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Old 12-07-2011, 04:15 AM   #81
EricJLima
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Default Terrorblade Feedback


I want to just reply again after reading some responses. I don't think that everyone who calls him OP is correct. It depends on what you mean OP is.

If you mean OP is being an instant pick every game, then that title will definitely go to heroes like Earthshaker, AA, S.Demon, etc.

If you mean OP is just simply being a carry hero who is capable of getting lots of kills, then there are other characters who can do that as well, if not better (syllabear, lycan).

So, I don't understand why everyone calls him OP, when he is outclassed in many ways.
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:20 AM   #82
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

I know this is not related with this topic, But can u ice frog do topic with dota 6.73 where will shown new heroes, screenshots and other new stuff,skills etc. Please
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:18 AM   #83
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Alright I could write an essay, but I'll keep it short

-He needed a passive ability, so Zeal was a good call, but it overall lacks appeal and is 'boring'.
-I would honestly replace reflection with the previous Soul Steal, but nerf soul steal's hp/sec, and give it an additional slow effect.
-Sunder and Metamorphosis is all good imo.

Also, on a side note, he's no longer befitting of the title "Soul Keeper" with his current arsenal.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:40 AM   #84
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

I like the new version of Tb, but one might consider adjusting the values of bonus attack/ hp regen/ bonus hp/agi gain ..etc.. like how slardar was done previously.
but he is perfect now. I only fear naga siren when I play TB xD.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:51 PM   #85
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

1. Too much damage in very early game (100 dmg in lvl 7 when he use meta...) with VERY fast AS.

2. Low hp. Glass Cannon

He is not bad, just need some balance. Nerf Zeal IAS, HP regen and Meta dmg, add some HP during Meta and he is fine.
And i think Reflection mana cost is too low. 100 - 125 looks much better for me.
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Last edited by Faelivri; 12-07-2011 at 07:08 PM.
Old 12-07-2011, 08:03 PM   #86
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxerth View Post
The new TB is good, but most people (including me) will say he's a bit OP. Probably due to the new Metamorphosis.

Imo Soul Drain was one of the best skills and the skill that made TB unique considering that it was like a walking Pugna, he could heal his team and combine it with Sunder.
When he a soul drain, there was a million threads qq-ing about it.
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:28 PM   #87
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Well, i have never been a fan of terrorblade, however:

~the current one skillset is terribly random
~don't really like him as the next auto-attacker
~Meta has never been interesting skill

=> He should be more a caster with the concept of "the lord of life and death" with his ultimate. Life Drain is fitting. Delaying taken damage?Unlimitted opportunities, everything, but not next hard-carry with auto-attack gameplay...
Change reflect into passive dmg source:
-creates illusion whenever kills unit or nearby hero dies (attacking the TB' target)
-each attack creates 1 illusion of target following... target. TB is partially stealing enemy soul turning it against the body.
Using enemy illusions as the main physical damage output is quite interesting idea.
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Last edited by Nevfigalo; 12-07-2011 at 08:45 PM.
Old 12-07-2011, 08:34 PM   #88
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

This

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unan1mous View Post
Alright I could write an essay, but I'll keep it short

-He needed a passive ability, so Zeal was a good call, but it overall lacks appeal and is 'boring'.
-I would honestly replace reflection with the previous Soul Steal, but nerf soul steal's hp/sec, and give it an additional slow effect.
-Sunder and Metamorphosis is all good imo.

Also, on a side note, he's no longer befitting of the title "Soul Keeper" with his current arsenal.

Just some other things

-One of the problems of soulsteal was that it revealed the true terrorblade;
-I dont find Zeal boring, but it doesnt synergizes with illusions and its a bit overpowered;
-Old illusions messed the chasing and ganking processes, if u did not cast then before anything happenned;
-Old illusions didnt had the effect of confusing the enemies, you could easily tell who was the true one;
-New illusions still dont have the confusion effect;
-New illusions' damage is negligible. With new skill set, players tend to buy items that give raw power instead of stats.


What i would like to see in terror

It's a compilation of things previously said:
-Take out reflection, and put back in soulsteal, hp/sec nerf, slow effect;
-Zeal should be more focused on hp regen in early levels, and give a greater boost of IAS in the later ones;

In my opinion, remove illusions from meta, the damage and ranged atack buff is already enough.

