[MODEL/DIRGE] Flesh Golem/Tombstone

[thoby123]

Personally, I detest Flesh Golem for making Dirge look oh-so-powerful in battle when in reality the only difference is the plague aura. Admittedly powerful, but nothing that supports such a dramatic change in appearance to an almighty meat titan.
Quoted for truth:

Originally Posted by Schremba

Its like a Rabbit transforms into an Elephant, but is still as weak as a rabbit...

Therefore, I suggest these changes.

DISCLAIMER:
I'm mostly pushing for the first change, namely to Flesh Golem. Now with the tinting of the model there isn't such a big issue with model reuse anymore. So for future reviews, I'd like these two suggestions to be also viewed separately. Thanks.

1) Rename Flesh Golem to something else (see below) and use this model for the transformation:


Yup, it's the Tombstone zombie. I think this one fits much better on Dirge as a transformation, as it doesn't make him look like he would last a lot longer in battle but still makes it obvious when Plague is activated.
For those concerned about reuse of the blue zombie model, see the other part of this suggestion


As you can see the base structure of both models is the same. The two models share animations, so it helps keep them similar.


And a comparison to the current effect (Flesh Golem on the far right, suggested model in the middle).

Alternatively, I suggested a tinted version of the same model a bit later in this thread. Link here.
Since obviously Flesh Golem doesn't fit as the skillname anymore, I'd welcome suggestions for a new name. Personally I was thinking Pandemic, though that changes the hotkey as well... Or Infection? Affliction? Plague Form?


2) Use these beasties instead of little zombies on using Tombstone:


While the screenshot doesn't show the current Acolytes-channeling effect, I want to keep that; it's just not present in the testmap. So please don't consider the tombstone itself as part of the suggestion.
Sludge monsters? And why?? Well if Dirge can spread a damage-amplifying disease and sap strength with some green virus-thing, it's not much of a mind stretch to imagine he can summon living blobs of sludge to attack his foes either Besides, getting sentinent slime on your shoes would be a unique way of slowing down someone than some boring poison IMO.
For the slow effect, I'd suggest a version of the ladder Sorceress' Slow debuff, but recolored purple. I'm not sure how to do this myself so if anyone could help it'd be much appreciated.

Another alternative is the 'bloody villager' model suggested by asam, screenshots here:





Again, please check out the testmap for an ingame view!
So... thoughts?

[Schremba]

I need to say, I really like this. I've always hated the giant Flesh Golem. Its like a Rabbit transforms into an Elephant, but is still as weak as a rabbit...
I think this would be a good use of the Sludge Monstrosity Model. There is also a similar green one, which could be used as a hero, so no model wastes here. The slow buff could use the ladder Sludge Flinger Missile, attached to chest or whatever
I give you a big T-up

[NoThlnG]

No, I rather see dirge with tinted color. Zombie looks weird to me...

[thoby123]

Originally Posted by Schremba

Its like a Rabbit transforms into an Elephant, but is still as weak as a rabbit...

Quoted for truth. Thanks for your support, and I'll try the sludge missile debuff thing later

Originally Posted by NoThlnG

No, I rather see dirge with tinted color. Zombie looks weird to me...

If you look closely, I'm sure you'll see several subtle but awesome differences between the two models. The face on blue zombie looks a tad more decayed, and looks older thanks to some age lines. The body also looks a bit more rotten, and the clothes more chewed up. Great for that epic change into plaguebringer form!

Anyways, a slight improvement to the suggested model. Give it this tint:

150 255 90 for your interest. Looks a hella lot more sickly and diseased now!


Let's play spot the differences, hopefully this pic makes it a bit clearer

And for those scared the tint might make frost effects screw up:

The model was already blue, so no worries there

[bababoom]

actually, "I" personally detested the Flesh Golem model, as mentioned in your other thread. But all goods whatever. I like the change to the ult, but imo Tombstone should still raise zombies, since I believe it's Icefrog paying homage to zombie stereotype in movies. So I like the suggestion that he turns green tint and have the gas oozing, but Tombstone should still keep their blue zombies. Think ult should then renamed "The Plague." Direct, simple, and fits warcraft lore.

[dresmasher]

He looks almost demonic now, those eyes, I like it, ( reminds me of painkiller) T-up
& the green coming out, fits the plague perfectly

[Baldoro]

I'd like to see no changes in his looking, seriously.
T-down, sorry.
I really like the current before- and after-transformation models more.
Only the aura effect should be changed.

[thoby123]

Originally Posted by bababoom

actually, "I" personally detested the Flesh Golem model, as mentioned in your other thread. But all goods whatever. I like the change to the ult, but imo Tombstone should still raise zombies, since I believe it's Icefrog paying homage to zombie stereotype in movies. So I like the suggestion that he turns green tint and have the gas oozing, but Tombstone should still keep their blue zombies. Think ult should then renamed "The Plague." Direct, simple, and fits warcraft lore.

