rip Tide.

The Siren hums a tune that summons an alluring mist that sows confusion amongst her foes. Enemies caught inside the mist lowers their guard and frequently find themselves subconsciously moving towards the nearest Naga Siren, eventually leading to their demise.

Lvl: 1
Duration: 10 seconds
Casting Range: 100
AoE: 500
CD: 30 seconds
Mana Cost: 100
-1 armor every 3 seconds

Lvl: 2
Duration: 10 seconds
Casting Range: 200
AoE: 600
CD: 30 seconds
Mana Cost: 125
-2 armor every 3 seconds

Lvl: 3
Duration: 10 seconds
Casting Range: 300
AoE: 700
CD: 30 seconds
Mana Cost: 150
-3 armor every 3 seconds

Lvl: 4
Duration: 10 seconds
Casting Range: 400
AoE: 800
CD: 30 seconds
Mana Cost: 175
-4 armor every 3 seconds


Notes:

-While inside the mist, Naga and her illusions are given invisibility which individually breaks when they attack but do not break when they cast spells or use items. The invisibility is reapplied every 1 second while inside the mist.

-The enemies caught in the AoE have their movement speed set to 0. They are dragged towards the nearest Naga Siren or one of her Illusions at the rate of 100 distance per second.

-Enemies caught in the AoE can still attack, use items and use spells.

-Channeling spells are not affected while being dragged.

-The -armor lasts 5 seconds unless reapplied. They stack indefinitely.

Drag
New sub ability tied to Ensnare

Drag
Naga focuses mana into her four arms and drags her ensnared enemy towards herself.


Lvl: 1

CD: 5 seconds
Mana Cost: 50
Drag Speed: 200 ms


Lvl: 2

CD: 5 seconds
Mana Cost: 50
Drag Speed: 250 ms


Lvl: 3

CD: 5 seconds
Mana Cost: 50
Drag Speed: 300 ms


Lvl: 4

CD: 5 seconds
Mana Cost: 50
Drag Speed: 350 ms


Notes:

-This is a channeling skill.

-This sub-ability levels alongside ensnare.

-The channeling automatically ends the moment the ensnared target is in melee range.

-Ensnared enemies can still attack, use items and use skills while being dragged.

-Ensnared enemies can not be dragged upward cliffs. They can be dragged downwards though.

-Has global effect.

Song of the Siren
Tweak of her ultimate skill.

Song of the Siren
Releases a melody around you that mesmerizes your enemies while they are in your range. They will enter into a dreamlike state and slowly move towards naga. Units wake up if you leave the area or the duration of the melody runs out. Slithice can choose to end the melody at any point.

- Sleeping units are still invulnerable until the end of the spell.

- Enemy units still wake up when you leave the area, or at the end of the duration.

- Casting the spell again will end its duration immediately.

-Enemies under the song move at 75% their current movespeed.

-Same spell except that the enemies caught in the song will move towards Naga.

What do you guys think?

[Dire-Edict]

More of a Series of buff then tweaks... Might as well give her plus one to every skill increase per level and boost her base armor by 10. 385 base ms would be sweet too.

[Felnix]

Sorry TimeLocked... I don't see the point why naga's skill need to change.

As what you have suggested.... the current rip tide is ok... he need some Aoe skill in some situations.

Drag? So a 100% meat hook?

Song of Siren. The actual one is ok.

T-down :S

[Mr. Burns]

T-up on drag. Don't know about those others. Wouldn't be silly if enemy would automatically attack the real one and not the illusion? T-null on Song of Siren.
T-null/down on Blade dance. You know that Juggernaut's crit skill got same name?

[BooBoox3]

Ah crud. I knew blade dance was used somewhere. Hmm gotta think of a catchier name.

Deadly Tango?
Cha cha of Death?
Muscle Hustle?
Lap Dance of Death?
Dangerous Salsa?

Uck... the last one one kinda made me hungry.

Hmm now I'm split between "Dance of the Nazjara" and "Dance of the Trk'hsk"

[Dire-Edict]

Dance of the Trk'hsk lookes like an improved version of Ax's beserkers call (AoE wise). Drag add's a pudge like hook effect to net, like felnix said, and adding the effect where sleeping enemies come towards you sounds alot like a big step towards Enigmas ult to me.