Suggestion for Sunder

As previously said, sunder doesnt synergizes with meta, cuz of its range. Mb adding a charging effect, like Huskar's current ulti and greatly nerf the hp% swap. Also, it would be perfect if he creates illusions after charging a hero(without confusion effect), would be much more ganker oriented. Or mb had this as a septer upgrade.

Overall, its a much more powerfull skill set, so it would need a great deal of balance. Also would be a reason to let him be the glass cannon he is.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:30 PM   #89
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricJLima View Post
I want to just reply again after reading some responses. I don't think that everyone who calls him OP is correct. It depends on what you mean OP is.

If you mean OP is being an instant pick every game, then that title will definitely go to heroes like Earthshaker, AA, S.Demon, etc.

If you mean OP is just simply being a carry hero who is capable of getting lots of kills, then there are other characters who can do that as well, if not better (syllabear, lycan).

So, I don't understand why everyone calls him OP, when he is outclassed in many ways.
Definitely OP!
Allow him in cm mode and see what happens.
My guess is he'll rape any other carry in the competitive scene.
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:40 PM   #90
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

i liked the original terrorblade. the whole image + sunder thing could just allow for so much mindgames with some more attention.

problem with that was obviously that he would just farm up, never level soulsteal because it would become useless later and either roll everyone or completely fail.
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:05 PM   #91
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

I like him as a carry. I don't think his soul steal fit him very well - both conceptually, and gameplay-wise, given his slow casting time, it was really clunky at times, and could be cancelled too easily simply if the enemy ran into fog.

Right now I feel TB needs more starting STR and maybe higher base movement speed. His zeal right now is boring, so I suggest turn at least the life regeneration part of it(maybe attackspeed too) into something more interesting, like a steady lifesteal regardless of damage done as suggested by me here a long time ago.
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:48 AM   #92
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

old tb conjure image is really useful for mind games and such. With the current tb, you cant do that
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Old 12-10-2011, 08:30 AM   #93
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Can't really say. As overall both aren't my favourites. The first have not much of an interesting skill which suits an AGI whereas the current have unthemic skills which does not give Terrorblade the rights to be granted soul keeper.
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Old 12-10-2011, 05:02 PM   #94
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

He's crappy one sided glass cannon pubstomper.

He always was a useless hero and the only thing I like about him is his drain life abilities.Nothing more.
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:09 PM   #95
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

To be honest I have mixed feelings with the new TB. Even though I liked the changes, it makes him more dependent on his metamorphosis skill and farm. Usually farms manta or sny to be effective.

Skills:

1. Zeal
The 1st thing that I liked in the changes. Even though it only boosts the dps of TB, it also gives the IAS to illusions. It also helps in farming.

2. Metamorphosis
Powerful, but makes him weak during cooldowns and the time it takes for the illusions to appear makes him vulnerable to attacks. The increased damage is nice, synergistic with illusions but makes him weak against blade mail as it returns everything to the original.
The enemy can easily pinpoint which is the real TB among the illusions if he casts it in front of them, unlike manta.

3. Reflection
A weaker version of haunt, has a long cast backswing and only last for a while.

4. Sunder
Not really a fan of this skill to begin with because of the melee cast range.

Weakness of newer TB:
Blade Mail and ghost scepter
Late game skills
Cast backswing, by the time TB casts reflection, even with animation cancelling and the slow, the enemy will be far enough to escape his massive dps.
Relies too much on illusions and metamorphosis

Strengths:
Metamorphosis base damage, combined with illusions
IAS from Zeal
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Last edited by osteon0812; 12-10-2011 at 06:21 PM.
Old 12-11-2011, 12:37 AM   #96
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Some pointers I feel are important:

Basically, I like the skill concept of the current TB.
Quote:
Zeal(passive)
to relieve the burden of having all 4 active skills
to augment his carry role and relieving the item dependence(HP regen and IAS items) somewhat

Reflection(active)
to participate in early game and ganking
to increase the dynamics of TB gameplay because the old style of meta+images was criticized as being too "auto-attack", "point and click", "focused more on ricing farming playstyle"

Metamorphosis(active)
I have always dreamed of conjure image and meta being combined into 1 spell. Thank you Icefrog and team for making this a reality. It made no sense for them to be independent skills being more often than not image+meta are used in tandem.

