[COLLECTION] Unique Concepts for New Heroes

[JJE92]

[COLLECTION] Unique Concepts for New Heroes

__________________________________________________

INTRODUCTION

We all are so familiar with the problems of the hero idea subforum. Many mediocre hero suggestions get spammed. It's hard to see what is in the hero suggestion just by looking at the thread title. That makes it very hard to find implementable stuff.
If something is implemented, it's rarely a complete hero, usually only 1 or 2 skills and the general idea of a hero, so suggestions with more than that are also filled with useless stuff.
This collection, which will be collaborated (anyone can help collecting this concepts), aims at solving these problems. This collection is intended to collect unique concepts for new heroes. Unique concepts that lead to a new way to play DotA. These concepts will be shortly presented, different workout ideas can be proposed, if possible, even complete workouts as a hero suggestion can be presented.

YOU can help, everyone of you should help, because obviously, I can't do this all by myself. So if you have ideas, examples or anything helpful whatsoever, feel free to post it.


__________________________________________________

CHANGELOG

September 06, 2011

• Posted this collection
• Added Introduction
• Added Changelog
• Added Table of Contents
• Added Concepts "Healing allies by attacking them with your normal attack", "Shielding yourself with every spellcast", "Transferring damage taken by allies to yourself", "Merging with an ally to support him", "Turning around enemies to be effective" and "Remaining underleveled and profitting of it"

September 08, 2011

• Added To-Do-List

September 14, 2011

• Added Concepts "Sliding" and "Using a permanent untargetable orb to place your skills"

September 15, 2011

• Added Concepts "Forcing enemies to change their direction to your profit" and "Resurrecting allied heroes for a short time"

September 16, 2011

• Added Concepts "Disrupting the teamwork and synergy between enemy heroes" and "Seperating an enemy hero completely from his allies"

September 19, 2011

• Added Concepts "Countering carries by negating their item advantage", "Resurrecting one killed enemy hero", "Becoming stationary for other benefits" and "Attacking enemies from fog without being revealed"

January 16, 2012

• Added Concept "Relentless Casting"

__________________________________________________

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Healing

Healing allies by attacking them with your normal attack

Tanking

Shielding yourself with every spellcast
Transferring damage taken by allies to yourself

Supporting

Merging with an ally to support him

Movement

Turning around enemies to be effective
Sliding
Forcing enemies to change their direction to your profit
Becoming stationary for other benefits

Experience/Level

Remaining underleveled and profitting of it

Spell Placement

Using a permanent untargetable orb to place your skills

Resurrection/Afterlife

Resurrecting allied heroes for a short time
Resurrecting one killed enemy hero

Disabling

Disrupting the teamwork and synergy between enemy heroes

Positioning

Seperating an enemy hero completely from his allies

Items

Countering carries by negating their item advantage

Vision

Attacking enemies from fog without being revealed

Spells

Relentless Casting

__________________________________________________

CONCEPTS

Healing

Healing allies by attacking them with your normal attack

Explanation:

The general idea is that a hero has a skill which allows him to attack his allies, but instead of dealing damage to them, this heals them. In the current DotA, heals are usually just casted and don't scale all that well into the late-game. This skill would this, because it scales with the attack damage which is usually better in the lategame. Furthermore, such a heal also puts you in a situation where you have to chose: do you want to deal damage or heal - you can't just do both. Due to its nature, this skill is suited for supportive semi-carry.

Further Workout Ideas:

1) This idea forces heroes to make a choice between healing allies and damaging enemies with your normal attack. Therefore, a hero with skills that have both defensive and offensive uses, who has to adapt to the flow of a battle by chosing carefully which aspect he takes, would fit well to such a concept.

Examples:

[NEUT-AGI] Kur'talos Whisperwing, Balance Druid (by JJE92, winner entry of CtH 9) - Example for further workout idea no. 1

Tanking

Shielding yourself with every spellcast

Explanation:

This would basically be a hero with 3 actives and 1 passive. The passive makes every spellcast give you a shield that protects you from incoming damage. This allows the hero to build up a presence and danger for enemies with his skills that could be of either supportive or damaging nature, and at the same time remain quite tanky with his shields, so that he's far from easy to kill. The natural counter of such a concept are obviously disables that prevent spellcasts.

Further Workout Ideas:

The shield can be many things. It can be invulnerability for a short time, granting you complete damage immunity (although this would reduce your "aggro", so you don't tank really). It can be a shield with raw numbers like Abaddon's, but also with a percentage of your HP.
For the whole hero, here are two general directions of workouts:
1) The supportive workout. This allows for a tank-support that helps his allies through his skills. At the same time, he remains hard to kill, because his skills also grant him a shield.
2) The offensive workout. This allows for an offensive nuker that is quite beefy. He can use his offensive skills to hurt enemies, but the shield keeps him alive and allows him to cast his skills over and over again.

