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Old 10-15-2011, 01:43 AM   #1
Klagger
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Default [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis


Hero Suggestion

Tang Lang

Praying Mantis

Version 1.2
Foreword

This time i want to create something unique skill which is challenging toward engine of war3.A skill which able to use twice within short duration before the skill going to cooldown.A skill which enable hero to craw on a tree.


Background Story

-


Hero Introduction

-


Hero Model & Statistics



Model : Mantis (Green). (Looking for new hero icon and spell icons) Suggestions are welcome.
Theme : A predator that slowly moving toward the prey , grabbing the prey and bite it with extremespeed.

Strength Agility Intelligence

18 + 2 22 + 2.2 16 + 1.5


Role : Carry,killer

Affiliation:Neutral
Damage: 50-62
Attack Range: 128 (melee)
Armor: 1.6
Movespeed: 300
Attack Animation: 0.4 / 0.5
Casting Animation: 0.2 / 0.51
Base Attack Time: 1.6
Missile Speed: Instant
Sight Range: 1800 at Day / 1200 at Night




Skills and Abilities

Learns Praying Stance,Scissor Dash,Nature vaultPredator.


Skill 1 : Praying Stance



Ability Type : Active
Ability Hotkey : E
Targetting Type : Instant

Mana Cost : 80

Mantis put himself in "prayer-like" stance, disable him to attack.Catch his prey from 160 distance for a long duration upon striking.Grant subskill,Extremespeed bite.

Level 1 : Grab for 2.0 seconds.
Level 2 : Grab for 2.5 seconds.
Level 3 : Grab for 3.0 seconds.
Level 4 : Grab for 3.5 seconds.

Cooldown : 12 seconds

Subskill : Extremespeed Bite


Ability Type : Passive
Ability Hotkey : B
Targetting Type : N/A

Mana Cost : N/A

Once mantis grab a prey, he stop slashing prey with his pair of scissor but continue to biting the prey.The speed of biting is depend on mantis' attack speed.
Level 1 : Deal 20 base damage.Lower Mantis BAT to 0.9.
Level 2 : Deal 30 base damage.Lower Mantis BAT to 0.8.
Level 3 : Deal 40 base damage.Lower Mantis BAT to 0.7.
Level 4 : Deal 50 base damage.Lower Mantis BAT to 0.6.

Cooldown : N/A


Explanation :

In real life, mantis will catch his prey using his spike foreleg and continuous biting the prey until the prey died and devour the prey completely.So this skill is usually the same , catch a prey and biting the prey.To make it more interesting , this hero has two type of attack : one is normal attack and another one is bite.Normal attack does the same as he attack the unit.But the bite is different, it has its own attack damage and lower BAT which deal more damage to prey if mantis has high attack speed and attack damage.

Notes :
  • While in praying stance , mantis will not automatically attack unit.The first targeted enemy from player himself, mantis will catch it from 160 distance away or more nearer.
  • While grabbing a prey,both of them is immobile.
  • Mantis still able to use skill while in praying stance and while biting.
  • Mantis turn rate is reduced by 80% while biting.
  • The cooldown of this skill is start count only after mantis strike a prey.




Skill 2 :Scissor Dash



Ability Type : Instant
Ability Hotkey : R
Targetting Type : Instant

Mana Cost : 80 mana

Mantis widely open his scissor blade and dashes 300 distances forward, damaging enemies caught in his path. As long as he impacts an enemy, he may perform a second dash within a 2 second window.

Level 1 : Deal (30 damage + attack damage) per dash.
Level 2 : Deal (40 damage + attack damage) per dash.
Level 3 : Deal (50 damage + attack damage) per dash.
Level 4 : Deal (60 damage + attack damage) per dash.

Cooldown : 12s/11/s10s/9s


Notes :
  • Only based on base attack damage and that given by the primary attribute of Mantis. Raw bonus damage is not count.





Skill 3 : Nature Vault



Ability Type : Active
Ability Hotkey : R
Targetting Type : Instant

Mana Cost : 90 mana

Mantis vault over a unit, jumping 280 distance in front of the unit while knocking the unit backwards by 200 distance.Upon landing, dealing X-scissor shape area damage. Mantis able to have a free vault on a unit again after 2 seconds casting "Nature Vault".If there are no enemies nearby to vault , Mantis will vault on his prey instead, and apply all vault enemy effect to the prey.
Click image for larger version

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Level 1 : Vaulted and upon landing will deal 120 damage and slow for 20%.
Level 2 : Vaulted and upon landing will deal 150 damage and slow for 40%.
Level 3 : Vaulted and upon landing will deal 180 damage and slow for 60%.
Level 4 : Vaulted and upon landing will deal 210 damage and slow for 80%.