Sunder(active)
This is one of the very sentimental things that define the hero. Remove it and TB becomes another hero who shares the same model.
But don't like the scaling of skills for the current TB.
The skill concept and ideas are all good on paper but I didn't like how the final product came into play. The implementation was careless. The execution was poor.
Quote:
Reflection(active)
Sorry but I don't think aiming and placing an AOE was a good idea.
My suggestion is to mix in a bit of the old Soul Steal.
When activated, an AOE would be set up around Terrorblade. Lasts for 5 seconds.
Enemy heroes within 600 range would have their own illusions beating upon them unless they exit the 600 radius of effect.
More reflections than the current but I'd have the reflect-images deal less damage. They were not meant to kill but to distract. The whole ganking skill's focus is on the slow.
Only TB can walk through these illusions. They cannot block him.

Metamorphosis(active)
I would like to see this skill rebalanced such that only 1 skill point early on is sufficient.
Because I want to see more Reflection usage. And Zeal is also required early on to help in farming.
The old playstyle of TB would see players only leveling 1 point in meta and going stats/images. Meta was meant to be pumped lategame.
I don't understand why the reflection images seem more powerful. This is clearly an example of wrong emphasis. These meta images were meant to kill, not the reflection images so why are they weaker?
TB can walk through his own illusions.

Sunder(active)
Icefrog and team, here I suggest either of 2 approaches (A or B).
A)
Either keep the range short, making this skill difficult to use so it is skilled later when TB's HP is higher and it is safer to use. Also a weak Sunder is a reason to keep the other 3 skills strong.
B)
Or weaken the other 3 skills so we have a non-OP and lousier TB but improved cast range and usefulness of Sunder.
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Last edited by Thiede; 12-11-2011 at 01:42 AM.
Old 12-11-2011, 01:12 PM   #97
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

For me TB is too much OP
zael is too op skill,he got free RoH and hyperstone on 7 lvl,also his summons attack little too much.For me replace in zael attack speed or regeneration something another.For example made something like krobelus have withcraft with zael-upg skills and passively incrase asp by 40% on 4 lvl.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:35 PM   #98
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Sunder can't be changed. It's his trademark skill. Without sunder, images and metamorphosis, there's no terrorblade.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:46 AM   #99
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

I prefer the old tb than the new. My reason are that the new tb he requires less skill to play, and that it is so op that it lacks its thrill. I suggest changing back to it's original skill set,but buff it.

Refraction should be change to soul steal in my opinion, as it does not synchronize with his other skill and acts like a late game nuke, that another int-hero could potentially have.

My opinion of Soul Steal is that it loses it's effect during the late game and changing it from 80 hp/sec to 60hp/sec + 1-2%of maxhp will solve it. Some people said that he needs a slow, so I thought similar to puck's ulti but instead the enemy gets a slow when the chain is broken.

Zeal + Meta -> illusion+Meta
Zeal is boring and the new Meta feels like two skill that restricts it's uses.

The illusion in the other hand, can be used to farm, push and scout and act as a better damage dealer. With radiance it can jungle with just the illusion. I suggest a sub ability to allowing him to switch places with the illusion which will creates a semi-escape skill.

The old Meta is the only weak skill as it provides ranged, and that is not even a skill for some heroes. The additional hp boost has little effect. So I suggest a "unique" orb effect will benefit him, as I rarely use diffusal blade for him and only use life-steal at the very late late game.
Switch soul is good the way it is.
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Last edited by jeremiahtan27; 12-12-2011 at 04:03 AM.
Old 12-12-2011, 04:32 AM   #100
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

I never used to pick him before ( and to be frank never even saw pubs/competitive dota even made use of him) since he was pretty useless in team fights and his job was only to farm till he can tank and eat all the enemy due to his items . I can pick other carries like mortred/ faceless void or slithice since they will still hold a better late game pottential then a farmed terrorblade

But now he is more user friendly and way more fun to play. and he is now often seen in pubs aswell. He might jsut need a little tweaks to balance him down.
i would never like to see the old terrorblade come back since he will b sitting only in hero pool and never made good use of.
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:40 AM   #101
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

I like the current one:
1. Great AoE slow and invulnerable illusions to harass enemies.
2. Great passive skill that give a little tank stats and a great attack speed.
3. More useful in many games, can be a pusher, can be a hard carry and also can be a good supporter with his Reflection.
4. Metamorphosis gives free images, unlike the old one which need to spam many keys in order make Terrorblade hardcore.