Examples:

[WIP][INT-SENT] Unnamed, the Untitled (by NoThlnG, still incomplete) - Example for workout idea no. 1

Transferring damage taken by allies to yourself

Explanation:

The core idea is to have a skill that allows you to transfer any damage taken by nearby allies to yourself, so that you take the damage instead of your allies. This hero would be the second "true" tank in DotA aside from Axe.

Further Workout Ideas:

The most important factor in a workout of this concept is that the hero needs to be tanky enough to really use such a skill to its true potential. Nevertheless, he also shouldn't be completely focused on this concept, that would be too one-sided, there should also be something else added.

Examples:

[STR-SENT] Ballador, the Elite Guard (by NoThlnG) - a toggleable workout of this idea
[STR-SENT] Kryad Orines,The Guardian (by DamnedKnight) - only transfers damage taken by 1 ally to yourself, but in general the same idea
[SENT-STR] Mephisto, the Paladium Knight (by The][nquisitoR) - an active version of this idea with a duration

Supporting

Merging with an ally to support him

Explanation:

Similarly to Naix' Infest, this hero would have a skill that makes him completely untargetable by merging with an ally. Doing this grants a support hero two major advantages. First of all, he can buff a carry or another powerful ally and make him even stronger. Secondly, he can cast his skills from a safe position, where he doesn't get focus-fired down right away, which allows the support to be useful and more than cannon fodder for the enemy.

Further Workout Ideas:

This skill should be worked out carefully, because it can easily become oped or uped. The buffs for the targeted ally should be useful, but not too strong, a nice stat buff, perhaps HP and damage buff would be suitable. They can be dependent on the support hero's stats, which would remain it balanced. Furthermore, the support hero should be restricted while merged, but not idle. He should neither be able to control the actions of his ally nor perform attacks, but he should still be able to cast his skills. To be counterable, he should still be affected by AoE skills and if his ally dies while he is merged, he should have some disadvantage when being seperated.
There are two general directions for a workout of this skill.
1) The babysitting option: This is probably the best direction, because it suits such a skill most. The support hero merges with the carry to babysit him and make him quite powerful even early-game, while still being able to support him with his skills.
2) The fragile spell-placement option: This is less directed at supporting the ally you merge with, but more at using a tanky ally to be able to place your skills next to enemies, what you usually would not be capable of doing.

Examples:

Jirachi, the Wishmaker (by chadpiety123, winner entry of CtH 5) - Example for further workout idea no. 1
Gyokuro, the Emerald Dream Sentry (by gamerinboxers) - Example for further workout idea no. 2

Movement

Turning around enemies to be effective

Explanation:

A hero with such a concept would have skills that make him spin, turn around his enemies and similar connected with turning to be effective. The hero would definitely be a caster, because with such a concept you hardly find the time to attack in between your movement and turning. He needs to be not too easy to kill, because this concept forces him to be relatively close to the enemies, in teamfights perhaps even in the middle of 5 enemies.

Further Workout Ideas:

asdf

Examples:

[INT-NEUT] Blazefury, the Lava Spirit (by NoThlnG)

Sliding

Explanation:

Such a hero is able to modify terrain underfoot so that enemies (and allies) lose control. They cannot "steer" their hero precisely and proceed to slide on the modified terrain. It is also possible that the slippery terrain provides a movement speed increase for allies. This concept mainly does two things. Obviously, it's great for chasing along with your allies. Moreover, it makes AoE teamfight strats really difficult to handle, because the teams get spread by the sliding and have a hard time coordinating their comboes. Furthermore, it allows you and your team a quick positioning, although this could be true as well for your enemies.

Further Workout Ideas:

There must be a good and well thought out balance of benefits/penalties for being on the slippery terrain, because theoretically, this sliding can be both advantageous and disadvantageous for your enemies. Your allies and yourself having a higher movement speed and turning rate than the enemy team on the slippery terrain would give you an advantage no matter what. Potentially, you could also make your other abilities power up when used on such terrain or be indirectly more powerful in such situations.

Example:

[Scourge-STR] Slourm, Sludge Wreck (by Mazil)

Forcing enemies to change their direction to your profit

Explanation:

This hero would have many skills that force enemies directly or indirectly to change their direction, turn and rotate. By doing this, you already gain a huge advantage over your enemies. They have to walk longer ways, go somewhere they don't want to go and especially melees will have a hard time to keep attacking you and your allies constantly. But rangeds will also have a hard time keeping their range advantage. But this hero not only changes his enemies' direction, but could also use each of these direction changes to create more havoc.