Cooldown : 18s/16s/14s/12s


Notes :
  • When jumping , mantis able to dodge certain projectile that coming toward him.
  • Damage type is physical.




Ultimate : Predator



Ability Type : Active
Ability Hotkey : F
Targetting Type : Tree

Mantis born to become a predator with a high concealment skill.He able to conceal himself on the tree.The tree support mantis to catch his prey from a more longer distance.And able him to catch the prey without noticeable by prey's allied.Once his catch a prey,the crawled tree was cut into smaller piece which cause the prey lose his allied sight from all prey's allied unit.Crawl up on a tree with 2seconds.

Level 1 : Able Prayer stance to catch enemy from 220distance away or below.
Level 2 : Able Prayer stance to catch enemy from 240distance away or below.And able to walk on another tree every 1.0seconds.
Level 3 : Able Prayer stance to catch enemy from 260distance away or below.And able to walk on another tree every 0.5seconds.Boost 150% attack speed when caught a prey for 3.5 seconds.

Cooldown : 60s

Notes :
  • The tree will shake if mantis crawling up the tree.
  • The prey that being caught will not giving any allied vision toward his allied unit.
  • Destroy the tree on the area of 300 once mantis successfully caught a prey or duration ended.
  • Last for 30second.
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Last edited by Klagger; 11-07-2011 at 12:19 PM. Reason: Update to version 1.2
Old 10-15-2011, 02:03 AM   #2
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Default Re: The master mantis

second skill is too much rip-off from BB
third strange name to skill that reduces regen with each hit - too much effects in one skill - forced synergy
wtf is ultimate? 300/500/700 aoe call with assault/stygian/medallion plus overgrowth?

Are you serious? Mantis?
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: The master mantis

Ok, I'm thinking this idea is very imba. On defense order, the master mantis can no longer be damaged from the side or back? So running is 100% effective as an escape mecahnism suddenly? That needs to change. I realize it has 2 seconds where it won't bein effect, but ultimately I still don't like it as a passive.

Face to face steals hp regen AND increases attack speed? Again, way too powerful for a normal spell in my opinion, and has no real theme. The skills seem to just be mismatched and unoriginal all together...

Overall, I don't really see a good point to this suggestion... Sorry.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:36 AM   #4
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Default Re: The master mantis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wwallace_ View Post
second skill is too much rip-off from BB
third strange name to skill that reduces regen with each hit - too much effects in one skill - forced synergy
wtf is ultimate? 300/500/700 aoe call with assault/stygian/medallion plus overgrowth?

Are you serious? Mantis?
First of all, this suggestion still in construction, so dont too care about the numbers...About the second skill, i dont think it too much same as BB..it prevent all damage source not reducing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamEvil View Post
Ok, I'm thinking this idea is very imba. On defense order, the master mantis can no longer be damaged from the side or back? So running is 100% effective as an escape mecahnism suddenly? That needs to change. I realize it has 2 seconds where it won't bein effect, but ultimately I still don't like it as a passive.

Care about on the concept itself 1st...the number will be adjusted later...^^

Face to face steals hp regen AND increases attack speed? Again, way too powerful for a normal spell in my opinion, and has no real theme. The skills seem to just be mismatched and unoriginal all together...

Overall, I don't really see a good point to this suggestion... Sorry.
It still the 1st draft of suggestion...have much skill effect will be polish and rework...^^
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:21 AM   #5
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Default Re: The master mantis

Okay, lets go down the list then, shall we?

X-Scissor - This skill as I understand it, blinks you to behind the target and does damage to target and gives you a bonus to your damage as you attack it. Rikimaru does the same thing with Blink Strike except he stays in front of the target. Not very original. Also, does the increase damage to enemies affect the 100 damage per attack? If so, you're adding quite a bit, though it's numbers.

Defensive Order - Ok, when you stand around you become invisible and then it ALSO gives IMMUNITY from DAMAGE unless the person is directly in front of the hero. Take out the transparency/invisibility all together, it makes NO sense with the skill. Also, NERF THE SKILL. Maybe it does reduction, but then, as said before, it is a rip off of Bristleback. But IMMUNITY is IMBA. And if you just leave it as invisibility, then you're also same as Rikimaru's Permanent Invisibility.

