[NEU-AGI]Tang Lang, Praying Mantis

[Klagger]

Hero Suggestion

Tang Lang

Praying Mantis

Version 1.2

Foreword

This time i want to create something unique skill which is challenging toward engine of war3.A skill which able to use twice within short duration before the skill going to cooldown.A skill which enable hero to craw on a tree.


Background Story

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Hero Introduction

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Hero Model & Statistics



Model : Mantis (Green). (Looking for new hero icon and spell icons) Suggestions are welcome.
Theme : A predator that slowly moving toward the prey , grabbing the prey and bite it with extremespeed.

Strength Agility Intelligence

18 + 2 22 + 2.2 16 + 1.5

Role : Carry,killer

Affiliation:Neutral
Damage: 50-62
Attack Range: 128 (melee)
Armor: 1.6
Movespeed: 300
Attack Animation: 0.4 / 0.5
Casting Animation: 0.2 / 0.51
Base Attack Time: 1.6
Missile Speed: Instant
Sight Range: 1800 at Day / 1200 at Night

Skills and Abilities

Learns Praying Stance,Scissor Dash,Nature vaultPredator.


Skill 1 : Praying Stance

Ability Type : Active
Ability Hotkey : E
Targetting Type : Instant

Mana Cost : 80

Mantis put himself in "prayer-like" stance, disable him to attack.Catch his prey from 160 distance for a long duration upon striking.Grant subskill,Extremespeed bite.

Level 1 : Grab for 2.0 seconds.
Level 2 : Grab for 2.5 seconds.
Level 3 : Grab for 3.0 seconds.
Level 4 : Grab for 3.5 seconds.

Cooldown : 12 seconds

Subskill : Extremespeed Bite

Ability Type : Passive
Ability Hotkey : B
Targetting Type : N/A

Mana Cost : N/A

Once mantis grab a prey, he stop slashing prey with his pair of scissor but continue to biting the prey.The speed of biting is depend on mantis' attack speed.
Level 1 : Deal 20 base damage.Lower Mantis BAT to 0.9.
Level 2 : Deal 30 base damage.Lower Mantis BAT to 0.8.
Level 3 : Deal 40 base damage.Lower Mantis BAT to 0.7.
Level 4 : Deal 50 base damage.Lower Mantis BAT to 0.6.

Cooldown : N/A

Explanation :

In real life, mantis will catch his prey using his spike foreleg and continuous biting the prey until the prey died and devour the prey completely.So this skill is usually the same , catch a prey and biting the prey.To make it more interesting , this hero has two type of attack : one is normal attack and another one is bite.Normal attack does the same as he attack the unit.But the bite is different, it has its own attack damage and lower BAT which deal more damage to prey if mantis has high attack speed and attack damage.

Notes :

• While in praying stance , mantis will not automatically attack unit.The first targeted enemy from player himself, mantis will catch it from 160 distance away or more nearer.
• While grabbing a prey,both of them is immobile.
• Mantis still able to use skill while in praying stance and while biting.
• Mantis turn rate is reduced by 80% while biting.
• The cooldown of this skill is start count only after mantis strike a prey.

Skill 2 :Scissor Dash

Ability Type : Instant
Ability Hotkey : R
Targetting Type : Instant

Mana Cost : 80 mana

Mantis widely open his scissor blade and dashes 300 distances forward, damaging enemies caught in his path. As long as he impacts an enemy, he may perform a second dash within a 2 second window.

Level 1 : Deal (30 damage + attack damage) per dash.
Level 2 : Deal (40 damage + attack damage) per dash.
Level 3 : Deal (50 damage + attack damage) per dash.
Level 4 : Deal (60 damage + attack damage) per dash.

Cooldown : 12s/11/s10s/9s


Notes :

• Only based on base attack damage and that given by the primary attribute of Mantis. Raw bonus damage is not count.

Skill 3 : Nature Vault

Ability Type : Active
Ability Hotkey : R
Targetting Type : Instant

Mana Cost : 90 mana

Mantis vault over a unit, jumping 280 distance in front of the unit while knocking the unit backwards by 200 distance.Upon landing, dealing X-scissor shape area damage. Mantis able to have a free vault on a unit again after 2 seconds casting "Nature Vault".If there are no enemies nearby to vault , Mantis will vault on his prey instead, and apply all vault enemy effect to the prey.


Level 1 : Vaulted and upon landing will deal 120 damage and slow for 20%.
Level 2 : Vaulted and upon landing will deal 150 damage and slow for 40%.
Level 3 : Vaulted and upon landing will deal 180 damage and slow for 60%.
Level 4 : Vaulted and upon landing will deal 210 damage and slow for 80%.