Further Workout Ideas:

There are many ways to force an enemy to change their direction:
a) direct trigger (similar to a disable)
b) the often suggested fear (running around randomly)
c) creating obstacles that enemy have to walk around
d) reversing enemies' movement orders
The hero could use each direction change to deal damage to his enemies, but he could also use this to empower himself or his allies or debuff his enemies in some way - depending on what you need in your combo.

Examples:

[INT-SCOURGE]Darkshade the Realmwalker (by R.B.Economy (formerly Eturn), winner entry of CtH 3) - the perfect example for such a concept

Becoming stationary for other benefits

Explanation:

This concept forces the hero to give up his movement capabilities in order to gain other advantages. The disadvantages of being stationary are obvious, you can't chase or flee, you need long ranges to be able to attack. These disadvantages would need to be countered by the benefits.

Further Workout Ideas:

There are various further workout ideas supporting this concept.
1) The classic workout idea is that of a long-range caster. This caster gains a large amount of vision of the area around him, so that he's relatively safe from being killed while stationary. Furthermore, his skills and attack range are long-ranged and get further enhanced while stationary, so that he can sit somewhere without worries, receive vision of his enemies and attack them from far away without too much of danger.
2) The second workout idea is that of a bothersome tank. This tank stays around his allies bringing havoc in the area around which he's stationary and just bothers enemies that try to kill his allies, so that they cannot do their job effectively. He doesn't need to flee or chase, because he's hard to kill and his allies stay around him, so that enemies have to deal with him. This concept could be very well combined with "Transferring damage taken by allies to yourself".

Examples:

Radiantbark, the Treant Nightwatcher (by Nozumu, winner entry of CtH 16) - the perfect example for workout idea no. 1
The Sidereal Engine once used that concept in DotA, it's problem was just that it combined the artillery and tankiness concepts into one and thus became incredibly overpowered. Keep that in mind if you create such a hero ^^

Experience/Level

Remaining underleveled and profitting of it

Explanation:

A hero with such a concept is preferably a support or even a roamer, because these are heroes that naturally remain underleveled. To control his experience and level gain, this hero should have a skill - preferrably an innate skill that has not to be leveled - that prevents any experience gain. This has some advantages in laning, because you can help your farmers and be a presence without leaching any experience. Although you shouldn't be too underleveled, it's still not as much of a problem if you have a lower level than your enemies, because your skills are more powerful against enemies of a higher level.

Further Workout Ideas:

To compensate being underleveled, this hero should have high base stats, but relatively low stat-gains. In order to protect yourself against heroes with a higher level, who are usually more dangerous, this hero could also have a skill that reduces incoming damage by heroes with a higher level. This support hero shouldn't focus on killing enemies obviously, because he already makes his allies more dangerous by increasing their experience, but what he exactly does - be it disabling or buffing, depends heavily on the workout.

Examples:

No well enough worked out example yet.

Spell Placement

Using a permanent untargetable orb to place your skills

Explanation:

The idea is simple: From level 1 onwards, this hero would carry an untargetable and invulnerable orb with him. With your skills, you are able to control the movement of this orb and all of your skills' effects are somewhat connected to the orb (happen in an area around the orb, in a line between you and the orb, etc.). This concept alone allows for a unique gameplay. The enemies don't have to look out so much for you, but for your orb, because he's the source of your effectiveness. You can stay far behind and control your orb, so that you can safely perform actions.

Further Workout Ideas:

There are many possible ways you could control the orb's movement:
a) direct point targeting
b) targeting an enemy/ally the orb flies towards
c) the orb travels in the direction your hero faces (Example: Pulsar)
There are also many options on where the effects happen, they should just be all connected to the orb.
The hero could both be of supportive or damaging nature, that mostly depends on the effects.

Examples:

Unfortunately, I haven't found such a hero idea yet and I'm too lazy to make one by myself.

Resurrection/Afterlife

Resurrecting allied heroes for a short time

Explanation:

This would be a perfect concept for a carry. You might think that it's the supports' job to keep their carry alive - yes, but that's in the early-game. In the late-game, the carries can't be focused down easily anymore, so usually, supports and other squishies are being focused. As powerful as a carry can get in the late-game, he still can't win fights single-handedly against five enemies, he needs his allies to some extent. If your allies die and you're the only one alive against a whole enemy team, then you usually won't survive, even if you are fully farmed. This concept puts your enemies in a precarious situation. They can't focus you when you're farmed with your whole team next to you, but they can't simply get rid of your allies either. Depending on the workout, this skill can have great utility before the late stages already.