Things that can be improve:
1. As for Zeal, replace his HP regeneration into Lifesteal seems useful. And Lifesteal is based on the old one since many players including my friends complaint that Terrorblade doesn't have Lifesteal currently and that makes him weak.
2. Improve his tank stats, he is extremely weak towards great nukers like Zeus and Lich. Adding a little magic resistance might help. A single normal nuking skill on him even in late games with luxury items, he will still receive a painful damage.
3. Lower his Metamorphosis illusions' damage and longer the illusions lasting time.
4. I kinda like the Reflection concept but maybe you could make the Reflection hits the unit will steal some HP for Terrorblade, since he is also design to counter Anti-Mage and Anti-Mage is also designed to counter him.
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Old 12-12-2011, 01:25 PM   #102
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Tbh, I like neither one very much. First one was a jumbled up mess of pretty unsynergetic abilities. Now the synergy is here, but also way too strong. A level 9 TB has the DPS of a level 16 Traxex because of Zeal/Meta (and meta is too strong on level 1 imo, and Zeal is bland and uninspired). What would be really cool would be if you kept his ult (which is his only really cool skill), and made him focused on HP manipulation or something like that.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:22 PM   #103
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Idea!
make zeal a static lifesteal with IAS

by lifesteal i mean it heals him for 10/20/30/40(numbers can be changed) every time he attacks
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:44 PM   #104
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

I want to add an interesting way of pubing with tb: I usually dont take any kind of healing with me, only stat boosting items and max out meta and zeal. The regen from zeal is usually enough. Then I farm a demon edge at about 8~9 minutes and some boots by the 10th minute. After that terror blade will be a power demon and will even eat tanks alive. I have played about 20 games or so with such a TB. Works wonders when you are alone and you trust your farming skills.
Just love him the way he is now. Didnt like the old one much.
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:09 AM   #105
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Njaard View Post
Tbh, I like neither one very much. First one was a jumbled up mess of pretty unsynergetic abilities. Now the synergy is here, but also way too strong. A level 9 TB has the DPS of a level 16 Traxex because of Zeal/Meta (and meta is too strong on level 1 imo, and Zeal is bland and uninspired). What would be really cool would be if you kept his ult (which is his only really cool skill), and made him focused on HP manipulation or something like that.
This.

The current is okay, but I dislike Zeal. Once he gets his items, he will be virtually unstopabble when pushing, especially with Manta + Metamorphosis. Reflection is a useful AoE slow, and can be very scary with a stunner/disabler on your side. Both old and new Terrorblades have superb pushing ability, but are very item dependent, and they still have virtually the same play style, with the exception of Soul Steal/Reflection. I feel kind of bad wanting to change Metamorphosis, because it has such an cool animation, but he needs a remake badly. Something that would solidify his title as a "Soul Keeper", because IMO, Shadow Fiend keeps more souls than Soul Keeper does. Terrorblade should be ashamed of himself.
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:42 AM   #106
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Current one.

1. Lvlup Metamorphosis
2. Buy Manta
3. Use Metamorphosis
4. Use Manta

OMG, 5 Imba ranged Terrorblade, you hacked, QQ.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:22 AM   #107
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

i like the reflection but i hate the imba zeal.
but the others are good.
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:26 PM   #108
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Sup Ice,

Overall, I like the new TB better. I don't think he's op because three nukes kill him, but he can fight back with his high physical dmg output; however, I do miss Soul Steal since it was a classic and nostalgic spell to use when playing TB. Especially the remade one where he can move with the hp-drain. That was hilarious and a huge improvement.

But I like that this new TB ganks better with Reflection and his new Meta. It would be nice to see that moving Soul Steal spell replace Zeal. TB with Reflect, Soul Steal, new Meta, and Sunder would be so cool. The only problem is the he would have 4 actives, but I dont care. It would be tight.

TB would be improved and have more of the nostalgic feel to him. Relatively new players can't appreciate the old heroes.