Cooldown : 18s/16s/14s/12s


Notes :

• When jumping , mantis able to dodge certain projectile that coming toward him.
• Damage type is physical.

Ultimate : Predator

Ability Type : Active
Ability Hotkey : F
Targetting Type : Tree

Mantis born to become a predator with a high concealment skill.He able to conceal himself on the tree.The tree support mantis to catch his prey from a more longer distance.And able him to catch the prey without noticeable by prey's allied.Once his catch a prey,the crawled tree was cut into smaller piece which cause the prey lose his allied sight from all prey's allied unit.Crawl up on a tree with 2seconds.

Level 1 : Able Prayer stance to catch enemy from 220distance away or below.
Level 2 : Able Prayer stance to catch enemy from 240distance away or below.And able to walk on another tree every 1.0seconds.
Level 3 : Able Prayer stance to catch enemy from 260distance away or below.And able to walk on another tree every 0.5seconds.Boost 150% attack speed when caught a prey for 3.5 seconds.

Cooldown : 60s

Notes :

• The tree will shake if mantis crawling up the tree.
• The prey that being caught will not giving any allied vision toward his allied unit.
• Destroy the tree on the area of 300 once mantis successfully caught a prey or duration ended.
• Last for 30second.

[Wwallace_]

second skill is too much rip-off from BB
third strange name to skill that reduces regen with each hit - too much effects in one skill - forced synergy
wtf is ultimate? 300/500/700 aoe call with assault/stygian/medallion plus overgrowth?

Are you serious? Mantis?

[DreamEvil]

Ok, I'm thinking this idea is very imba. On defense order, the master mantis can no longer be damaged from the side or back? So running is 100% effective as an escape mecahnism suddenly? That needs to change. I realize it has 2 seconds where it won't bein effect, but ultimately I still don't like it as a passive.

Face to face steals hp regen AND increases attack speed? Again, way too powerful for a normal spell in my opinion, and has no real theme. The skills seem to just be mismatched and unoriginal all together...

Overall, I don't really see a good point to this suggestion... Sorry.

[Klagger]

Originally Posted by Wwallace_

second skill is too much rip-off from BB
third strange name to skill that reduces regen with each hit - too much effects in one skill - forced synergy
wtf is ultimate? 300/500/700 aoe call with assault/stygian/medallion plus overgrowth?

Are you serious? Mantis?

First of all, this suggestion still in construction, so dont too care about the numbers...About the second skill, i dont think it too much same as BB..it prevent all damage source not reducing...

Originally Posted by DreamEvil

Ok, I'm thinking this idea is very imba. On defense order, the master mantis can no longer be damaged from the side or back? So running is 100% effective as an escape mecahnism suddenly? That needs to change. I realize it has 2 seconds where it won't bein effect, but ultimately I still don't like it as a passive.

Care about on the concept itself 1st...the number will be adjusted later...^^

Face to face steals hp regen AND increases attack speed? Again, way too powerful for a normal spell in my opinion, and has no real theme. The skills seem to just be mismatched and unoriginal all together...

Overall, I don't really see a good point to this suggestion... Sorry.

It still the 1st draft of suggestion...have much skill effect will be polish and rework...^^

[DreamEvil]

Okay, lets go down the list then, shall we?

X-Scissor - This skill as I understand it, blinks you to behind the target and does damage to target and gives you a bonus to your damage as you attack it. Rikimaru does the same thing with Blink Strike except he stays in front of the target. Not very original. Also, does the increase damage to enemies affect the 100 damage per attack? If so, you're adding quite a bit, though it's numbers.

Defensive Order - Ok, when you stand around you become invisible and then it ALSO gives IMMUNITY from DAMAGE unless the person is directly in front of the hero. Take out the transparency/invisibility all together, it makes NO sense with the skill. Also, NERF THE SKILL. Maybe it does reduction, but then, as said before, it is a rip off of Bristleback. But IMMUNITY is IMBA. And if you just leave it as invisibility, then you're also same as Rikimaru's Permanent Invisibility.

Face to Face - This one is original. I don't understand why you are stealing hp regen though. The increased attack speed is fine, but the hp regen seems out there. And, this skill is easily countered. The enemy turns away. This is the one skill that I can go with, just give him a reason to be draining the regen in a story arc somewhere.