Further Workout Ideas:

Okay, I'll lay out my favourite workout idea that I came up with when thinking about a CtH entry by Beary:
1) This would be a global workout of this concept. You have an active as your Ultimate that lets all your allied heroes on the map live on for a few seconds if they should die within the duration of the skill. This skill would fit perfectly into the 4-protect-1 strategy, where you farm as much as possible and your allies put the enemy under pressure to protect you and keep them from hindering you. If they should engage a disadvantageous fight (4vs5 might happen while you farm), you can still help them with this ultimate and help your allies this way to finish off your enemies. The ultimate would protect you as well, because enemies die through it, so they can't gank you. In the late-game, you would use this skill to win teamfights, so that you can push into the enemy's base.
Your other skills can help you carry and most importantly survive, potentially you could even direct damage you receive to nearby allies.

Examples:

Alastor, the Lonely Crusader (by Beary) - It's not a perfect example for this, because there are other issues with the hero, and it also resurrects units and enemy heroes, but it's the only example I have so far and this concept is based on Beary's hero idea

Resurrecting one killed enemy hero

Explanation:

This concept focuses on killing an enemy hero and resurrecting him under your control. This mainly allows you to turn a 5vs5 teamfight quickly into a 6vs4 teamfight if you focus the correct target and kill him off quickly. Furthermore, this concept could allow you to single-handedly kill multiple enemy, because if you already killed one, you can turn a 1vs2 into a 2vs1.

Further Workout Ideas:

The question of the workout mainly centres on how you gain the resurrection effect.
a) You could make it an active that debuffs a targeted enemy, this enemy will be resurrected under your control if he dies while the debuff is active on him.
b) You could make it a passive that gives the resurrection effect on the next enemy hero you kill with a pretty long CD.
c) You could make it an aura that resurrects the next enemy that dies in the AoE, also with a long CD
I personally think that a) is the most plausible workout, because it's the least random, requires some timing and skill, doesn't depend on who kills the target and gives you most control.

Examples:

Unfortunately, I haven't found a hero with such a concept yet.

Disabling

Disrupting the teamwork and synergy between enemy heroes

Explanation:

This hero's sole purpose would be to stop enemies from comboing your allies and working together. This hero would be able to ruin early-game ganks that rely on spell comboes of multiple heroes, he would make it hard for enemies to get off a combo to kill one of your allies. They would even have a hard time supporting each other.

Further Workout Ideas:

There are a variety of skills that could fit into this concept:
a) A skill that gives nearby allies a shield whenever they are affected by an enemy skill. This shield will for a short time cancel any skill that is attempted to be cast on the unit with the shield and the caster will be stunned (an effective counter to focus fire)
b) A skill that would store damage dealt by enemies in an AoE and deal damage based on it when released (a counter to AoE comboes)
c) A skill (probably ultimate) that would drastically reduce sight (to sth like 400), disable allied sight (you can only see things around you, even on the minimap nothing else is visible anymore, not even towers) and possibly even disable allied chat and pings for your enemies for a short time.

Examples:

Radamanthos, the Arcane Guardian (by Kanashimi) - This supports further workout idea skill a)

Positioning

Seperating an enemy hero completely from his allies

Explanation:

This hero is capable of seperating an enemy hero from his allies, allowing him to initiate on far away heroes and taking them with you to your allies, or reposition an enemy away during a teamfight, so that he has to come back first. Obviously, this effect is very powerful, because it can easily create a 5vs3 teamfight scenario in your favour, so for it to be counterable, it has to depend on timing and quick reactions. The effect needs to remain blockable by BKB or Linken's Sphere.

Further Workout Ideas:

1) The first workout idea of this concept is a hero that can devour an enemy for a short time and thus move him with you. To be able to initiate or removing the enemy from the teamfight, he has an ultimate that allows him to move back and forth once between his current position and a targeted location within a relatively long range.

Examples:

[STR-SCR] Gargantuous, the Purple Worm (by The][nquisitoR ) - The perfect example for workout idea no. 1

Items

Countering carries by negating their item advantage

Explanation:

There are many heroes in DotA already that counter carries by ruining their early-game. A hero with this concept would be different, he would counter carries by ruining their late-game. What makes carries stronger than any other type of hero at that stage is mainly their item advantage. No other hero role can make so much use of items than carries do. A hero with this concept could copy their items, remove some of their items or make use of their farm in some other way.

Further Workout Ideas:

I've found two possible workout ideas so far:
1) With intricate timing, this hero could remove enemies' items for a short time, negating the carry's advantage for a short time. Furthermore, he can copy one item of a targeted enemy to further counter the enemy team's item advantage. Furthermore, he could make use of item casts for his team's advantage.
2) This hero needs only 1 skill with such a concept to work. This skill would remove all the items from any hero on the map for a short time and buff your allies' attributes. This would remove any farm for a short time, which could be disadvantageous for your allies, but the attribute bonus counters the negative side-effects. Furthermore, this hero would not be picked in a late-game team, but only to counter an enemy late-game team.