Face to Face - This one is original. I don't understand why you are stealing hp regen though. The increased attack speed is fine, but the hp regen seems out there. And, this skill is easily countered. The enemy turns away. This is the one skill that I can go with, just give him a reason to be draining the regen in a story arc somewhere.

Focus Sight - This is so convoluted I'm confused as to where to start. Let's distill it. You loose sight range, but any enemy within your sight range becomes immobilized and unable to turn away from you and looses their armor. Ok, IMBA with the armor reduction to 0, but thats numbers. It lasts 5 seconds at the highest level. Seems short. It just seems like Beserker's Call on Axe. All enemies in the AoE focus on you. You add in immobilization and the decrease in armor. Not really original, and frankly weird. If you want them to focus on you, why root them in place?

Overall, I don't understand what role you are trying to go for with this hero. It seems like you want him to do everything and be some uber hero. And the skills are largely unoriginal. It's not a number's issue, it is a creative and focus issue. You need to figure out exactly what you want this hero to be good at and where it's weaknesses will lie and then build skills based on that. This is all simply my opinion, maybe someone else sees something different. Personally, I'd start over with the hero.
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Old 10-15-2011, 04:06 AM   #6
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Default Re: The master mantis

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamEvil View Post
Okay, lets go down the list then, shall we?

X-Scissor - This skill as I understand it, blinks you to behind the target and does damage to target and gives you a bonus to your damage as you attack it. Rikimaru does the same thing with Blink Strike except he stays in front of the target. Not very original. Also, does the increase damage to enemies affect the 100 damage per attack? If so, you're adding quite a bit, though it's numbers.

Not blink...it is instant cast spell which slash the area with his scissors...each scissor deal certain damage.While jumping he may dodge some projectile...I dont think it is same as Rikimaru.

Defensive Order - Ok, when you stand around you become invisible and then it ALSO gives IMMUNITY from DAMAGE unless the person is directly in front of the hero. Take out the transparency/invisibility all together, it makes NO sense with the skill. Also, NERF THE SKILL. Maybe it does reduction, but then, as said before, it is a rip off of Bristleback. But IMMUNITY is IMBA. And if you just leave it as invisibility, then you're also same as Rikimaru's Permanent Invisibility.

Invisibility?? i didnt say any invisibility effect on this skill...the transparency is the effect , not invisibility.And the second part effect will take effect when mantis get damage while transparency,which protect from being receive any damage from side and back part.

Face to Face - This one is original. I don't understand why you are stealing hp regen though. The increased attack speed is fine, but the hp regen seems out there. And, this skill is easily countered. The enemy turns away. This is the one skill that I can go with, just give him a reason to be draining the regen in a story arc somewhere.

This is the skill is will rework on it.
Focus Sight - This is so convoluted I'm confused as to where to start. Let's distill it. You loose sight range, but any enemy within your sight range becomes immobilized and unable to turn away from you and looses their armor. Ok, IMBA with the armor reduction to 0, but thats numbers. It lasts 5 seconds at the highest level. Seems short. It just seems like Beserker's Call on Axe. All enemies in the AoE focus on you. You add in immobilization and the decrease in armor. Not really original, and frankly weird. If you want them to focus on you, why root them in place?
This is the skill is will rework on it.

Overall, I don't understand what role you are trying to go for with this hero. It seems like you want him to do everything and be some uber hero. And the skills are largely unoriginal. It's not a number's issue, it is a creative and focus issue. You need to figure out exactly what you want this hero to be good at and where it's weaknesses will lie and then build skills based on that. This is all simply my opinion, maybe someone else sees something different. Personally, I'd start over with the hero.

Thx for your suggestion...^^
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: The master mantis

Someone can review this??
All skills is reworked ..^^
But ulti is still havent finish yet...^^
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: The master mantis

X-Scissor - I like the remake. You said it's not a blink, so what happens is you hero jumps straight up and down? If he moves forward or backward it's a blink/leap skill. I like it as it is now, makes sense.

Leaf Coat - I like this better that the last one. As far as the transparency goes, Mortred does that with her blur and it's a constant 80% at all levels, and only activated when a visible enemy hero is within 1600 AoE. Hers does dodge after that and yours damage reduction, so it works. A suggestion would be that maybe you use the wings on the model and say that every X seconds a hit causes him to launch himself off the ground, and an automatic miss for the enemy. It's still damage reduction, but in a different way, and doesn't have the hero trying to do two things at once. *shrug* no real change either way to the skill, so it's all aesthetics.