Focus Sight - This is so convoluted I'm confused as to where to start. Let's distill it. You loose sight range, but any enemy within your sight range becomes immobilized and unable to turn away from you and looses their armor. Ok, IMBA with the armor reduction to 0, but thats numbers. It lasts 5 seconds at the highest level. Seems short. It just seems like Beserker's Call on Axe. All enemies in the AoE focus on you. You add in immobilization and the decrease in armor. Not really original, and frankly weird. If you want them to focus on you, why root them in place?

Overall, I don't understand what role you are trying to go for with this hero. It seems like you want him to do everything and be some uber hero. And the skills are largely unoriginal. It's not a number's issue, it is a creative and focus issue. You need to figure out exactly what you want this hero to be good at and where it's weaknesses will lie and then build skills based on that. This is all simply my opinion, maybe someone else sees something different. Personally, I'd start over with the hero.

[Klagger]

Originally Posted by DreamEvil

Okay, lets go down the list then, shall we?

X-Scissor - This skill as I understand it, blinks you to behind the target and does damage to target and gives you a bonus to your damage as you attack it. Rikimaru does the same thing with Blink Strike except he stays in front of the target. Not very original. Also, does the increase damage to enemies affect the 100 damage per attack? If so, you're adding quite a bit, though it's numbers.

Not blink...it is instant cast spell which slash the area with his scissors...each scissor deal certain damage.While jumping he may dodge some projectile...I dont think it is same as Rikimaru.

Defensive Order - Ok, when you stand around you become invisible and then it ALSO gives IMMUNITY from DAMAGE unless the person is directly in front of the hero. Take out the transparency/invisibility all together, it makes NO sense with the skill. Also, NERF THE SKILL. Maybe it does reduction, but then, as said before, it is a rip off of Bristleback. But IMMUNITY is IMBA. And if you just leave it as invisibility, then you're also same as Rikimaru's Permanent Invisibility.

Invisibility?? i didnt say any invisibility effect on this skill...the transparency is the effect , not invisibility.And the second part effect will take effect when mantis get damage while transparency,which protect from being receive any damage from side and back part.

Face to Face - This one is original. I don't understand why you are stealing hp regen though. The increased attack speed is fine, but the hp regen seems out there. And, this skill is easily countered. The enemy turns away. This is the one skill that I can go with, just give him a reason to be draining the regen in a story arc somewhere.

This is the skill is will rework on it.
Focus Sight - This is so convoluted I'm confused as to where to start. Let's distill it. You loose sight range, but any enemy within your sight range becomes immobilized and unable to turn away from you and looses their armor. Ok, IMBA with the armor reduction to 0, but thats numbers. It lasts 5 seconds at the highest level. Seems short. It just seems like Beserker's Call on Axe. All enemies in the AoE focus on you. You add in immobilization and the decrease in armor. Not really original, and frankly weird. If you want them to focus on you, why root them in place?
This is the skill is will rework on it.

Overall, I don't understand what role you are trying to go for with this hero. It seems like you want him to do everything and be some uber hero. And the skills are largely unoriginal. It's not a number's issue, it is a creative and focus issue. You need to figure out exactly what you want this hero to be good at and where it's weaknesses will lie and then build skills based on that. This is all simply my opinion, maybe someone else sees something different. Personally, I'd start over with the hero.

Thx for your suggestion...^^

[Klagger]

Someone can review this??
All skills is reworked ..^^
But ulti is still havent finish yet...^^

[DreamEvil]

X-Scissor - I like the remake. You said it's not a blink, so what happens is you hero jumps straight up and down? If he moves forward or backward it's a blink/leap skill. I like it as it is now, makes sense.

Leaf Coat - I like this better that the last one. As far as the transparency goes, Mortred does that with her blur and it's a constant 80% at all levels, and only activated when a visible enemy hero is within 1600 AoE. Hers does dodge after that and yours damage reduction, so it works. A suggestion would be that maybe you use the wings on the model and say that every X seconds a hit causes him to launch himself off the ground, and an automatic miss for the enemy. It's still damage reduction, but in a different way, and doesn't have the hero trying to do two things at once. *shrug* no real change either way to the skill, so it's all aesthetics.

Scissor Blade - This is a variation on Ursa Warrior's Fury Swipes. It does permanent health loss until the enemies death instead of just extra damage. I don't know if thats original enough, it is different and doesn't seem over powered, and synergizes well with your other skills. For now, I have no real complaints with it.

Internal Wound - Basically a double damage spell, but one that you can call in the second hit whenever. I really like the idea of this. As long as it has no animation, the enemy hero wouldn't know when you casted it, which means he'd never know if it was safe to run, of if you'd just call in you Natural Harvest and kill him off. I would even like to see it include increased damage or increased attack speed if the enemy is lower on life. That way waiting to cast this would net more damage to rebound. It would add strategy to the hero.

