[GUIDE] NoThlnG's Guide for Hero Making

[NoThlnG]

How To Make a Good Hero Suggestion
By : NoThlnG

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Contents
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0. Before Making A Hero
...0.1 Theme
...0.2 Niche

1. Model
...1.1 How to Select a Good Model
...1.2 Unused Model Lists

2. Basic Informations
...2.1 Primary Attributes & Stats
...2.2 Attack Range & MS
...2.3 Story
...2.4 Other Details
......2.4.1 Affiliation
......2.4.2 Roles

3. Skills
...3.1 Originality / Uniqueness
...3.2 Simplicity
...3.3 Synergies
...3.4 Fitness to the Warcraft and DotA
...3.5 Code-ability
...3.6 Balance

4. Icons

5. Templates

NoThlnG's Secret Steps / Tips

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0. Before Making Heroes
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These are things to consider before making a hero

0.1 Theme

Theme will decide what your heroes' skills will be and if it is suitable or not.

Be careful when choosing a theme. Make sure the theme you choose is suitable to DotA

0.2 Niche

Don't create a suggestion for the sake of creating a suggestion.

Try to make a suggestion that is really needed inside of DotA.

Think of what your hero do to improve DotA and make DotA more interesting.

Ask yourself, will you usually pick this hero or you just wanna have your own hero inside of DotA?

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1. Models
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Models will determine if the skills suitable or not as well as it's fitness in DotA.

1.1 How to Select a Good Model

Thre are several things you should keep in mind which are :
- Fitness to your theme (You can't use burning model for ice theme)
- Fitness with your skill (You can't use hero that use sword for arrow skills)
- Fitness to DotA and Warcraft (Cartoonish, realistic, etc are excluded because of this reason)
- Repetitiveness (Don't use heroes inside DotA. Make a remake instead)

You can also request someone to find your model here

http://www.playdota.com/forums/90921...istors-thread/

1.2 Unused Model List

These are several sites that contain lists of unused models

Warcraft :

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/17092...models-heroes/ (PlayDotA)

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/53853...rcraft-models/ (PlayDotA)

- [LIST] Unused Warcraft III Models - DotA Allstars Discussion (DA)

Non-Warcraft :

- [LIST] Unused non-Warcraft III Models - DotA Allstars Discussion (DA)

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2. Basic Information
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One of the most important, but often neglected part of the hero.

Basic information here contains stats include primary attribute, attack range, MS, story,

affiliation, roles and themes. I will explain them one by one here

2.1 Primary Attributes & Stats

You should carefully choose the right primary attribute for your heroes.

STR heroes should look strong or big. Heroes that carry giant / heavy weapon or heavy armors and helms mostly belongs here. Tankers and some semi-carries belong here.

AGI heroes should look fast or agile. Looks weaker, or at least smaller than STR heroes. Heroes that carry light weapons mostly belongs here. Most carry and semi-carry belong here

INT heroes should look intelligent. Heroes that carry some wands/staffs or wearing robes or mage hats mostly belongs here. Most caster and supporter belong here.

Now stats. Most people just give stats without any deep thinking. They just give crazy starting stats and stats gain which in game, it will be totally imbalanced.

This is how I give base stats.
- Very Low = 10 or below
- Low = 11 ~ 13
- Medium Low = 14 ~ 16
- Medium = 17 ~ 19
- Medium High = 20 ~ 22
- High = 23 ~ 25
- Very High = 26 or above

It doesn't matter which stats you'll give what number. But make sure that your stats average is still at medium.

EXCEPTION!

- If your hero is too weak at early you can give high base stats (like FV and Meepo)
- If your hero is too strong at early you can give low base stats (like Anub'seran)

Other things to remember :
- If your hero has high base stats, balanced it or reduce it's stats gain
- If your hero has low base stats, balanced it or increase it's stats gain
- Look at your skills. If your skill needs lot of int then give very high stats on int.