Scissor Blade - This is a variation on Ursa Warrior's Fury Swipes. It does permanent health loss until the enemies death instead of just extra damage. I don't know if thats original enough, it is different and doesn't seem over powered, and synergizes well with your other skills. For now, I have no real complaints with it.

Internal Wound - Basically a double damage spell, but one that you can call in the second hit whenever. I really like the idea of this. As long as it has no animation, the enemy hero wouldn't know when you casted it, which means he'd never know if it was safe to run, of if you'd just call in you Natural Harvest and kill him off. I would even like to see it include increased damage or increased attack speed if the enemy is lower on life. That way waiting to cast this would net more damage to rebound. It would add strategy to the hero.

The remake is alot stronger than the original. Good Job.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: The master mantis

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamEvil View Post
X-Scissor - I like the remake. You said it's not a blink, so what happens is you hero jumps straight up and down? If he moves forward or backward it's a blink/leap skill. I like it as it is now, makes sense.

Thx for liking it.I prefer leap "word" though...xD...

Leaf Coat - I like this better that the last one. As far as the transparency goes, Mortred does that with her blur and it's a constant 80% at all levels, and only activated when a visible enemy hero is within 1600 AoE. Hers does dodge after that and yours damage reduction, so it works. A suggestion would be that maybe you use the wings on the model and say that every X seconds a hit causes him to launch himself off the ground, and an automatic miss for the enemy. It's still damage reduction, but in a different way, and doesn't have the hero trying to do two things at once. *shrug* no real change either way to the skill, so it's all aesthetics.

Thx for the suggestion...further re-polishing will make after a few days...^^

Scissor Blade - This is a variation on Ursa Warrior's Fury Swipes. It does permanent health loss until the enemies death instead of just extra damage. I don't know if thats original enough, it is different and doesn't seem over powered, and synergizes well with your other skills. For now, I have no real complaints with it.

Ya...i kinda lot alike , but actually it didnt...this is a dps skill which the damage dealt is in hp removal...while ursa fury swipes is adding extra damage for a short duration if the target is same.

Internal Wound - Basically a double damage spell, but one that you can call in the second hit whenever. I really like the idea of this. As long as it has no animation, the enemy hero wouldn't know when you casted it, which means he'd never know if it was safe to run, of if you'd just call in you Natural Harvest and kill him off. I would even like to see it include increased damage or increased attack speed if the enemy is lower on life. That way waiting to cast this would net more damage to rebound. It would add strategy to the hero.

Thx for the suggestion again....i will re-polish some of the skill after a few days...^^
The remake is alot stronger than the original. Good Job.
Thx ^^ Reply in green
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Mantis


UPDATE::
  • Using simple template
  • Change and rework all those skill.
  • Some skill description is not good enough.So hoping member help me to polish it.
  • Skill icon and model icon are needed.
  • Some explaination will be added later.
  • Members can comment now.



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Old 10-16-2011, 09:03 AM   #11
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Another hero from klagger...

I like the first skill so much.It is very unique way to catch a prey.

Will review it soon after finished my work in real life.

And a free bump
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

^Thx...^^
Someone review this plz
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:12 AM   #13
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

1st skill is decent, but imba. about 3.5s disable with 8s cooldown and 80 manacost. see?
I'll review the rest later, but it seems promising
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

^ Thx...i will wait for your further suggestion...xD
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:06 AM   #15
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis


UPDATE::
  • Rework some skills effect
  • Some skill description is not good enough.So hoping member help me to polish it.
  • Skill icon and model icon are needed.
  • Some explaination will be added later.
  • Members can comment now.



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Old 10-17-2011, 11:26 AM   #16
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

So, as promised. I will start review your hero.
Stat: Is fine inho.

Abilities/Skills:

1) Praying stance
A very unique way to catch prey and bite with.I very like the bite concept which it change the way from normal attack to a new attack mechanism which totally will be awesome when in late game if only if he can farm enough.About the effect,could make it more interesting. Such as : the hp different between mantis and the prey.If the hp of mantis more than the prey than the duration will be increase by 0.1s(example) for each percentage different and vise versa.That will be nice too.

2)Camouflage
A nice skill which fit his theme and real life mantis.I saw animal planet before,said that mantis had remarkable speed and high skill of camouflage to catch his prey.So does this skill, giving the same function for catching a prey.I like the transparency effect.But i quite dont understand what the mean about the vision lost about the degree.Mind to explain it??