Examples:

[Neutral-Str]: Ardalos, the Blacksmith (by Gazar-) - the perfect example for further workout idea no.1

Vision

Attacking enemies from fog without being revealed

Explanation:

This concept allows for an unusual rogue. Unlike Murloc, where you know exactly where he is but simply can't target him, this hero will try to stay in the fog, unseen, confuse enemies and try to kill them as soon as possible before they catch him.

Further Workout Ideas:

1) This hero should attack from a range, so that he isn't revealed asap. With the help of vision reducers for enemies and sight-giving skills for himself, he can kill his enemies without being seen. In order for them not to find him, he can create confusion, change their movement, and even if they try to flee, he will just attack from a further increasing range without being seen. And if he should be found, he can still hinder his enemies and deal massive damage to them.

Examples:

[AGI-SCRG] Rakkel Blindeye, the Shadow Rogue (by king_james) - no hero idea on this forum plays as much with a vision advantage as this one, trying to keep the vision advantage, creating a range advantage, even disabling any of his own sight except for the sight granted through his skills, but still being capable of finishing enemies off from a relatively long range. The most unusual and arguably the most original rogue on this forum.

Spells

Relentless Casting

Explanation:

This hero has one specialty: He has a skill that allows him to cast all of his skills without CDs for a short time. This makes him incredibly strong and powered up for a short time and do things that he usually couldn't do with his skills. The MC of the skills and the casting animation still limits the possibilities.

Further Workout Ideas:

There are different workout options for the skill:
a) It could be a channeling Ultimate that after channeling allows one to use all of the skills without CD for the time of the channeling.
b) It could be simply an instant cast buff with this effect for a (very) short time.
The other skills should be able to be somehow comboed up and profit from the ult by being more effective, potentially even have other usages without CD, so that the hero truly powers up when using this skill. They should also not be too strong, so that casting them without CD doesn't make him overpowered (like perma-disables).

Examples:

[AGI-SENT] Hoang, the Divine Monk (by carlvic) - he uses a modified version of further workout idea a).

__________________________________________________

TO-DO-LIST

- dynamic charge system (similar to these ones: http://www.playdota.com/forums/44898...i/#post2340986, Complete the Hero XIV - Page 8 - DotA Forums)
- a hero with special interactions between his skills (http://www.playdota.com/forums/8668/...clans-testmap/)
- Adapting to the environment



Here's my layout to use:

[nqb][CENTER][COLOR="Blue"][B][SIZE="3"][a=]asdf[/a][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR][/CENTER]

[COLOR="Orange"][B]Explanation[/B][/COLOR]:[INDENT]asdf[/INDENT][COLOR="Orange"][B]Further Workout Ideas[/B][/COLOR]:[INDENT]asdf[/INDENT][COLOR="Orange"][B]Examples[/B][/COLOR]:[INDENT]asdf[/INDENT][/nqb]

[NuclearCookie]

Healing: I have thought of it, but dismissed the idea as it creates too much disruption in your own team, and coding would be problematic. On to the tanking specs, all I want to add is to the second one, Kryad Orines, the Guardian, by DamnedKinght uses this concept.

Currently almost all concepts and themes are overused, and creating new ones is difficult. This list, if it prospers, would be of great help.

[menage0a0trois]

An all passive hero could be interesting.

Kidding aside, I think "Experience/Level: Remaining underleveled and profitting of it" is a rather risky/dangerous premise to play with because it actively demands the player to not get experience. It puts us at the scenario where a player will actively avoid leveling-up for the sake of keeping his advantage. I think this concept should NOT actively encourage a hero to be under-leveled but rather shield him for the cons of being under-leveled, thus encouraging/empowering roaming.

Also, Permanent Structures/Builder Hero.

Explanation:

Clarification, permanent simply refer to duration. They could still be destroyed and what not. Structures simply mean that they are static/immobile. They can simply be permanent wards, illusions, summons, etc.

This has been much debated, and there are suggestions for this, though very few, if any, are even worth mentioning. There are two main arguments I can find against this is.

The first is that, such a hero delays the game, lengthening game time extensively. A hero that can create permanent static defenses can make pushing far too dangerous.

The second is that, past a certain level, the hero stops needing to leave the base, aside from replanting destroyed structures. That having permanent structures encourages passive play.

These are legitimate concerns but I believe there are way to circumvent such issues.

Further Workout Ideas:

Let's start with the first issue. Builders will delay the game. My first counter argument is so does BoT Tinker, Techies, as well as most anti-pushers. The Chinese competitive scene is notorious for their turtling strategy. That isn't to say that extraneously extending game time isn't an issue but rather that there are ways to keep the concept from being broken. The most effective IMO being tied to the second argument.