2.2 Attack Range & MS

There is nothing much I want to say here but remember these :
- Don't give attack range more than 650 without any reason it will cause imbalanced.
- Most int heroes are ranged and most str heroes are melee while agi is about 50:50.
- In most case, melee heroes having more MS than ranged heroes.
- Spell casters tend to have lower MS then attack-based heroes.

2.3 Story

I'm not a good story-makers so I can't say much about it.

But keep the story interesting but still related to DotA.

These things are good to be mentioned in stories :
- The hero's origin
- What hero did before he came into DotA
- How did he came into DotA (what event make it)
- How powerful the hero

You can ask for story here

http://www.playdota.com/forums/90921...istors-thread/

2.4 Other Details

Beside above there are other details that you should consider when making a hero, includes

affiliation, roles and themes

2.4.1 Affiliation

Simple. Really simple. Sentinel, Neutral or Scourge. If you made a story, just follow it. If

you haven't made it, just using common sense. If it feels good then it's sentinel and if it

feels evil then it's scourge.

2.4.2 Roles

Roles of your hero inside of DotA. Think of it and choose from below
- Carry (Late-game heroes that is item dependent. Needs to farm and level a lot. Good at dealing lot of damage for short period of time)
- Semi-Carry (More versatile and less item dependant than carries, but usually not as effective as them)
- Ganker (Early-mid heroes that is especially good at ganking)
- Tanker (Durable and hard-to-bring-down heroes, whose main role is to absorb the damage dealt by the enemies. Recommended to have skills that force enemies to attack him/her)
- Caster (Rely on spells to damage enemies. Usually good at early-mid games)
- Support (Support allies with supporting / healing skills)
- Pusher (Pushing a line with fast speed)

You can choose more than one role from these roles for a hero. You don't have to give one role for one hero...

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3. Skills
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Now I will go to the most important part of hero making the skills

There are several things to consider when making skills Originality / Uniqueness, Simplicity, Synergies, Fitness to the Warcraft and DotA and Code-ability.

If you're having trouble on making skills, you can ask for help here

http://www.playdota.com/forums/90921...istors-thread/

3.1 Originality / Uniqueness

All skills should be original and unique. It shouldn't be exist in DotA now.

These ideas may look original but it isn't :

• Have really unique / cool visual effects but what it do is same with other skill (No matter what it's visual effect, but if it just do AoE stun then it's not original)
• Adding some details to an existing skills
• Mixing some skills

These ideas can be used as original skills

• Change a significant part from an existing skill. Ex : Make soul rip like skill but heals / dmg mana instead of hp.
• Mixing some skill but give some significant change
• Reversing a skill. You don't have to give other change but it is still recommended to give another change.

3.2 Simplicity

Second most important aspect of skill is its simplicity. Many skills that is suggested is too complicated so may bring confusion to DotA.

Complicated skill isn't a skill that has many details. A complicated skill is a skill that has too many effects, until people are hard to understand what the skill actually do.

Try to make skill with few effects and use easy to understand words.

3.3 Synergies

Other important thing when you make a skill is how it synergize with other skills as well as other heroes.

For more definition and others about synergies you can refer to this thread :

http://www.playdota.com/forums/31966...guide-synergy/

3.4 Fitness to Warcarft and DotA

All skills must fit to Warcraft and DotA themes.

Try to think of skills that is fits the DotA and Warcarft timing and theme.

3.5 Code-ability

Last but not least, the skills you make must be code-able in Warcraft.

Else, you can't make the skill you're interested.

You can look at follow link for more information about uncodable things

http://www.playdota.com/forums/63396...odable-things/

3.6 Balance

Think about this : What would you do against your hero?

Every hero has a counter in game. Be it silencing, magic immunity, burst damage, damage over time, etc. Every hero that you make has to be balanced. Numbers can be changed but the concept should be balanced too. Invulnerability, mind control, etc. are just imbalanced, and basic counter measures wouldn't work. Most likely you'd need a new counter.

So, when you make a hero, imagine yourself fighting that hero. Would it be too frustrating or imbalanced? What works on paper doesn't always work in application. What if you fight your hero? Always be wary of that aspect in making a hero.