3)X-jump
A mantis which can jump.Less see mantis jump until now.But it is good also which the skill effect.Synergy is very good.Able to jump between tree.Totally awesome. A new and unique skill i think.The duration of 3.5 seconds, which this skill is able to spam.But the distance jump is totally too far if this cd is very low.Imagine mirana , she leap skill has 18s cd and it only leap 840distance. While yours able to leap 350 distance with 3.5s cd.So,14s you can leap 1400 distance!! Totally imba.Hope you can change it.

4)Predator
Mantis that hide in a tree?? Well , it fine since i saw some hide between rocks or grass.
And a new unique concept again , with hiding in the tree, which 3rd skill able you to jump between trees.

Overall, a unique hero and very solid idea which may be another most like hero suggestion. GL!!
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Quote:
Originally Posted by vhang123123 View Post
So, as promised. I will start review your hero.
Stat: Is fine inho.

Abilities/Skills:

1) Praying stance
A very unique way to catch prey and bite with.I very like the bite concept which it change the way from normal attack to a new attack mechanism which totally will be awesome when in late game if only if he can farm enough.About the effect,could make it more interesting. Such as : the hp different between mantis and the prey.If the hp of mantis more than the prey than the duration will be increase by 0.1s(example) for each percentage different and vise versa.That will be nice too.


I try to create some unique way which might give surprise for other members...and hope it can attract more ppl to comment...xD
Thx anyway, for the suggestion..i very like that ways...will update in next version...^^


2)Camouflage
A nice skill which fit his theme and real life mantis.I saw animal planet before,said that mantis had remarkable speed and high skill of camouflage to catch his prey.So does this skill, giving the same function for catching a prey.I like the transparency effect.But i quite dont understand what the mean about the vision lost about the degree.Mind to explain it??

About the degree vision block, i will add picture later ...^^

3)X-jump
A mantis which can jump.Less see mantis jump until now.But it is good also which the skill effect.Synergy is very good.Able to jump between tree.Totally awesome. A new and unique skill i think.The duration of 3.5 seconds, which this skill is able to spam.But the distance jump is totally too far if this cd is very low.Imagine mirana , she leap skill has 18s cd and it only leap 840distance. While yours able to leap 350 distance with 3.5s cd.So,14s you can leap 1400 distance!! Totally imba.Hope you can change it.

Hmm...really...didnt notice it before...thx for your suggestion also...^^

4)Predator
Mantis that hide in a tree?? Well , it fine since i saw some hide between rocks or grass.
And a new unique concept again , with hiding in the tree, which 3rd skill able you to jump between trees.

Thx for liking...May will update some skill effect in next version...^^

Overall, a unique hero and very solid idea which may be another most like hero suggestion. GL!!
Hope ^^
Anyways, thx for your suggestion...
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Umm I kind of don't understand this...
Crawling up on a tree already makes you kind of invisible so why do you want to camouflage? And you can jump from one tree to another which is really good and because of this you don't need anymore stealth spells...First skill is pretty good altough I don't understand it fully...
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:24 PM   #19
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

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Originally Posted by Flame13 View Post
Umm I kind of don't understand this...
Crawling up on a tree already makes you kind of invisible so why do you want to camouflage? And you can jump from one tree to another which is really good and because of this you don't need anymore stealth spells...First skill is pretty good altough I don't understand it fully...
First skill:
Cast it.Mantis will stop attacking unit automatically to prevent he strike the enemy creeps randomly.Now, mantis can grab his prey from only 200 distance away or below...Grab=attack command on a targeted unit.When mantis grabbing a prey, now he will stop using his scissor instead he bite the prey quickly.So, the bite is another attack mechansim(give 2 attack type such as pugna which had 2 type of attack) which deal the damage which i stated above.And had lower BAT.While he can attack his prey more faster which is depending on mantis attack speed himself.

Ultimate:Crawling to the tree didnt give him invisibility.Enemy still able to see him. Thus he able to receive spell or damage from any source.To prevent this skill abuse by player(he must cast it on the tree which in the range of 50).Animation:Should give mantis more easily noticeable when crawled on tree, to prevent OP)

2nd skill:Able to give him transparency which able to help his weakness.But at the same time reduce his movement speed to low constant value.
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Since I want to help you, first of all I corrected the tooltip of the first skill.
PLEASE let me know if I misunderstood something, I will correct it.