Passive play. I believe, of the two, this is the more pressing issue. A Builder Hero that whose concept greatly encourages an active play-style IMO would also solve the first issue. An Active-Builder stands to risk more than a Passive one. Most anti-pushers/turtlers require the hero to actually be there to do their thing.

Another solution, mostly for the first, though still partly applying to the second, is counters. Techies for example is thwarted by true sight abilities. He is also very squishy, and all his mines take a while to plant, Stasis Trap going so far as to have delayed activation.

Examples:

LOL.

[NoThlnG]

Frankly speaking, didn't thought that Blazefury and Ballador will make it in here though I expected the shield one (personally I prefer the concept I used in here and here instead of two of them.

Also, some of the ideas I really love :

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/35678...er-chosen-one/ I really like the concept of Expelliarmus skill. Kinda hard to describe though.

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/35954.../#post1882014/ It had a really nice concept of Earth/Water/Nature. Too bad he made the skill too complicated

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/35954.../#post1883552/ Very nice concept via light and dark power.

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/40033.../#post2073398/ Though it was too complicated, I still like that concept lol

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/24507.../#post1229582/ The first skill concept was brilliant.

I'm sure I have more other hero suggestions with great concept but I have limit in my memory lol

[Master Chief]

On the Transferring damage from allies, this hero fits that perfectly.

I don't know where it goes, but this hero is also very unique.

I like this thread though =D It should help present some interesting ideas and concept for future suggestions.

[NoThlnG]

Also, here's few concepts that I had thought but didn't posted as hero suggestion yet

- Puppet Master : Will have one default skill (learnt at lvl 1) to create a puppet. While controlling the puppet, the hero will be unable to be controlled totally. The puppet will share the experience etc with the hero. Puppet will have skills, stats, etc which is exactly same with the hero. In short, it is a hero that maximizes the Syllabear's gameplay with more risks.

- Combo Player : Have several skills that will cause another skills when used one after another. Think like sth in Tekken or other fighting games where pressing one button after another will cause more varied move.

[JJE92]

Originally Posted by FlameTalon

Healing: I have thought of it, but dismissed the idea as it creates too much disruption in your own team, and coding would be problematic. On to the tanking specs, all I want to add is to the second one, Kryad Orines, the Guardian, by DamnedKinght uses this concept.

Currently almost all concepts and themes are overused, and creating new ones is difficult. This list, if it prospers, would be of great help.

Added DamnedKnight's suggestion.

About the healing: Yes, coding wouldn't be easy, but it's feasible and definitely with DotA 2. It creates disruption in your team? What do you mean by it? If you made the animation different than your usual attack animation, then this would make it more easy to detect what is going on already.




__________________________________________________ _____

Originally Posted by menage0a0trois

An all passive hero could be interesting.

If I find an interesting one with a unique playstyle resolving around his attacks, one that actually needs strategical thinking and not just auto-attacking, then I would even add this concept
Unfortunately, I haven't found anything like this yet ^^

Originally Posted by menage0a0trois

Kidding aside, I think "Experience/Level: Remaining underleveled and profitting of it" is a rather risky/dangerous premise to play with because it actively demands the player to not get experience. It puts us at the scenario where a player will actively avoid leveling-up for the sake of keeping his advantage. I think this concept should NOT actively encourage a hero to be under-leveled but rather shield him for the cons of being under-leveled, thus encouraging/empowering roaming.

Well, it's clear that a certain mid-way has to be found. Being completely underleveled would be harmful even for this hero, because he would lose too much on skill levels (which are still very important) and stats. I think that if properly worked out this concept would leave the support/roamer with many new tactical choices. It doesn't force him to be under-leveled, but if needed, it can definitely be not a draw-back either. How the hero would look like depends heavily on the second aspect in the concept, because obviously, only this concept alone would not be enough for a complete hero.

Originally Posted by menage0a0trois

Also, Permanent Structures/Builder Hero.

Okay, I know what you mean.
Actually, I wanted to participate in CtH 14 with a relatively similar idea, but forfeited because I couldn't make it ^^

The first problem I actually encountered while trying this, was that the most feasible workout of such a concept is already in-game to some extent. Veno's wards might not be permanent, but they have a similar idea. You plant them, they stay at this place and function like a building, except for that you can control their attack. And if you look at Venomancer, yes, he can stop pushes, but with such a skill you can also push a lot faster and more efficient, which accelerates the game.

The second problem is that it acts similar to summons like Broodmother's Spiderlings, just a bit worse perhaps. You can leave the lane, do whatever you want, but still push the lane and lasthit.
Or you can stay in a lane, pushing it constantly while being close to impossible to kill in a 1vs1 due to your turrents and take considerable effort to kill, which is again similar to Broodmother.
In League of Legends, there actually is one hero who can build permanent immobile turrets and he functions basically very similar to what I've just mentioned about Broodmother (Heimerdinger the Revered Inventor - League of Legends Wiki - Champions, Items, Strategies, and many more!).