The remake is alot stronger than the original. Good Job.

[Klagger]

Originally Posted by DreamEvil

X-Scissor - I like the remake. You said it's not a blink, so what happens is you hero jumps straight up and down? If he moves forward or backward it's a blink/leap skill. I like it as it is now, makes sense.

Thx for liking it.I prefer leap "word" though...xD...

Leaf Coat - I like this better that the last one. As far as the transparency goes, Mortred does that with her blur and it's a constant 80% at all levels, and only activated when a visible enemy hero is within 1600 AoE. Hers does dodge after that and yours damage reduction, so it works. A suggestion would be that maybe you use the wings on the model and say that every X seconds a hit causes him to launch himself off the ground, and an automatic miss for the enemy. It's still damage reduction, but in a different way, and doesn't have the hero trying to do two things at once. *shrug* no real change either way to the skill, so it's all aesthetics.

Thx for the suggestion...further re-polishing will make after a few days...^^

Scissor Blade - This is a variation on Ursa Warrior's Fury Swipes. It does permanent health loss until the enemies death instead of just extra damage. I don't know if thats original enough, it is different and doesn't seem over powered, and synergizes well with your other skills. For now, I have no real complaints with it.

Ya...i kinda lot alike , but actually it didnt...this is a dps skill which the damage dealt is in hp removal...while ursa fury swipes is adding extra damage for a short duration if the target is same.

Internal Wound - Basically a double damage spell, but one that you can call in the second hit whenever. I really like the idea of this. As long as it has no animation, the enemy hero wouldn't know when you casted it, which means he'd never know if it was safe to run, of if you'd just call in you Natural Harvest and kill him off. I would even like to see it include increased damage or increased attack speed if the enemy is lower on life. That way waiting to cast this would net more damage to rebound. It would add strategy to the hero.

Thx for the suggestion again....i will re-polish some of the skill after a few days...^^
The remake is alot stronger than the original. Good Job.

Thx ^^ Reply in green

[Klagger]

UPDATE::

• Using simple template
• Change and rework all those skill.
• Some skill description is not good enough.So hoping member help me to polish it.
• Skill icon and model icon are needed.
• Some explaination will be added later.
• Members can comment now.

[vhang123123]

Another hero from klagger...

I like the first skill so much.It is very unique way to catch a prey.

Will review it soon after finished my work in real life.

And a free bump

[Klagger]

^Thx...^^
Someone review this plz

[Vot1_Bear]

1st skill is decent, but imba. about 3.5s disable with 8s cooldown and 80 manacost. see?
I'll review the rest later, but it seems promising

[Klagger]

^ Thx...i will wait for your further suggestion...xD

[Klagger]

UPDATE::

• Rework some skills effect
• Some skill description is not good enough.So hoping member help me to polish it.
• Skill icon and model icon are needed.
• Some explaination will be added later.
• Members can comment now.

[vhang123123]

So, as promised. I will start review your hero.
Stat: Is fine inho.

Abilities/Skills:

1) Praying stance
A very unique way to catch prey and bite with.I very like the bite concept which it change the way from normal attack to a new attack mechanism which totally will be awesome when in late game if only if he can farm enough.About the effect,could make it more interesting. Such as : the hp different between mantis and the prey.If the hp of mantis more than the prey than the duration will be increase by 0.1s(example) for each percentage different and vise versa.That will be nice too.

2)Camouflage
A nice skill which fit his theme and real life mantis.I saw animal planet before,said that mantis had remarkable speed and high skill of camouflage to catch his prey.So does this skill, giving the same function for catching a prey.I like the transparency effect.But i quite dont understand what the mean about the vision lost about the degree.Mind to explain it??

3)X-jump
A mantis which can jump.Less see mantis jump until now.But it is good also which the skill effect.Synergy is very good.Able to jump between tree.Totally awesome. A new and unique skill i think.The duration of 3.5 seconds, which this skill is able to spam.But the distance jump is totally too far if this cd is very low.Imagine mirana , she leap skill has 18s cd and it only leap 840distance. While yours able to leap 350 distance with 3.5s cd.So,14s you can leap 1400 distance!! Totally imba.Hope you can change it.

4)Predator
Mantis that hide in a tree?? Well , it fine since i saw some hide between rocks or grass.
And a new unique concept again , with hiding in the tree, which 3rd skill able you to jump between trees.

Overall, a unique hero and very solid idea which may be another most like hero suggestion. GL!!

[Klagger]

Originally Posted by vhang123123

So, as promised. I will start review your hero.
Stat: Is fine inho.