Original Tooltip

Mantis put himself in "prayer-like" stance, disable him to attack.Catch his prey from a near distance for a long duration upon striking.If the victim has low hp,mantis can continuous grabbing the prey for more longer duration.The prey may have chances to release themself after 1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds grabbing if the hp of the prey is higher than mantis.Grant subskill,Extremespeed bite.


Corrected to:

The Mantis puts himself into a prayer stance disabling his auto-attack. However he can catch a near enemy unit - his prey - upon issuing an attack order. If the victim has low hp (comment: add % values and % progression if it's based on the LvL of the skill) the Mantis will continuously keep biting the prey for a longer duration. The prey has a chance to break free from the embrace of the Mantis after 1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds.
While the target is embraced the Mantis is granted the Extremespeed bite ability.

comment: I Don't get this last part about chances to break free, it has chance, it means a random % based chance to break free IF it's hp is higher( constant or % based??), but what happens if the chance happens, what if not, what if the hp is not higher, there are a lot of cases that are not defined at all, please define these.

I would rather help you to first make the interface of your hero clear and easy to understand, than start judging it without even understanding your proposed idea

Cheers!
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:17 PM   #21
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBorN View Post
Since I want to help you, first of all I corrected the tooltip of the first skill.
PLEASE let me know if I misunderstood something, I will correct it.

Original Tooltip

Mantis put himself in "prayer-like" stance, disable him to attack.Catch his prey from a near distance for a long duration upon striking.If the victim has low hp,mantis can continuous grabbing the prey for more longer duration.The prey may have chances to release themself after 1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds grabbing if the hp of the prey is higher than mantis.Grant subskill,Extremespeed bite.


Corrected to:

The Mantis puts himself into a prayer stance disabling his auto-attack. However he can catch a near enemy unit - his prey - upon issuing an attack order. If the victim has low hp (comment: add % values and % progression if it's based on the LvL of the skill) the Mantis will continuously keep biting the prey for a longer duration. The prey has a chance to break free from the embrace of the Mantis after 1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds.
While the target is embraced the Mantis is granted the Extremespeed bite ability.

Thx..really..thx...i finding someone who kind enough to polish me description...^^ Thx...

comment: I Don't get this last part about chances to break free, it has chance, it means a random % based chance to break free IF it's hp is higher( constant or % based??), but what happens if the chance happens, what if not, what if the hp is not higher, there are a lot of cases that are not defined at all, please define these.

If the hp of the prey has higher hp than mantis, than he might has chances to break free after 1/1.5/2.0/2.5s .
So stronger prey will able to break free if the chances happen. And the chances is triggered only every 0.5seconds after the 1/1.5/2/2.5seconds.


I would rather help you to first make the interface of your hero clear and easy to understand, than start judging it without even understanding your proposed idea

Cheers!
Really thx...Will update the version tmr ...^^
Hope get more polished description ^^
I had to sleep now...Will check this out tmr..
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:34 PM   #22
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Not sure if it is possible to code the sight thing but besides that I like it.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:12 AM   #23
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

thx for liking though...
someone else like to comment about??
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:42 AM   #24
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

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Originally Posted by Lama051 View Post
Not sure if it is possible to code the sight thing but besides that I like it.
make a vision blocker follow him?
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:55 PM   #25
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

^With degree effect?? So code-able??
I will update the hero on next version, so if that effect is uncodeable i will remove it though
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:27 PM   #26
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

There's definitely some pretty unique ideas here. I like the first skill, but I agree with Vot1_bear that the numbers need to be nerfed a bit. Second skill is interesting but I would want to change it so that the transparency effect doesn't scale but is always at 100%. Then you could change the other numbers to balance it out. I just think that I would not want to spend mana on this skill for 40% transparency.

Third skill is pretty interesting when you add the tree component to it, but I think you need to fix the cooldown numbers, because 3.5 seconds seems a bit imba. The ultimate is very unique but I'm not 100% sure how it will work..you can leave opponents stuck on the trees?? I guess I'm just having a hard time understanding what the skill is meant to do. As far as cosmetics, the model isn't my favorite but is obviously fitting to your hero. The first icon is great and the rest are pretty ugly.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

like it .
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:30 AM   #28
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

My review, as I promised.
Stat gains are ok, mayb make ms 315 and lower damage a little? 9/10
And please use tables for skills if u can, makes comparing scaling a whole lot easier.