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4. Icons
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I don't say much thing here. Since asam3 made a wonderful thread about this

Click here to look at it

Or, you can ask help here

http://www.playdota.com/forums/90921...istors-thread/

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5. Templates
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These are templates you can use to make your hero looks better

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/48863...e-official-pd/

- http://www.playdota.com/forums/5494/...tion-template/

The above one is more simple and detail while the below one has better design though may look more complicated.
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NoThlnG's Secret Steps / Tips in Hero Making

1. Think of a broad / wide theme. Try to choose something not overused.
2. Choose a model that suitable for the theme for better skill making.
3. Make one skill that fits it. Try to be simple and original first.
4. Now think of any skill/concept that synergize the skill you made.
5. Give a little twist on it to make it more unique. Try to be simple but unique.
6. Do step 4-5 to make all other skills.
7. Look existing heroes for stats and other numbers balancing.
8. Find suitable icons or ask for them. (You could do this later)
9. Make a story or ask for it. (You could do this later)
10. Complete all other details. (You could do this later)
11. Post the suggestion.
12. Always read and consider other's suggestion.
13. Don't bump your post, PM a review instead.
14. Don't hesitate to change or nerf your skill.
15. Ask helps if you don't have any idea.
16. If you think your heroes are good enough, make/ask a test map

[Jenova-]

Looking good so far, and I appreciate this work of yours, for these kind of initiatives are crucial for the proper development of the community.

However, there are some things I'd like to point out, so you can take them (or not) into account when you decide to complete the guide:

Put emphasis on the important aspects: You should urge players to give more thought to the conceptual part of the hero, leaving things such as the model or the background story on a secondary plane.

Heroes should be made from the conceptual to the aesthetic, and not the other way around. Thus, the process should go like this: Choosing the general conceptual lines and basic idea of the hero (A.K.A "the theme"), choosing and defining his role, deciding which Primary stat and basic stats best fit what you have in mind so far and finally, based on everything you have up to this point, looking which model would best suit your hero.

Something that brings me to the next point: The "primary attributes & stats" part should be modified, as I don't think it's a good idea to suggest users to choose their primary attribute based on something as trivial as the model of the hero (I refer on this matter to what I've posted above), specially when there are a lot of in-game examples that go against this (Syllabear and Ursa being Agility, Ogre Magi and Batrider being Intelligence, etc.). Encourage them to choose their primary stat wisely and in concordance to the general idea of their hero; to make the primary attribute a sustantial part on the integral concept of their creation.

Finally, I'd suggest you revise some of the defintions you give to the roles of the heroes, as even when they are not completely wrong, they might cause some confusion in those users not familiar enough with the terms. My recommendations:


- Carry: even when they indeed need items to be effective, I wouldn't reduce their definition to only that (as most heroes need items in order to function properly).

I'd use: "Carry: Heroes that need a substantial amount of levelling and farming in order to be effective, but that usually define the game in its later stages (if the game extends long enough). They excell on dishing out big amounts of damage over short periods of time.

- "Semi-Carry: More versatile and less item dependant than carries, but usually not as effective as them; however, they usually have other advantages, or can be useful sooner than Carries.

- "Ganker: Early-mid heroes that are especially good at ganking (This one is good)"

- Tanker: Even when having a lot of HP a common trait in tanks, it's only one aspect of them. Heroes with the most HP aren't necessarily the best tanks. Hence, I'd tweak the description a bit:

"Tank: (Durable and hard-to-bring-down heroes, whose main role is to absorb the damage dealt by the enemies)

- "Caster/Nuker: Rely on spells to damage enemies. Usually good at early-mid games" (just a little correction to the writing)

- "Support Support allies with supporting / healing skills" (This one works very well)


Feel free to use any of those. Everyone has different opinions and your idea of what is more important in the process of designing a hero might differ from mine, so don't hesistate to leave out any of my suggestions if they don't follow your style.

