Sange: The New Vanguard?

[LiquidNitrogen]

the ehp boost of damage block is so underrated...

If you're getting money and building mid-price items mostly sange can be better but vanguard is still the way to go a lot of the time.

[fireblaze762]

This is old..

But anyway, the advantages of vanguard is basically that although it provides less hp, even on ranged heroes, it gives adequate protection towards creeps, which actually hurt a fair bit.

If you arne't scared of creeps though, you can buy sange on those range supports / semi carries (cm, bat, vs) as it makes their attacks more 'useful' (as in they still do piss weak damage later on, but they will now occasionally deal a slow)

On carries, definitely not imo. The regen is too useful, and most good carries are meele atm, meaning the damage block makes them really hard to kill.

[Pwntlolz]

Originally Posted by cairnebloodhoof

you got to be kidding me.
what items?
seriously, what items? what item that gives survivability and 6 regen at the same time? what? hood?
10 dmg and 15% slow better than regen and block? trolling I suspect, you need to be reported

turn my argument around lol.

why is regen so special to you, after laning phase the regen gets pretty useless since you either die or you live and then you farm creeps which cant really "harass" you

15% slow is fucking useful, if you think its useless then you deserve to be shot
monsterlord is right

[hakkoda_18]

You only get Vanguard if you also need the regeneration, if you just needed a hp boost, vitality booster is the way to go, not Sange.

LIKE!!!!!!!!!

[Royal_Naga]

On melee carrys that lack regen and need to stay in lane you buy vandguard, like people say before these are Magina, Spectre, Bristleback, Doom, Nessaj, etc.

Some other melee carrys are different
Naix for example have good survivality and might not need vandguard in most cases, but early sange is equally useful so it might depend on the lane and the enemy lineup.
Alchemist: He does have the regen, but that's up to level 6, so, you need first some extra EHP.

In the other and most range carrys that need to increase their HP will get Sange with some exceptions.
For example Bone Fletcher who needs to finish orchid and if he need survivality he will buy BKB or a big item like Skadi and/or Terrasque, is hard to see him walking around with a Sange after his core unless he is in a situation were is getting hard to farm.

[SugaSutA]

Originally Posted by .Budi

What. Do you know what carry means? How does Akasha/Weaver/Morphling/Mirana/Nevermore/Viper/etc have no lane presence?

Let's see, weaver needs the regen, akasha doesn't need either vg/sange(for fuck lol), mirana might go for sny and no need for vanguard, SF isnt a fucking carry, and... Viper needs the regen much more than the maim. Regen not for only staying in lane, but basically ganking and running around for longer periods of time.

Sange can't replace Vanguard in any way; they are 2 different items completely.

[ALL_CAPS_GUY]

NO, STFU.
SANGE IS FOR OFFENSIVE PURPOSES.
VANGUARD IS FOR DEFENSIVE.

[R.B.Economy]

Sange if you're STR, alchemist, NS...

[Bruno167]

Originally Posted by RaidenStorms

Obviously Magina with Sange is the way to go. Only noobs rush Vanguard on him.

noobs rush Vlads on him. Every game.

VG lets you trade hits, tower dive... etc.

[plzonlygame]

id rather towerdive with confidence than have a lottery slow

[Floryda]

Originally Posted by R.B.Economy

Sange if you're STR, alchemist, NS...

Sange is debatable on both heroes

[fireblaze762]

Originally Posted by sugasuta

Let's see, weaver needs the regen, akasha doesn't need either vg/sange(for fuck lol), mirana might go for sny and no need for vanguard, SF isnt a fucking carry, and... Viper needs the regen much more than the maim. Regen not for only staying in lane, but basically ganking and running around for longer periods of time.

Sange can't replace Vanguard in any way; they are 2 different items completely.

QoP works well with vanguard actually.

SF with vanguard or sange works pretty decently.

[Juice]

Comparing sange to vang in an average 10 sec teamfight where you receive 6-7 hero hits:

Sange - 304 hp
Vanguard - 275 hp + 60 regen + 4 or 5 hits blocked (avg 180 damage or 90 on ranged) = 425 or 515 hp value

[LiquidNitrogen]

Originally Posted by Pwntlolz

why is regen so special to you, after laning phase the regen gets pretty useless since you either die or you live and then you farm creeps which cant really "harass" you

15% slow is fucking useful, if you think its useless then you deserve to be shot
monsterlord is right

thats bullshit. are you one of those people go die, fountain and die again?

If not, you need regen.

Regen and damage block are easily two of the most underrated stats in the game, while raw HP is extremely overhyped.

[Star_Saber]

I think Sange is good enough to be core for DK ever since maim was changed into a non-orb, non-buff placer.

Basically, with DK you can go Sange by default, or Vang instead if extra tankiness is required. Both are equally valid.

in fact, I dare to say S&Y is among the top 10 best Dota items ever since it's not an orb (doesn't mean you should get Sange in every hero though).

[LiquidNitrogen]

With DK, of course. I usually get midas on him so basically I end up without enough slots to really use vanguard well.

[Pwntlolz]

Originally Posted by LiquidNitrogen

thats bullshit. are you one of those people go die, fountain and die again?

If not, you need regen.

Regen and damage block are easily two of the most underrated stats in the game, while raw HP is extremely overhyped.

Right, because after a teamfight you desperately need that 5 hp regen
Raw hp can save your life whereas regen really cant
A Ring of health MIGHT provide 50 hp in the course of a teamfight, so gamebreaking

[CelestialRice]

Everyone who gets a vanguard on a ranged hero should shoot themselves. Name one hero you get it on and I can give you a better alternative for a close price.

[RaidenStorms]

For Magnia, why not make Poor Man's Shield to ignore harassment from auttoattacking enemy support with low base damage early in the game and then make a Sange which will give a chasing possiblity?
For Dragon Knight, why would you even want to buy a Vanguard on him? You have regeneration from Dragon Blood and with Sange you can do so much more since it's a non-orb effect so S&Y/Helm>Satanic build works quite nicely.
Edit: I'm not saying it's bad, I just think people lack improvisation and are locked down in most popular builds. PMS (which is really easy to farm)+Sange can work just as well on Magina as a single Vanguard...

[Floryda]

Originally Posted by RaidenStorms

For Magnia, why not make Poor Man's Shield to ignore harassment from auttoattacking enemy support with low base damage early in the game and then make a Sange which will give a chasing possiblity?

Because it doesn't give hp regen

. PMS (which is really easy to farm)+Sange can work just as well on Magina as a single Vanguard...

no it can't, because that build lacks regen

and it's almost 500 gold more expensive