Skill 1: So here, basically u grab ur enemy from a distance and hold on. SO I guess it's channeling? And extremespeed bite will come in handy more in late game, I presume. It's an ok skill. What is the cast range? It's all right. 6/10

Skill 2: The transparency thing seems kinda pointless, either remove it or make it 100% at all levels. Vision loss is cool, but mayb implement trees in here somehow? But I'm not sure it's fully codable. 6/10 again.

Skill 3: Basic damage/escape skill. Pretty bland, but synergy with praying stance is visible. Needs more balancing. 5/10

Ultimate: If codable, epic friggin awesome. Make him stay invisible longer though. If not codable, u could always make it something related to trees and having good syenrgy with camouflage. 8/10, good idea.

Total: 34/50, so t-nullish t-up. Keep working.
Oh, and a small request. If u get the time, could you review either one of these hero ideas? http://www.playdota.com/forums/54140...ame-construct/ OR http://www.playdota.com/forums/54505...runic-warrior/. Any one will do. Thnx in advance!
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:08 AM   #29
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Hmm..still havent update yet?
If you want me to review this again , PM me
Hope next version will be more better.

A suggestion about the ultimate skill and 2nd skill.
Try to connect them into one skill.Because crawling up on a tree might make you hard to noticeable.I know , you wanna add some animation to give him more noticeable, but why not just keep it the effect while adding the transparency to craw skill.This will be more nicer.About the vision block you may use it on other skill though.
But still, this is my suggestion.
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Old 10-21-2011, 02:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Praying Stance is interesting. You disable him and yourself for a few seconds, then attack with the biting, and if the enemy has or gets more hp than you, he may escape early. Not bad at all. I would suggest the hp be percentage so any hero has the chance to break free, and not just strength hero's or ones stacking strength items.

Camoflauge - I think this is pretty good. You could up the transparency to 100% at all levels since it is toggleable. So as long as you stay facing the enemy, he looses you on his minimap, you become transparent, and you loose movespeed but can still move/attack. I like it.

X-Jump - It's alright. Nothing glaringly bad, but it's a blinkstrike/leap with the added bonus of jumping trees if you were already in one.

Predator - This is a neat idea. Pop your hero into a tree, then wait for an enemy to come along so you can pounce on it. Definitely a good mid game gank initiator. I wonder if it's Ultimate worthy because by itself it doesn't really do a ton other than hide you. And it doesn't do that 100% either. Quelling blade + observant hero = you on the ground... I like the idea, just wonder if it's worth THIS slot...

Overall, keep working on it.
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Well. It is hard to review such heroes.

About camouflage.
There is no chance that players wouldn't notice fog of war moving in their direction. What is more, creating fog of war isn't so easy. Lanaya's Meld would fit to Mantis hero. You can always make wind walk -90/80/70/60%(?) ms with some interesting event on breaking invisibility.

First skill seems like uber complicated Shackle. Dunno how you want to check current AS of hero, but it surely fits very well to mantis theme.

I bet that real Mantis don't jump at all, but i can be wrong.

This hero seems like an attempt to bring some logic to DotA. :/ Focus more on utility in game.
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Thx for the review ...i might continue this hero until i find some interesting concept and skill effect...
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Old 10-22-2011, 01:26 AM   #33
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Okay, reviewing as promised (finally)
1st skill-
As said before, not-bad concept. But the disable IS imba and kinda complicated. the chance to break free (save 1s) is way too low, somewhat unneeded imo. You have 3 duration probabilities: break free (-1s), normal and increased (+1s). kinda unneeded tbh.
Simplify it and maybe nerf it. A disable that long is extremely imba. If you want to keep it, give the target a chance to escape like your ulti. E.g. if you receive damage, you'll release. Without it it's really imba, a dismember at level 7 with 12 cd and scaling damage (higher AS=pwnage with 0.6 bat).

2nd skill
Not bad, but 100% transparency is... well, idk. seems too much while the level 1 (40%) is totally useless.
Needs tweaking on numbers the most. make it scale really little (like 5-10% per level) to make it useful. Currently level 1/2/3 is useless since 40/60/80% transparency is nothing.

3rd skill, not bad imo. But scale cooldown. 20 cooldown at level 1 is pure shit. Overall i kinda like it, a spammable leap+damage. You might wanna edit the manacost though.

Ulti, doesn't really understand it and tbh hiding in trees countersynergies your jump+transparency combo which is mainly used to get close.
But one thing's for sure, the remove target's ally vision thing is superb. Really useful and original imo, gj.