Looking forward to seeing this one completed. Keep up the good work

[tHe silent H]

you have missed one role and that is pusher)yes it is usauly combined with other roles mainly supporter) and ther are two type of pushing:
1- fast pushing with summons dishing and absorbing damage( Furion, Brood Mother etc)
2- turtling pushing this nvolves a healer hero, who pushes with a wave then waits for the next and healing oneself/maybe creeps. pushing should be included in primary roles as you cannot win effectively if all you do is gank gank gank, farm farm farm.

[Jenova-]

Oh, tHe Silent H's post reminded me: Clarify that there's no need to pick one exclusive role. In fact, most of the time it's a better idea to try a mixture of them, otherwise the hero ends up being too straight-forward and not very versatile.

[triangle]

Jenova is dead on the money. Models really are the last thing you should be considering. The two building blocks you have are role and skills. Theme can be mashed up to produce something credible. Anyone seen Kunkka? (I can explain this further if you aren't with me)

I think the most important thing when creating a hero, or any type of suggestion for that matter, is that it should fill something that is lacking in the current map. To say; it has to fill a niche. Don't create a suggestion for the sake of creating a suggestion. That is the bane of the suggestion boards. Unless, of course, it's a contest and you're just exercising your creativity.

Anyway, the best suggestions are the ones that come to mind during a game, and you say to yourself: "Hey, DotA needs this." This is because its creation arises out of the need to fill something that is missing (a niche). This is also why good Hero Suggestions are the hardest to create, and exactly why they are rarely implemented.

[crazy sheep]

Originally Posted by NoThlnG

Now stats. Most people just give stats without any deep thinking. They just give crazy starting

stats and stats gain which in game, it will be totally imbalanced.

This is how I give base stats.
- Very Low = 10 or below
- Low = 11 ~ 13
- Medium Low = 14 ~ 16
- Medium = 17 ~ 19
- Medium High = 20 ~ 22
- High = 23 ~ 25
- Very High = 26 or above

It doesn't matter which stats you'll give what number. But make sure that your stats average is

still at medium.

EXCEPTION!

- If your hero is too weak at early you can give high base stats (like FV and Meepo)
- If your hero is too strong at early you can give low base stats (like Anub'seran)

Other things to remember :
- If your hero has high base stats, balanced it or reduce it's stats gain
- If your hero has low base stats, balanced it or increase it's stats gain
- Don't waste stats on something unimportant. If your hero is spell based, don't waste your

stats on agi. Use it on str or agi.
- Look at your skills. If your skill needs lot of int then give very high stats on int.

I think there's something wrong with this here. Imo, there should be something explaining item dependence, niche and stats.

[cezar_sl]

About stats :
High Starting Stats are associated with Early-Game heroes.
High Stat Gain is associated with Late-Game heroes.

[Twilight_Hunter]

Good,Job!!!!! ^^

[NoThlnG]

Originally Posted by Jenova-

Heroes should be made from the conceptual to the aesthetic, and not the other way around. Thus, the process should go like this: Choosing the general conceptual lines and basic idea of the hero (A.K.A "the theme"), choosing and defining his role, deciding which Primary stat and basic stats best fit what you have in mind so far and finally, based on everything you have up to this point, looking which model would best suit your hero.

You have a point there. I'll try to put it on my guide soon (I've been quite busy lately...)

Originally Posted by Jenova-

Something that brings me to the next point: The "primary attributes & stats" part should be modified, as I don't think it's a good idea to suggest users to choose their primary attribute based on something as trivial as the model of the hero (I refer on this matter to what I've posted above), specially when there are a lot of in-game examples that go against this (Syllabear and Ursa being Agility, Ogre Magi and Batrider being Intelligence, etc.). Encourage them to choose their primary stat wisely and in concordance to the general idea of their hero; to make the primary attribute a sustantial part on the integral concept of their creation.

Oops, I forgot that part. I was planning to put it also actually..

Originally Posted by Jenova-

Finally, I'd suggest you revise some of the defintions you give to the roles of the heroes, as even when they are not completely wrong, they might cause some confusion in those users not familiar enough with the terms. My recommendations:


- Carry: even when they indeed need items to be effective, I wouldn't reduce their definition to only that (as most heroes need items in order to function properly).