O yes, and new Meta is fine. What makes it op is that Zeal is transferred over to the illusions 2. However, if we kick out Zeal for unchanneling Soul Steal, problem fixed while keepin TB playable, yes?
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:58 PM   #109
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

I like the new TB it's more fun to play with.
1. Reflection - he badly needs this skill to catch up for the kill and troll foes in clashes.
2. Zeal - With no opponents ganks, you can easily farm your way fast to the top. Great skill IMO. It's more like a Hyperstone & Ring of Health for free early game.
3. Metamorphosis - I sorta like the HP gain before when you transform into Imba demon- mode. But oh well, I guess all things should deserve for a change. HP isn't really a problem now because of his core items (S&Y, Manta, Butterfly) lets him survive like a boss.
4. Sunder - If you think this skill is stupid and weak then you're VERY wrong. It is one of the greatest skills in DotA. No HP? Sunder your foe, your own illusion and for best trolling Sunder your allies. lol

Overall for me - The remake was great, much more fun to play and a BEAST :P


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Last edited by fr0stcr1ms0n; 12-14-2011 at 12:16 AM.
Old 12-14-2011, 01:14 AM   #110
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

(I am registering just to answer here, I care about TB so much )
I hate the new Terrorblade. He is, simply put, too easy to play; and I don't mean too strong, as many others already pointed out you can still nuke him down due to his squishiness, and he if you intiate on him properly there is no way he can make it out alive.
The point is, playing TB is no longer fun and challenging as it once was. Now you can simply go afk in forest and farm without even any need to use spells due to Zeal, and to me that is simply...stupid. Qb + stout + tango, you can farm for pretty much all the time the enemy team gives you, then come out with some ridiculously strong spells and be like "lolz i win".
I think the old tb was way more balanced and FUN to play: jungling required micro (if going the illusion route) and mana management, his skillbuild could vary a lot, but still when the time came (25-30 minutes onward) he was very strong (in fact he was the only hero who could keep 2 illusions 95% of the time). I played countless games with the old TB and it was my favourite hero, when I saw the changelog I almost wanted to cry.
Also, the hero was much more difficult to play properly, which made me love him even more: it is much more fun owning with an invoker or a dark seer (powerful but complicated heroes) than with a right clicking machine.
So my last thought is: if you want to turn TB into a pubstomping dpser, then leave him as he is now; if you want to make him a hard but highly rewarding to play hero, bring back my old love!
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:12 PM   #111
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

zeal must change, like this
http://www.playdota.com/forums/59535...ttle-buff-str/
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Old 12-14-2011, 07:22 PM   #112
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt'n Gunny View Post
I like parts of him now, say the Metamorphosis thing, although he lost his strong illusions. His zeal, however, feels like just some placeholder, and I would love to see soul steal back. It was removed just when it became useful.
Yeah... !
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:29 PM   #113
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

I've found the new TB to be a bit of a mixed bag. On one hand, I like his leap forward to becoming a midgame illusion hero, and I like the combination of Metamorph with the images.

On the other hand though, his illusions do feel alot more "common" than they used to. The previous version were exceptionally strong, long lasting ones that could stand toe to toe with lesser heroes in the later stages of the game, and gave a much stronger sense of intimidation and of those images actually being lesser forms of the hero himself, instead of simple illusions. Now though, they're simply "short, fragile burst dps" like Manta, Slith and Nessaj's skills.

Secondly, Soul Steal was a simply fantastic ability since it got remade. I really wish I could see it again.

Third, and this is more about thematics than actual gameplay, is that he's no longer a Soul Keeper. Sunder and Reflection aside, he has very little to do with souls or lifeforce, and even Reflection is pretty feeble in that respect. One thing I liked about his previous illusions, like I've already mentioned, is that they felt far more individual than other, Mirror Image based illusions. I always envisaged them as fragmented parts of his own soul, rather than actual illusions.

On the note of a Soul Keeper theme, I would rather Terrorblade lost that completely, and something else thought up for him. I see a Soul Keeper as a manipulator of life force, and that's probably a concept that's best built from the ground up rather than adjusted from a hero that no longer fits it. This suggestion has Soul Split, which I think is an excellent skill to represent that kind of hero, and could easily be used to create an entirely new Soul Keeper using that, Terrorblade's previous Soul Steal, and Sunder.

