[Tweak] Buyback Restriction

[SwedishChef]

Why is this here?

Originally Posted by CvP

sure.

What is wrong with the current buyback system?

A well farmed player can start join a fight kill of one or two players and then INSTANTLY buyback again. With heroes like specter that almost means a free aegis.

One could argue that "If a hero manages to farm so much gold so he is able to buyback he deserves it and thereby the other team deserves to loose". Yes that is mostly correct but it is much more entertaining to watch a player invest those money in items instead or maybe try to end the game earlier by not farming up buyback gold as a part of the strategy.

HoN have restricted this by limiting buybacks to two only. This in my opinion is horrible since it will prohibit players from buying back earlier in the game which will lead to less ganks and movement on the map.

Suggstion

Players have 2 free buybacks where no cooldown is added if used. After those two are used further buybacks will result in an additional cooldown that activates when your hero dies. This extra cd is only added after the 20 minute mark (check the table below for exact values). The main goal with this is to punish extreme turtling.

Time of Death (minute)	Rebuy CD Added (seconds)
0<20	0
20<29	1
30<39	2
40>	3

Example:

Player dies and buybacks at 2 min and at 12 min. The player has used up its two free buybacks. He now buybacks again at 18 min no cooldown is added no either since it has passed less than 20 min.

Player dies buybacks again at 24 min and will have 1 seconds added to his rebuy cooldown. If he dies again he will have to wait 1 seconds before he can buyback.

Player dies again at 54 min, first he has to wait 1 seconds before the Rebuy Icon will be available for him to click on.

Now if he decides to rebuy again another 3 seconds will be added to his buyback cooldown so that he has to wait a total of 7 seconds between his death and before the rebuy-icon is avaialable to click on.

Feel free to T-up/down with a comment!

As always remember that numbers in the suggestion is just numbers and can be tweaked.

[Shadowlurker]

Suggestion to restrict how quickly after a player have died he can buyback again. This isn't the same as the cooldown on buyback. It is the time you have to wait after you died until you can buyback.

Suggestion to restrict how quickly after a player have died he can buyback again. This isn't the same as the cooldown on buyback. It is the time you have to wait after you died until you can buyback.

Suggestion to restrict how quickly after a player have died he can buyback again. This isn't the same as the cooldown on buyback. It is the time you have to wait after you died until you can buyback.

No matter how many times I repeat it, ..

[Floryda]

current buyback system is perfect imo.

however there should be a casual/public/non-competitive mode where theres no cd on buyback.

[SlamBam]

T-down.

[Razer.Cyberias]

Originally Posted by Shadowlurker

No matter how many times I repeat it, ..

My chinese brain is hurting too

[menage0a0trois]

This IMO is a bad suggestion as it penalizes early buybacks. We WANT those early, decisive, strategical buybacks. What we want to control is LATE game buy backs.

[SwedishChef]

Originally Posted by Shadowlurker

No matter how many times I repeat it, ..

Well this is different than the current 2 min buyback cooldown. This is a cooldown from when the player died to when he can click his "respawn" button again. This is for every time that he dies.

Is it more clear now?

[SECXIIKILLA]

What about put a cd on buybacks that are made in 0-25 min mark and remove cd 26-infinity minutes?

[SwedishChef]

Originally Posted by menage0a0trois

This IMO is a bad suggestion as it penalizes early buybacks. We WANT those early, decisive, strategical buybacks. What we want to control is LATE game buy backs.

This wont penalize the early buyback since it will only add 1 second for every buyback the first 5 min. So if you buyback once in the first 5 min 1 second is added. Remember that the numbers are only there to give you an idea.

The added counter could be added only after 20 min. That way there is no penalty for buying back early but more for doing so late-game.

[SwedishChef]

Originally Posted by SwedishChef

This wont penalize the early buyback since it will only add 1 second for every buyback the first 5 min. So if you buyback once in the first 5 min 1 second is added. Remember that the numbers are only there to give you an idea.

The added counter could be added only after 20 min. That way there is no penalty for buying back early but more for doing so late-game.

Edit: Also just writing t-down will be ignored since you can't state a reason that you don't like the change. Please try to discuss the issue that you have with the suggestion rather that writing t-down.

[GodlyKha]

My problem is being that buyback and death time or counter is being punish meepo heo more than any other. Meepo is being level up faster than is other hero but is balance for this by is having weaker skills and stat. But is spending twice as long dead as is other hero and buyback nerf is hurting hard

[Elitro]

I prefer HoN's system, i feel it's completely innapropriate seeing a match lasting longer so that specter can farm jungle BB money so she can suicide at a teamfight to deal some dmg then doing BB and jump right in. This happened countless times at one of the first Dota2 games of the international, the game took like 1h30 mins because people are too afraid to commit to a teamfight so they farm indefinately so that everyone can have BB money... instead limiting the number of BB makes it more tactical than just time consuming.

[SwedishChef]

Originally Posted by GodlyKha

My problem is being that buyback and death time or counter is being punish meepo heo more than any other. Meepo is being level up faster than is other hero but is balance for this by is having weaker skills and stat. But is spending twice as long dead as is other hero and buyback nerf is hurting hard

He is beeing punished harder since he levels up faster and thereby is a harder hero to kill than what he would be at an lower level. Buybacks shouldn't be part of a heroes strategy imo. A good meepo player knows that it is crucial to stay alive in the fights (like most other heroes).

Also I updated my main post guys based on your feedback and some extra thoughs I had.

Originally Posted by Elitro

I prefer HoN's system, i feel it's completely innapropriate seeing a match lasting longer so that specter can farm jungle BB money so she can suicide at a teamfight to deal some dmg then doing BB and jump right in. This happened countless times at one of the first Dota2 games of the international, the game took like 1h30 mins because people are too afraid to commit to a teamfight so they farm indefinately so that everyone can have BB money... instead limiting the number of BB makes it more tactical than just time consuming.

This is exactly what the suggestion is aimed at fixing. With this extra cooldown between from the death to when the buyback icon is available you can no longer instant buyback and take part of the team fight. The fight will basically be over if you have bought back more than once in late game.

[Wwallace_]

no cd is ridiculos, maybe reducing the cd by a mode or a random cd everytime you use BB

[ALL_CAPS_GUY]

INVESTIGATE THOSE MONEY

[Churrass]

remove buyback when spectre is in the game

[SwedishChef]

Originally Posted by ALL_CAPS_GUY

I didn't write that. Pic or it didn't happen.

[Mizure]

mby op talking about add an additional rebuy cd, that activate when a hero die.
like (random number) 10 sec.

after this 10 sec after death, he can rebuy, or he need to wait for the normal cooldown of rebuy, 2 min, or whatever time is left.

so the hero wont be able to join a fight immediately.


hm dont know about that. but i hate changing things.

[SwedishChef]

Originally Posted by Mizure

mby op talking about add an additional rebuy cd, that activate when a hero die.
like (random number) 10 sec.

after this 10 sec after death, he can rebuy, or he need to wait for the normal cooldown of rebuy, 2 min, or whatever time is left.

so the hero wont be able to join a fight immediately.


hm dont know about that. but i hate changing things.

Yes that is exactly how I mean. Will update the OP tomorrow to clarify it some more. Going to sleep now.

[ALL_CAPS_GUY]

Originally Posted by SwedishChef

I didn't write that. Pic or it didn't happen.