Haha did I not mention I disliked it myself? I do have you to thank for inspiration though, so kudos to you for kick-starting my search
As for your comments, I also find the second part of this suggestion to be the weaker one. It's a no-brainer to change the Flesh Golem model, but since the new model would be re-used I had to suggest a follow-up change to Tombstone. I suppose it can remain as it is now; March of the Machines uses Clockwerk's model too, so all's fair if it fits well.

[thoby123]

bump much? This is my biggest sug to date so feedback (good or bad) would be appreciated

[Zack1996]

Great change for the ultimate!
Not so sure about Tombstone though. I doubt tombstones spawn Slime Monsters 0_o
I think that a skeletal works (not, but its not used, amazingly).

T-Up for Ultimate change, null for Tombstone.

[thoby123]

Originally Posted by Zack1996

Great change for the ultimate!
Not so sure about Tombstone though. I doubt tombstones spawn Slime Monsters 0_o
I think that a skeletal works (not, but its not used, amazingly).

T-Up for Ultimate change, null for Tombstone.

I didn't want to use skellies cause of a couple reasons:
- Leoric already uses the model
- How does a skeleton slow you on attack?
- Boring in terms of the fantasy genre, sludge beasts are more original.

I think I'll ask future reviews to take the suggestions separately as well. Now with the ulti's tint-change there's not so much of an issue with re-using models.
Thanks for your feedback!

[Necro]

Whoa that's great! T-up! I like the green zombie, how about you keep the tombstone zombies as blue and dirge as green?

[XGIRAFFEX]

T-down

For the sake of the ult, he doesn't need to transform at all.

The models suggested look almost worse than the flesh golem model.

Lose the blue zombie, keep the original with a plague cloud during ult and done.

No sludge monsters -_-. That's just goofy.

[thoby123]

Originally Posted by Necro

Whoa that's great! T-up! I like the green zombie, how about you keep the tombstone zombies as blue and dirge as green?

Thanks Now I'm wondering whether I should split off this thread and just push forward the ulti change.

Originally Posted by XGIRAFFEX

T-down

The models suggested look almost worse than the flesh golem model.

Lose the blue zombie, keep the original with a plague cloud during ult and done.

No sludge monsters -_-. That's just goofy.

I did try just attaching the plague, but it's not really obvious enough to show when Dirge has ulti on. A model change should be done so people can see that, otherwise you'll have people QQing over 'but I didn't know Dirge was using ulti -.-'
On another note, did you see the green tinted version?
Thanks for feedback

[XGIRAFFEX]

It's obvious when Dirge's ult has been casted, giant purple clouds on the heroes seem pretty visual.

And the fact that it's instant, and in an aoe, it wouldn't matter if you knew or didn't know dirge was casting it, it happens anyway, and there's no way of avoiding it besides running away, or killing dirge; who should be priority, because he's already dangerous as hell.

It's all down to what looks nice, and none of these look all that much better than the absurd flesh golem model.

And tinting a zombie an awkward green color doesn't make him look dangerous, it just ends up looking like the old granite golem model;
I.E.- Nonsensical

[thoby123]

Originally Posted by XGIRAFFEX

It's obvious when Dirge's ult has been casted, giant purple clouds on the heroes seem pretty visual.

And the fact that it's instant, and in an aoe, it wouldn't matter if you knew or didn't know dirge was casting it, it happens anyway, and there's no way of avoiding it besides running away, or killing dirge; who should be priority, because he's already dangerous as hell.

It's all down to what looks nice, and none of these look all that much better than the absurd flesh golem model.

And tinting a zombie an awkward green color doesn't make him look dangerous, it just ends up looking like the old granite golem model;
I.E.- Nonsensical

Dirge's ulti, as it is right now, needs a change. Seeing as Flesh Golem only adds the plague aura to Dirge, it doesn't warrant such a transformation that makes him suddenly look he could fight better/take more damage/etc.
But fair enough I suppose. Dirge+Plague ftw.
And I find that last statement a bit off, seeing as an Emerald Golem that still looks like it's made from rock isn't much better anyway. Yes more pleasing to the eyes to OMFG-GREEN, but still. Tints and coloring are a bit of a 'your-mileage-may-vary' debate: some people'll love, and some'll hate.

[Foede]

T-D to removing meat golem. It's an ulti, and even if the only difference is the added aura, an Ultimate is supposed to look as powerful as possible. Also, you mention the aura as if it's some sort of insignificant brilliance aura, which is completely wrong. You get slow, amplified damage, a heal per every kill under the buff, all of this in a decent AoE. There is also the obvious cosmetic factor that the golem looks really awesome.

Because of all that, I feel like T-D'ing that.

However, I like the idea of using the sludge monster instead of the zombie for living dead. It fits perfectly the idea of the skill, it's un-used and it looks freaking awesome.

T-Up to sludge monster.

[DuKKY]

nah t-down.. its fine as it is.. this looks like a mess of a suggestion

[EseQueL]

u got my T-down without explanation needed!

[The Observer]

i would like to suggest human villagers to be used for the tombstone, lol.