I'd use: "Carry: Heroes that need a substantial amount of levelling and farming in order to be effective, but that usually define the game in its later stages (if the game extends long enough). They excell on dishing out big amounts of damage over short periods of time.

- "Semi-Carry: More versatile and less item dependant than carries, but usually not as effective as them; however, they usually have other advantages, or can be useful sooner than Carries.

- "Ganker: Early-mid heroes that are especially good at ganking (This one is good)"

- Tanker: Even when having a lot of HP a common trait in tanks, it's only one aspect of them. Heroes with the most HP aren't necessarily the best tanks. Hence, I'd tweak the description a bit:

"Tank: (Durable and hard-to-bring-down heroes, whose main role is to absorb the damage dealt by the enemies)

- "Caster/Nuker: Rely on spells to damage enemies. Usually good at early-mid games" (just a little correction to the writing)

- "Support Support allies with supporting / healing skills" (This one works very well)


Feel free to use any of those. Everyone has different opinions and your idea of what is more important in the process of designing a hero might differ from mine, so don't hesistate to leave out any of my suggestions if they don't follow your style.

Looking forward to seeing this one completed. Keep up the good work

Ok, I'll modify it

Originally Posted by tHe silent H

you have missed one role and that is pusher)yes it is usauly combined with other roles mainly supporter) and ther are two type of pushing:
1- fast pushing with summons dishing and absorbing damage( Furion, Brood Mother etc)
2- turtling pushing this nvolves a healer hero, who pushes with a wave then waits for the next and healing oneself/maybe creeps. pushing should be included in primary roles as you cannot win effectively if all you do is gank gank gank, farm farm farm.

My mistake. I'll add it now

Originally Posted by Jenova-

Oh, tHe Silent H's post reminded me: Clarify that there's no need to pick one exclusive role. In fact, most of the time it's a better idea to try a mixture of them, otherwise the hero ends up being too straight-forward and not very versatile.

I'll add it

Originally Posted by notveryclever

Jenova is dead on the money. Models really are the last thing you should be considering. The two building blocks you have are role and skills. Theme can be mashed up to produce something credible. Anyone seen Kunkka? (I can explain this further if you aren't with me)

I didn't really put it based on the sequence you consider but I put it from General => Detail. Personally, I'm thinking of skills first (at least one) and try to make a hero from it.

Originally Posted by notveryclever

I think the most important thing when creating a hero, or any type of suggestion for that matter, is that it should fill something that is lacking in the current map. To say; it has to fill a niche. Don't create a suggestion for the sake of creating a suggestion. That is the bane of the suggestion boards. Unless, of course, it's a contest and you're just exercising your creativity.

Anyway, the best suggestions are the ones that come to mind during a game, and you say to yourself: "Hey, DotA needs this." This is because its creation arises out of the need to fill something that is missing (a niche). This is also why good Hero Suggestions are the hardest to create, and exactly why they are rarely implemented.

Originally Posted by crazy sheep

I think there's something wrong with this here. Imo, there should be something explaining item dependence, niche and stats.

Ok, I'll add niche to my guide....

Originally Posted by cezar_sl

About stats :
High Starting Stats are associated with Early-Game heroes.
High Stat Gain is associated with Late-Game heroes.

Already exist. See exception

[chadpiety123]

Do note that effective tankers are those types who can force enemies to focus on them and take a whole lot of damage in the process either directly or indirectly.

As far as DotA is concerned, AFAIK, Axe is the only one who has an ability which can directly make others attack him.

Indirect methods require the "tanker" to be dangerous enough to not just be ignored.

[triangle]

Dangerous being a variable amount of things. From purely dangerous DPS (like Panda), to extremely effective support (like Treant, Purist, or Alchemist).

[NoThlnG]

Originally Posted by chadpiety123

Do note that effective tankers are those types who can force enemies to focus on them and take a whole lot of damage in the process either directly or indirectly.

As far as DotA is concerned, AFAIK, Axe is the only one who has an ability which can directly make others attack him.

Indirect methods require the "tanker" to be dangerous enough to not just be ignored.

Ok, it is added.