Overall, not bad. But some skills are countersynergic while some others, well, has number problems
Let's see the suggestions:
-Simplify and nerf 1st skill disable. Imo remove the chance-to-break-free, 10% is barely useful. Nerf is needed imo, 4.5s potential disable plus scaling damage (based on your aspd) is imba.
-2nd skill, maybe add some minimap stuff? E.g.:
As long as nobody looks at you (You're in sight range), you're invisible on the minimap. If someone looks at you, you can be seen on minimap but their vision is blocked . This combos with your ulti. Enemies can't see you on minimap, and soon they won't see their friend either
-3rd skill, well, rescale. 20 cooldown at level one is crap. Keep the 3.5s cooldown at level 4 though. Make it scale smoother.
-Ulti, maybe re-think it?
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Old 10-22-2011, 01:57 AM   #34
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

^Thx for the review... and some good suggestion^^
I will remove his ultimate skill until i find some interesting skill effect...^^
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Old 10-22-2011, 02:56 PM   #35
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Hmmm... Tough hero to review....
1st Skill:
Like the idea. Just a question, if you use the skill then issue an attack command on an enemy hero out of your attack range, would you move towards him/her/it? Or would the skill bonuses be canceled? If it would be canceled, I recommend you make it targetable instead of getting rooted to the ground and wait for the enemy hero to come close enough for you to issue an attack command (which they would not do unless they are idiots or noobs).

2nd Skill:
By 100% transparency do you mean invisible? If that is the case then, as mentioned before, the first three levels are wasted. Perhaps a 60%/70%/80%/90% scaling? And change the effect to not visible on the minimap but still can be seen by heroes (but not creeps). Also, you could add a 'True Strike' effect for, say, 2 seconds if he breaks 'invisibility' since the skill description says 'Giving him transparency skill which enable him to catch his prey without missing' which implies, well, no missing. However, the degree thing is not codeable.
P.S. Mortred is 80% transparent when blurred.

3rd Skill:
Kind of like a (really short) Leap except with damage and is the damage pure or physical or magical? If it is magical the damage would be kind of pathetic since after magic resistance they deal 15/30/45/60 damage each slash. Likewise for physical except it varies from hero to hero. The best thing would be for it to be pure. Since Mortred's Dagger deals 160 pure damage when maxed, I see no reason why Tang Lang can't do this too.

4th Skill - Ulti (is it Predator?):
Unique and original. Though there would be problems with tree destroying skills. Perhaps make the tree spell-immune? This way the only way for the enemy to get him out of the tree is to stand underneath and hit the tree. Could you buff the range from 230/260/290 to 250/300/350 or even more? The attack range of most ranged heroes are around 475 (I think) so a max of 290 is pretty bad. I think there would be coding issues (someone clarify) unless this has been solved when they made Batrider's Firefly.

That's all for now. May the stars watch over you.
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Old 10-22-2011, 03:18 PM   #36
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Interesting concept
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Old 11-01-2011, 03:02 PM   #37
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

-Praying Stance:
Looks to me like Shackles/Dismember, but with a twist.
Eh, so-so skill if you ask me.
T-null!

-Camouflage:
This one is bad for few reasons:
- Blur gives transparency and does not penalize PA in any way (on contrary, it gives lot of other delicious buffs)!
- Vision block actually screws up it's stealth aspect.
- Your ultimate is already a stealth skill, making this one redundant.
T-down!

-X-jump:
Well, this is a decent skill.
Nothing special, but has fine synergy with other skills and is fairly simple.
T-up!

-Predator:
I like this one a lot.
I have made a concept for a similar skill for quite some time ago.
I would only change that Mantis can fall of the tree in case tree gets destroyed, not when it receives damage.
T-up!

Overall, it's a decent looking hero actually.
Far form being something amazing, that's for sure, but I do feel that this hero can be a lot better and end up being something pretty insteresting only if it gets polished more.
Giving it a T-upish T-null!
Keep up with good work!
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:48 PM   #38
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Interesting, like the model and the thoughts behind the skills, great theme you came up with.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:23 PM   #39
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

UPDATE
  • Reworked on all skill.
  • Maybe more fun to play.
  • Nerf attack damage and movement speed.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:12 PM   #40
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Default Re: [NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

Predator skill is wicked. I like this concept a lot and i think all your skills are codable. Good luck with it! Cheers~
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