__________________________________________________ _____

Originally Posted by NoThlnG

Frankly speaking, didn't thought that Blazefury and Ballador will make it in here though I expected the shield one (personally I prefer the concept I used in here and here instead of two of them.

Well, Ballador had one of the most often used concept for tanks and it's the first one I could recall, so don't be that surprised about him ^^

Added Apollyon into my collection, but about Sapphiron I'm not so sure. What's his unique gameplay, I mean, we already have Crystal Maiden that slows and freezes, Glaciate is now taken by Thrall. Many heroes can keep multiple enemies in a place, Warlock's Upheaval can also do that.

Originally Posted by NoThlnG

Also, some of the ideas I really love :

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/35678...er-chosen-one/ I really like the concept of Expelliarmus skill. Kinda hard to describe though.

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/35954.../#post1882014/ It had a really nice concept of Earth/Water/Nature. Too bad he made the skill too complicated

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/35954.../#post1883552/ Very nice concept via light and dark power.

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/40033.../#post2073398/ Though it was too complicated, I still like that concept lol

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/24507.../#post1229582/ The first skill concept was brilliant.

I'm sure I have more other hero suggestions with great concept but I have limit in my memory lol

Harry Potter: While Expelliarmus is an interesting skill, it's not really enough to form a gameplay concept for a hero.

The Selected: Adapting to the environment certainly is an interesting idea, added this into my list. This concept could lead to a new support/roamer/jungler that has advantages he can make use of depending on his surroundings

Light/Darkness: I'll add this to my point "dynamic charge system"

Cardmaster: You'd need a simplified version of this, I mean it's more complicated than Invoker lol

About my last one: it's already in the OP, "Healing allies by attacking them with your normal attack"





__________________________________________________ _____

Originally Posted by Master Chief

On the Transferring damage from allies, this hero fits that perfectly.

I don't know where it goes, but this hero is also very unique.

I like this thread though =D It should help present some interesting ideas and concept for future suggestions.

Added Mephisto.

I don't really know where to add Aeolid so far either :/






__________________________________________________ _____

Originally Posted by NoThlnG

Also, here's few concepts that I had thought but didn't posted as hero suggestion yet

- Puppet Master : Will have one default skill (learnt at lvl 1) to create a puppet. While controlling the puppet, the hero will be unable to be controlled totally. The puppet will share the experience etc with the hero. Puppet will have skills, stats, etc which is exactly same with the hero. In short, it is a hero that maximizes the Syllabear's gameplay with more risks.

- Combo Player : Have several skills that will cause another skills when used one after another. Think like sth in Tekken or other fighting games where pressing one button after another will cause more varied move.

Puppet Master: Needs to be thought about. The question is how to work it out so that it remains different enough from Syllabear, balanced and feasible for DotA.

Combo Player: Yes, that has been suggested pretty often. I'm still actually looking for a version, where not only the idea of the comboes is unique, but the hero also fills a unique role and niche in DotA that is different from other fighters.

[NoThlnG]

Oh, and about merging, I actually had a suggestion where you merge with your "own" units that I got idea from WC3's Hippogryph Rider (link if you want to know though it was kinda meh suggestion)

And for Sapphiron, his main concept is not simply slowing enemies, but utilize the slow to damage enemies via 3rd skill (which is the core skill that defines his gameplay)

[NoThlnG]

Oh, and about merging, I actually had a suggestion where you merge with your "own" units that I got idea from WC3's Hippogryph Rider (link if you want to know though it was kinda meh suggestion)

And for Sapphiron, his main concept is not simply slowing enemies, but utilize the slow to damage enemies via 3rd skill (which is the core skill that defines his gameplay)

[patrishosho]

Is codability A must?? cuz dota2 is coming anyways..

[NoThlnG]

Originally Posted by patrishosho

Is codability A must?? cuz dota2 is coming anyways..

1. If you can make a codeable hero, why go for uncodeable one.

2. Dota will still be developed after Dota 2 released.

[HΞADSHΘΓ]

Healing/Support
============
Transfer HP/Mana to allies + while moving[old TB skill]. When used on foe, slows them down by -X MS% for every missing X% of max mana/hp.

[E02K]

For:
-Chaser
-Old Hero
-Contains an Old Hero's Skill ( old spectre's 2nd skill, haunt as ultimate)
http://www.playdota.com/forums/481911/sent-agirider/

[patrishosho]

How about a hero based on soul linker from Ragnarok online. Which can can merge with other heroes (not wisp) and buff them.
this hero will be like a living aghanim's scepter..
The hero is basically useless unless merged with other heroes.
each hero will be buffed differently (unlike wisp) When merged,
the hero will be invulnerable and hidden but a visual on that hero will apear when he''s on it. It will die when his host dies and he wont be able to eject from his host when it has taken damage for the last 3 seconds.