Abilities/Skills:

1) Praying stance
A very unique way to catch prey and bite with.I very like the bite concept which it change the way from normal attack to a new attack mechanism which totally will be awesome when in late game if only if he can farm enough.About the effect,could make it more interesting. Such as : the hp different between mantis and the prey.If the hp of mantis more than the prey than the duration will be increase by 0.1s(example) for each percentage different and vise versa.That will be nice too.


I try to create some unique way which might give surprise for other members...and hope it can attract more ppl to comment...xD
Thx anyway, for the suggestion..i very like that ways...will update in next version...^^

2)Camouflage
A nice skill which fit his theme and real life mantis.I saw animal planet before,said that mantis had remarkable speed and high skill of camouflage to catch his prey.So does this skill, giving the same function for catching a prey.I like the transparency effect.But i quite dont understand what the mean about the vision lost about the degree.Mind to explain it??

About the degree vision block, i will add picture later ...^^

3)X-jump
A mantis which can jump.Less see mantis jump until now.But it is good also which the skill effect.Synergy is very good.Able to jump between tree.Totally awesome. A new and unique skill i think.The duration of 3.5 seconds, which this skill is able to spam.But the distance jump is totally too far if this cd is very low.Imagine mirana , she leap skill has 18s cd and it only leap 840distance. While yours able to leap 350 distance with 3.5s cd.So,14s you can leap 1400 distance!! Totally imba.Hope you can change it.

Hmm...really...didnt notice it before...thx for your suggestion also...^^

4)Predator
Mantis that hide in a tree?? Well , it fine since i saw some hide between rocks or grass.
And a new unique concept again , with hiding in the tree, which 3rd skill able you to jump between trees.

Thx for liking...May will update some skill effect in next version...^^

Overall, a unique hero and very solid idea which may be another most like hero suggestion. GL!!

Hope ^^
Anyways, thx for your suggestion...

[Flame13]

Umm I kind of don't understand this...
Crawling up on a tree already makes you kind of invisible so why do you want to camouflage? And you can jump from one tree to another which is really good and because of this you don't need anymore stealth spells...First skill is pretty good altough I don't understand it fully...

[Klagger]

Originally Posted by Flame13

Umm I kind of don't understand this...
Crawling up on a tree already makes you kind of invisible so why do you want to camouflage? And you can jump from one tree to another which is really good and because of this you don't need anymore stealth spells...First skill is pretty good altough I don't understand it fully...

First skill:
Cast it.Mantis will stop attacking unit automatically to prevent he strike the enemy creeps randomly.Now, mantis can grab his prey from only 200 distance away or below...Grab=attack command on a targeted unit.When mantis grabbing a prey, now he will stop using his scissor instead he bite the prey quickly.So, the bite is another attack mechansim(give 2 attack type such as pugna which had 2 type of attack) which deal the damage which i stated above.And had lower BAT.While he can attack his prey more faster which is depending on mantis attack speed himself.

Ultimate:Crawling to the tree didnt give him invisibility.Enemy still able to see him. Thus he able to receive spell or damage from any source.To prevent this skill abuse by player(he must cast it on the tree which in the range of 50).Animation:Should give mantis more easily noticeable when crawled on tree, to prevent OP)

2nd skill:Able to give him transparency which able to help his weakness.But at the same time reduce his movement speed to low constant value.

[FreeBorN]

Since I want to help you, first of all I corrected the tooltip of the first skill.
PLEASE let me know if I misunderstood something, I will correct it.

Original Tooltip

Mantis put himself in "prayer-like" stance, disable him to attack.Catch his prey from a near distance for a long duration upon striking.If the victim has low hp,mantis can continuous grabbing the prey for more longer duration.The prey may have chances to release themself after 1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds grabbing if the hp of the prey is higher than mantis.Grant subskill,Extremespeed bite.

Corrected to:

The Mantis puts himself into a prayer stance disabling his auto-attack. However he can catch a near enemy unit - his prey - upon issuing an attack order. If the victim has low hp (comment: add % values and % progression if it's based on the LvL of the skill) the Mantis will continuously keep biting the prey for a longer duration. The prey has a chance to break free from the embrace of the Mantis after 1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds.
While the target is embraced the Mantis is granted the Extremespeed bite ability.

comment: I Don't get this last part about chances to break free, it has chance, it means a random % based chance to break free IF it's hp is higher( constant or % based??), but what happens if the chance happens, what if not, what if the hp is not higher, there are a lot of cases that are not defined at all, please define these.

I would rather help you to first make the interface of your hero clear and easy to understand, than start judging it without even understanding your proposed idea

Cheers!