Of course, that would mean Terrorblade loses his current ultimate, but I don't really see how it fits him very much any more anyway. He could probably manage something much more suited to his current style.
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:43 PM   #114
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

The original Terrorblade (before any remakes) was boring for me. The first remake was rather interesting and made him a bit more useful. However, personally, I feel the current version makes him the best he is capable of so far. The IAS aura working with his illusions works especially well, since now he has some synergy with his skills, whereas before there wasn't that much.
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:19 AM   #115
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Here I am!

Old SK had one problem imo, and that was the fact that he didn't have any type of slow/disable which he needed just like people need air!
Reason for that is mostly because he was almost totally useless in early game, and some disable/slow would fix that.

Reflection fixes that and kinda sticks to the soul theme, but I do think it could use a twist or two (that Soul Split idea from the link provided by Monsterlord is a great start - maybe some mix of Reflection and Soul Split could be a winning combination).
So, in case he gets a remake in the future, I think he should keep this skill.

That aside, two things I loved the most about old SK were that he was a great HP manipulator (awesome concept which is pretty original and very effective if done well) and his reliable illusions.

His illusions were so sweet not because they were powerful (even though that did help ), but mainly because you didn't have to wait for cooldown and could always have at least one of them with you.
This means that he can almost never get caught of guard and doesn't need to wait for cooldowns, meaning that he can continue to stay active as long as he is alive or wants to - something NS and SK can't brag about!
On top of that, he had that sweet, sweet Soul Steal which would help him survive and would allow him to get his HP up really quick in case he needed to.
This combo made him quite a threat.
That did made him kinda mana heavy hero, but with good farm, that problem can be taken care of without big troubles.

His ultimate is also pretty damn awesome.
Only issue I have with it is range of the spell, but that's nothing a good ASU can't fix.

Last, but not least, there is Metamorphosis (I know I talked about the skills in a retarded order, but it simply came to me that way).
This skill used to take care of his remaining flaws; HP and range.

Now, even though current SK is kinda effective, he is more meh actually.
For starters, he requires way less skill to be used.
He also lost a lot of originality (his illusions are just like Manta/NS/CK, but with Meta crammed in), which leads me to Zeal.

Not only this skill is simply bland and unoriginal, it is actually not even that good!
That HP regeneration helps at start while laning (but than again, so did Soul Steal) while IAS bonus is kinda unnecessary.
This is hero with already below average BAT and above average agility, meaning that AS and DMG are not that big of an issues for him.
Almost all items which are made for him also give ether agility, damage or IAS (ie. PT, S&Y, Manta, Skadi, Butterfly).
It's kinda like replacing Meat Hook with a passive which gives extra 300 HP or so.
Simply useless when compared to what he has lost.

Overall, old SK was not perfect and needed a remake.
Still, his current form is still crappy and he needs an another remake imo.


To sum it up...
Reflect could maybe use a tweak here and there (combining it with Soul Split from the link), but it's overall a pretty damn good skill and there are other priorities which should be thought about.

I think that Zeal needs to go since it's really redundant and having Soul Steal replace it would be really great.

His ultimate is fine as it is, but it could use an ASU to fix it's main issue - the range.
Other than that, it's a great skill.

Lastly, I think that somehow his old versions of Illusions and Metamorphosis should return.
I know that in total he would have 5 skills then (Reflection, Soul Steal, Conjure Illusions, Metamorphosis and Sunder), but I think that they can be crammed together into 4 without SK having to suffer (I know I kinda complained about current Meta being just two skills crammed together, but that's mainly because it was badly executed imo).

Well, it's 2:20am here, so some of these things could end up sounding wrong, but I'll come back tomorrow and will fix everything stupid.

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Old 12-15-2011, 11:47 AM   #116
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Unpopular opinion here, but I would say that Zeal actually has it's place. Yes, the straight regen may be boring, but that can be fixed quite easily. One recurring suggestion I see is to give the skill a straight hp heal per attack, perhaps something like 8/16/24/32. It's a unique kind of lifesteal, and one that synergises with the second half of the skill.

Speaking of which, it's that +as that makes the skill is actually more original than it seems. It offers increased attack speed to both him and his illusions, which is something nobody else has access to. Agility is rather expensive, so it's not often you see illusions attacking at high speeds, and never at the same rate as TB.