[E02K]

/\hard to code

[R.B.Economy]

Damage by degree of angle turned.
Stun by melee contact.
Illusion mimicks spells casted simultaneously.
Regen adds bonus damage.
Killed unit is reanimated under control.
Teleport to corpses.
Damage based on number of buffs/debuffs.
Stealing good buffs/transferring debuffs.

[Fate Trap]

Originally Posted by R.B.Economy

Damage by degree of angle turned.
Stun by melee contact.
Illusion mimicks spells casted simultaneously.

Awe-some.

[E02K]

JJE Y U NO ADD SHAKU?

[JJE92]

I HAZ MY NU LAPTOP!1!!!11!!!





OT:

Originally Posted by NoThlnG

Oh, and about merging, I actually had a suggestion where you merge with your "own" units that I got idea from WC3's Hippogryph Rider (link if you want to know though it was kinda meh suggestion)

And for Sapphiron, his main concept is not simply slowing enemies, but utilize the slow to damage enemies via 3rd skill (which is the core skill that defines his gameplay)

Merging: Well, it's interesting in general, but in a raw version like this, it's more of a self buff that uses a summon, but not really a unique gameplay per se, it needs something more to create a unique concept.

Sapphiron: Actually I could repeat what I just said about merging. It's definitely a cool idea, but you usually deal more damage to slowed people, because you're able to attack them more often. This idea doesn't lead to a unique gameplay by itself.




__________________________________________________ ___

Originally Posted by patrishosho

Is codability A must?? cuz dota2 is coming anyways..

I guess it isn't as much of a must as it was previously, but it shouldn't be something outrageous.





__________________________________________________ ___

Originally Posted by HΞADSHΘΓ

Healing/Support
============
Transfer HP/Mana to allies + while moving[old TB skill]. When used on foe, slows them down by -X MS% for every missing X% of max mana/hp.

I'm planning to add a concept where a hero transfers stats from enemies to himself and from himself to allies. It's a bit different than this, but I beleive it hits the concept of transferring HP/MP to allies.






__________________________________________________ ___

Originally Posted by SHTO

For:
-Chaser
-Old Hero
-Contains an Old Hero's Skill ( old spectre's 2nd skill, haunt as ultimate)
http://www.playdota.com/forums/481911/sent-agirider/

I'm not sure which unique concept I can put thus under.







__________________________________________________ ___

Originally Posted by patrishosho

How about a hero based on soul linker from Ragnarok online. Which can can merge with other heroes (not wisp) and buff them.
this hero will be like a living aghanim's scepter..
The hero is basically useless unless merged with other heroes.
each hero will be buffed differently (unlike wisp) When merged,
the hero will be invulnerable and hidden but a visual on that hero will apear when he''s on it. It will die when his host dies and he wont be able to eject from his host when it has taken damage for the last 3 seconds.

Imho, this is a workout idea of the merging concept which is just less viable for DotA. I don't beleive that there will ever be a hero that is useless unless merged, simply because it would be a relatively bland and boring hero, not really challenging and way too one-sided.








__________________________________________________ ___

Originally Posted by R.B.Economy

1- Damage by degree of angle turned.
2- Stun by melee contact.
3- Illusion mimicks spells casted simultaneously.
4- Regen adds bonus damage.
5- Killed unit is reanimated under control.
6- Teleport to corpses.
7- Damage based on number of buffs/debuffs.
8- Stealing good buffs/transferring debuffs.

1- Could be added to turning, do you have any workout example for this?
2 and 4- I've already added our Timothy Knightingale to my list ^^
3- The general similarity towards multicast (although the activation depends on illusions not on chance) could be problematic.
5- Depends on the unit. If it's allied heroes, then I've added this already into my list. If it's creeps, it depends. In terms of gameplay, it could become very similar to Broodmother's Spiderlings. If properly worked out, it could also become a pretty unique pushing skill, though. If it resurrects enemy units under your control, it might be overpowered conceptually.
6- Hard to say. The idea is interesting in general, but I'm not sure how this could lead to a new way of playing dota. Besides it could be relatively hard to balance.
7 and 8- By itself, 7 wouldn't necessarily result in a unique gameplay, because there are already some concepts in dota that resolve around debuffing the enemy and then dealing damage (specifically Batrider), but in conjunction with 8 it could work out. Definitely added 8 to my list, perhaps I'll try to combine them somehow.

[E02K]

@/\
Chaserz
DAT IZ DA BESTZ!