BTW, in my hero (ballador) it has other method to be tanker that gets % of the damage gotten by allies to him... ^^

[NoThlnG]

Now the content has anchor for easier navigation..

[crazy sheep]

Suggestion on Stories:

Cliches [ie overused stories] should be avoided where possible. Think about all possible motivations for a hero to join the war. With the addition of Neutral taverns, the horizons stretch. Anything from idle curiosity to bloodthirst should be considered, and then compared to the current stories.

Overused topics:

• Revenge - EVERYONE under the sun will use this idea. Please. Don't overdo revenge. It is stale and now boring.
• Coercion/Mind twisted - The Lich King seems to control most Scourge heroes in Suggestions. If that were the case, why hasn't he decided to subvert Furion and Mirana to win just like *click* that? It doesn't really make much sense in the first place, so avoid invoking the Lich King.

[Jenova-]

^ Even when I'm a confessed lover of the aesthetic aspect of the game, I think that Hero Suggestions should be more focused on the actual hero and its mechanics/structure/viability rather than in their cosmetic aspect.

That being said, I don't think it's very productive to extend too much in matters such as icons, models, stories, tooltips, etc. Those are ultimately pointless things when deciding if a suggestion is worth of implementation or not. Not saying they are completely unnecessary or that they don't make suggestions a tad better looking, but rather encouraging hero suggesters to focus on the actually important parts of the hero).

[crazy sheep]

^ In that case, non-standard models with good supporting hero skills would have been accepted I believe?

Yes, I'm aware that cosmetics isn't that important at deciding whether a hero should be accepted into the game. But it does attract readers. And from there, the support for the hero will grow.

[Jenova-]

Hmmm, I am not sure I understand what you meant with "non-standard" models. Are you referring to models not susceptible of being added into the map (or the wacraft III engine, for that matter)?

If so, my answer would be yes. If the idea is excellent but a "non-standard" model was provided, we can easily search the WC3 engine for a model that shares the its essential qualities (For example, if a picture of Aragorn was suggested as a model, we can easily replace it with a knight-looking model).

Obviously, providing a concrete model is always preferred, but what I'm trying to say is that the aesthetics of the hero can be easily tinkered with to fit the structure of the hero (something that is not always true the other way around). We have to make users aware of this, so as to prevent people turning down on a hero just because it has mediocre icons or background story.

Certainly, what I've posted above does not refer to the actual readability and organized layout of the thread (something that should always be considered), specially since the later is one of the most important aspects when it comes to users deciding whether to read a suggestion or not.

[crazy sheep]

I guess you're right on the cosmetics. That's all for now then.

[Ramodkk]

Awesome guide dude!

Originally Posted by tHe silent H

you have missed one role and that is pusher)yes it is usauly combined with other roles mainly supporter) and ther are two type of pushing:
1- fast pushing with summons dishing and absorbing damage( Furion, Brood Mother etc)
2- turtling pushing this nvolves a healer hero, who pushes with a wave then waits for the next and healing oneself/maybe creeps. pushing should be included in primary roles as you cannot win effectively if all you do is gank gank gank, farm farm farm.

Pushing? That's just a task within a role, not really a role itself. The way I see it, these are the main roles and the minor/optional tasks for each.

- Carry (Pushing, Hero-Killing, Winning Game) [Most of the time need to farm a lot]
- Tank (Tanking, Jungling) [Usually STR based]
- Support (Nuking, Pushing, Healing, Warding) [Usually healers with team buffs]
- Ganker (Hero-Killing, Jungling, Nuking) [Most of the time item independent]

[triangle]

I would look at it slightly differently Ramomar. You're right when you say pushing isn't a role in itself, but I don't think it's a subsidiary role of a support hero.

I think it' more like this.

Primary Roles:

- Carry
- Tank
- Support
- Damage per Second
- Disable

Secondary Roles:

- Pushing
- Ganking
- Jungling
- Nuking
- Healing
- Warding
- Defending

Probably some others under secondary as well. The point is however, that every hero has at least 1 primary role, and a couple (sometimes more) secondary roles.