Drag as a channeling "sub ability" to Nagas already uber long net is only going to extend an already very long disable. Most likely bumping it up to 7 seconds like Goblin Techies stun ward or higher.

If your really worried about enemy heros getting away from you as a Naga player, try going with a diffusal/purge build (That plus net and you will have more then enough time). What will also work is a S&Y build (4 seconds in net is plenty of time to score a maim hit plus the extra ms and the average to low net cool down they will never get away). Even an Orb of Venom is a dirt cheap option that may be viable combined with a Manta for the ms bonus.

[Flame13]

T-up on Drag
T-up on people walking towards naga (IMO 50% would be better or scaling like 25/50/75%)
T-down on Rip Tide remake...

It would add a lot of drags to naga yes, so only one should enter.
Drag and walk can't be both in-game, but I prefer the walking towards caster since it would make her more of a skill-needed to play hero than she is now...

[BooBoox3]

Originally Posted by Dire-Edict

Dance of the Trk'hsk lookes like an improved version of Ax's beserkers call (AoE wise).

Hmm but it's only a single target skill and naga will not be able to control her hero too unlike axe who can cast spells, use items and run. I think axe's call is still better than this xD

Originally Posted by Dire-Edict

Drag add's a pudge like hook effect to net, like felnix said, and adding the effect where sleeping enemies come towards you sounds alot like a big step towards Enigmas ult to me.

Hmm but unlike engima's ulti, the enemy will still remain invulnerable. I just disliked that naga's song used to be a good positioning ability but now it's just a rather ok escape mech. This will give a good yet different style of positioning during team fights.

Originally Posted by Dire-Edict

Drag as a channeling "sub ability" to Nagas already uber long net is only going to extend an already very long disable. Most likely bumping it up to 7 seconds like Goblin Techies stun ward or higher.

Drag will not function without net so the max disable duration is still 5 secs at lvl 4 net.

[Dire-Edict]

Hmm but it's only a single target skill and naga will not be able to control her hero too unlike axe who can cast spells, use items and run. I think axe's call is still better than this xD

Single Target but over double the Casting Range, Not to mention net and song. No one will ever get away.. Lol. You said it had a cancel ability, therefore you can leave anytime (while they still chase you? or it cancels the enemy control loss too?) and if you rip tide first it drops armor by 5, I like the Synergy a bit but it seems alittle too advantageous.

As far as drag goes, thumbs up on that.

Last thought on Dance of the Trk'hsk, prehaps if you made it an attack buff like Taurens enchant totem so at lease you have to hit them to entice the attack. (Even just call it Entice, Enticing Strike, or Enticing Touch(The definition sounds like it fits Nagas Character))

[BooBoox3]

Originally Posted by Dire-Edict

Single Target but over double the Casting Range, Not to mention net and song. No one will ever get away.. Lol. You said it had a cancel ability, therefore you can leave anytime (while they still chase you? or it cancels the enemy control loss too?) and if you rip tide first it drops armor by 5, I like the Synergy a bit but it seems alittle too advantageous.

As far as drag goes, thumbs up on that.

Last thought on Dance of the Trk'hsk, prehaps if you made it an attack buff like Taurens enchant totem so at lease you have to hit them to entice the attack. (Even just call it Entice, Enticing Strike, or Enticing Touch(The definition sounds like it fits Nagas Character))

Hehe. Enticing Touch sounds too naughty.

Hmm maybe I should reduce dance's casting range by half. Cancelling dance cancels the loss of control too.


Oooh what do you guys think if I make it into a passive that can benefit her illusions too? Something like this:

Enticing Touch

Using a subtle combination of her hand movements and alluring voice, Slithice distracts an enemy to focus their attention on her. The affected hero will helplessly attack her during the duration. Naga and her illusions gain 50% chance to get a critical strike when attacking units under Enticing Touch.

Lvl: 1
Duration: .7 seconds
CD: 42.5 seconds
CS: x1.2 damage

Lvl: 2
Duration: .8 seconds
CD: 35seconds
CS: x1.3 damage

Lvl: 3
Duration: .9 seconds
CD : 27.5 seconds
CS: 1.4 dmg

Lvl: 4
Duration: 1 second
CD: 20 seconds
CS: 1.5 dmg
Notes:
-Not an orb effect.