Overall, I actually really like Zeal. I just think it's a shame that Soul Steal had to go to make room for it, they're both equally clever skills. With a little tweak to make the regen slightly different, and possibly compatible with his illusions, I can see it going a long way to replacing SS, and to making his illusions the feared force they used to be.

People would do well to remember that SS itself used to be a terrible skill, and that it's quite unfair to compare one that was carefully refined to one that's still very new. Zeal has just as much potential as the old channeling Soul Steal, especially if it can boost illusion regen with a "lifesteal" like I've just mentioned.

Finally, to return to my earlier point of TB no longer fitting his Soul Keeper title, I feel like more focus should be placed on his role as Magina's dark twin. After a little brainstorming, I found that something simple such as "Terrorblade the Fallen" brings that out nicely, or perhaps give him a real name and keep Terrorblade as his title.
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Old 12-15-2011, 06:00 PM   #117
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

more fun after the remake
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:15 PM   #118
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Just love the new TB..
He's a Super Glass Cannon now!
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:59 PM   #119
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

The old terrorblade was more different due to him having the strongest non-uimages.

The new terrorblade still has the advantage of one of the few free ranged images. But his ulti seems way more since he was given zeal. The skill is okayish, but soul steal has a better set of synergy on TB. I feel like it's just a plain boost/passive where soul steal was somewhat more entertaining. perhaps passivly increase the ias/regen on skilling either metamorphosis or conjure image would be better. Since soul steal had some synergy with sunder, and sunder had some synergy on the wide variety of images.

His new slow + damage skill did improve TB, however plain bonus ms actually did a tad more for him. It feels a bit off for me.

The thing is TB had a niche, but currently he became a weaker version of naga and pl with a bit more tanky images early but he brings a lot less to his team.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:28 AM   #120
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Default Re: Terrorblade Feedback

Old TB was worse in gameplay and synergy wise but was better in simplicity and theme.

New TB is better in gameplay and synergy but worse in simplicity and theme.

Depends on which parts people appreciate but I appreciate simplicity and theme first because gameplay and synergy can be improved easier than the simplicity and/or theme.

Old TB definitely need a slow and better teamfight potential (it took too much time to Meta + Conjure + Conjure).

I don't have any problem in Meta and Conjure merging (though don't really like it as well. I'd prefer buff it both with Conjure becomes longer CD skills but can spawn multiple illusions) but kinda meh on Reflection and Zeal.

IMO, Soul Steal should remain with different (the HP absorbing should remain IMO) / additional mechanics (slow/stun should be added) and Zeal, it's simply out of place.

I'd prefer either of these kind of remakes

1. Bring back old TB. Buff Metamorphosis' bonus, make Conjure Image last almost same as Metamorphosis but much stronger and can spawn multiple illusions at once. And for last, make Soul Steal stronger at early game (perhaps weaker at mid-late) to give lane presence. Also give it slow/stun. Or, refer to (*)

2. Keep the new TB. Change the Metamorphosis bonus to old HP bonus (IMO, this was better. Also BAT change is much better IMO if want DPS increase). Full remake on Zeal and/or partial/full remake on Reflection. Refer to (*) as well.

Several Soul Steal / Reflection / Zeal remake in mind. The slow/stun or additional effect could be added (esp slow)

1. Immolation-type HP stealing. I think this one is pretty much clear. Could be Active / Passive. Could have large AoE / small AoE. This will increase the lane survivability and/or creeping.

2. Old Visage's Soul Assumption-like skill. The one that was Orb-walking. But probably in TB's case, we make it an active nuke that grants TB HP or HP regen with additional stats bonus or sth every time it kills (or if the target dies in 2 seconds like Broodmother's 1st skill). It fits good in the Soul Keeper's theme, solve the hard laning issue (you have spammable, low mana cost, low cd nuke to get creeps => can farm from safe distance). We could make it an AoE or line-damage skill instead of single target as well.

3. Attack modifying skill (not necessarily orb effect or buff placer) that absorbs HP. We could make it more unique like "10% chance to absorb 100 HP from opponent" or "Place a buff on opponent where each buff will increase your attack damage by 10 and grants you 5% (or perhaps fix number) lifesteal."
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