-Buff placer

-Naga's illusions get this passive too.

-Does not work against magic immune units and Linken's block it.

-The skill checks if there is a Touch buff in the target unit. It will not trigger as long as there is a similar buff on the target unit. (So that it does not get wasted.)

-The buff occurs before the attack lands so it will still be applied even if the attack missed.

-Only heroes are affected.

[Unnamed_]

I have to say it. This suggestion is moronic!
First of all, why would a hero that relies on illusions to do damage and confuse have a skill that forces the hero and the enemy to face each other for a period of time? I see the synergy with having 3 more illusions to beat the crap out of him, but in a team clash this is overpowered as it is a long ass disable, and fucks up the naga player. And 5 seconds of net for you to pound on them is long enough. 9 seconds is a complete kill, no matter how you look at it.

The other tweaks may be fine, I don't care about them. But mentioned skill alone is enough for a t-down. And a side note - Rip Tide gives bigger damage output, both to the hero and the illusions than the Critical she had. And it opens a room for another critical+ is a farming skill and a nuke. It is times better than what you proposed or her former critical.

[BooBoox3]

Bump. Added a new passive skill. Made Dance unable to go through magic immunity. Drastically lowered drag speed.

Also, added Unnamed__ to my ignore list for being rude instead of giving constructive criticism.

[Unnamed_]

Certainly. If you consider a remark on balance and applicability with the hero no constructive criticism. I am usually mannered, but this was too much. Not to mention that Rip Tide is better than the critical she had and is certainly better than a skill that fucks up 1 of Naga's other skills while making her the new Astral Trekker, who was able to keep a target from fleeing indefinitely.

[HHHNNNGGG]

Your ulti remake might please me a little...

I still prefer my old Naga...

[alwaysgorandom]

Ultimate Idea is great!

t-up.

Replacing Riptide, not so much. Its a good concept - removing armor so illusions do more damage.

Of your suggestions, the axe-like call seems the most interesting, however, not really synergistic with the illusion concept, dont you think?

[BooBoox3]

Originally Posted by alwaysgorandom

Ultimate Idea is great!

t-up.

Replacing Riptide, not so much. Its a good concept - removing armor so illusions do more damage.

Of your suggestions, the axe-like call seems the most interesting, however, not really synergistic with the illusion concept, dont you think?

Hmm it's somewhat synergetic with illusions because the main hero will occupy the target while her illusions pound from the sides. It's quite useful in keeping her illusions alive mid game where she usually doesn't have HoT or butterfly yet.

It excels in situations where there are fewer enemy heroes but I wanted to give Naga some advantages or rather some unique characteristics in her playstyle because she's currently overshadowed by other heroes especially when her ulti got reworked to not work on buildings anymore.

[Flame13]

Taunting is anti-synergic with illusions since the whole illusion concept is not about +damage but about making confusion in enemies ranks, grants you in a way more HP or if you like the term of more survivability...Also you can use mind-games with moving illusion back fleeing so they think that's real one while you and the other two continue to hit the enemy. Or many similar tricks...taunting reveals your position and so it is just NOT good...

[BooBoox3]

Originally Posted by Flame13

Taunting is anti-synergic with illusions since the whole illusion concept is not about +damage but about making confusion in enemies ranks, grants you in a way more HP or if you like the term of more survivability...Also you can use mind-games with moving illusion back fleeing so they think that's real one while you and the other two continue to hit the enemy. Or many similar tricks...taunting reveals your position and so it is just NOT good...

Yes I do that. I utilize a lot of tricks using illusions. I even treat mirror image as an escape mech during early game.

Rip tide makes it obvious who the real naga is too.

[Flame13]

At start of an attack yes but wise people use it before split...also it does for a small period of time while your suggested ideas reveal him for more time...

[BooBoox3]

Originally Posted by Flame13

At start of an attack yes but wise people use it before split...also it does for a small period of time while your suggested ideas reveal him for more time...

only one of my suggested ideas reveal the real naga and that's only if not used properly.