[Item Suggestion] Vampiric Orb

[okrane]

Important Remark: Numbers in the item description are not final. If you believe the numbers are too low/high post below with your reasoning and I will adjust them


The idea behind the item

The item I am suggesting is aimed at intelligence heroes with large mana pools in the end game. Basically the first aim of the item is to provide a good survivability item for intelligence heroes that can afford it, comparable to the effects of big health pools for stregth stacking strength heroes, as well as high armor, life stealing agility carries.

The second use for this item, is to give a purpose to the huge mana pools of well farmed intelligence heroes, which, in the end-game lose the need for mana, making that extra intelligence a less worthy stat. The idea is to be able to trade all that extra mana back into survivability.

This can become a core item on intelligence carries such as Silencer, Destroyer, Storm Spirit, however, it remains mostly a secondary item for such heroes as the raw stats it adds are pretty poor for quite a steep cost.

The final aim of the item is to give the opportunity, of heavy snowballing nukers to become effective carries for the team, by adding them a good chunk of survivability in battle.

Without further ado, here it is:

Vampiric Orb

5200

Bought From :
Arcane Sanctum

An orb used in most obscure rituals performed by the vampiric cult of the Terathion swamp. It is said that the orb is capable of transforming magical energies into vitality for the one that unlocks its secret.

Passive: Vampiric Affinity

• When dealing any non-physical damage, you recover health based on the damage dealt.
• Health recovered is equal to 10% / 15% / 20% of damage dealt.

Toggled Active: Blood Pact

• Activate the orb to continually consume mana to increase your health regeneration.
• Mana Cost: 75/100/125 mana per second
• Health Regeneration: 45/70/100 HP per second.
• Formula: [(2.5*ItemLvl^2)+(17.5*ItemLvl)+25]

Alternative Icons


Explanations:

• Non-Physical Damage means exactly that: all damage that isnt an autoattack or a physical ability. This includes magical (for most spells) or pure damage (such as Destroyer's and Silencer's orbs)
• The stats the item adds are quite small for a carry-type hero. Only 300 mana, no intellect so no damage, no mana regeneration or other kind of utility. So this item is not exactly a rush-to item.
  
• Because its not a rush to item, I expect the stats to be balanced as to rushing it does not increase the viability of mid-game nukers. The vampiric spell attacks can prove problematic if gotten early. However, given that this item adds minor survivability early on (i.e. no strenth, no health, only a short regen that cannot be sustained because of the low mana pool) I aim this item to be ignored by most nukers early-mid game.
  
• Once a caster carry, or snowballing nuker, has built a sufficiently large mana pool (as in any combo of Scythe-Orchid-Shiva-Bloodstone-Euls etc) he will have a largely sufficient mana pool to spam all his spells and still have a lot to spare.
  
• This is where this item comes in as the equivalent of Satanic for intelligence heroes, giving them a good boost of in-combat regen in order to keep up with the strong Agility or Strength carries.
  
• As a special mention, it can become a very good "lifesteal and survivability" on Destroyer and Silencer due to their huge mana pool and pure damage.
  

Notable Ideas from the Thread

• Disable the Active Skill while Disabled.
• Add some sort of Limitation to the passive heal coming from AoE damaging Spells
  • Reduce the percentage only for AoE spells.
  • Reduce the percentage of the heal the more enemies it hits: i.e first heals 20%, second 10% third 5% and so on.
  • Reduce the non-hero damage contribution to the healing. i.e. damaging an enemy hero heals you for 20%, damaging enemy creep or neutral 5%
  • put a cap to the maximum enemies the effect can trigger for one spell.
• Passive is Uncode-able
  • Make it work like Naix Open Wounds
  • Make the heal dependant on the Mana Cost of the Spell
  • Dota 2 won't have this problem
• The passive should not heal you for damage you do to yourself.

FAQ

What about Destroyer and Silencer orb attacks? Will they get healed through Vampiric Affinity using those orb attacks?

Yes. The item as I have conceived it initially is to give them a life leech from those pure damage attacks. Keep in mind, only the pure damage part would get the healing done, not the physical part of the attack. That is, if Silencer deals 40 extra pure damage from his orb, he will heal 20% * 40 = 8 health per hit from this.

Now if this proves to be too strong, I don't have any issue with making it work only on abilities. It is not the core intent of the item.

This will be soooo overpowered on Obsidian Destroyer!

Short Answer: Theorycraft post on page 2: http://www.playdota.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=23.
Conclusion is, the healing from the Passive of the Item in conjunction with the Orb is not overwhelming. The huge autoattack damage of OD has a good part of Physical Damage which won't contribute to the healing from the item.

Long Answer: You have to also count in the opportunity cost of spending all that gold. I mean sure, the healing power is potent, but the item doesn't bring much more than that. No hex on demand like Scythe, no silence on demand like Orchid, no armor and aoe frost blast like Shiva also no intellect to boost the autoattack damage.

So while on paper it might seem that a fed destroyer with 4k mana and Vampiric Orb is unstoppable, fact is that maybe buying that Scythe of Vyse instead of the Vampiric Orb would make him even more unstoppable.

Also, this item won't help his early game, neither the fact that he can still be bursted down or CC-ed.


Change List

- 17/12/2011 Tweaked the Blood Pact ability in respect to the suggestion of DrQwertySilence on the first page. (Waiting for more input)
From 75 flat mana cost and 50/75/100 regen to 75/100/125 mana and 45 / 75 / 100 regen.

- 17/12/2011 Initially Posted the item suggestion.

[chanhalzkie]

Just Like Morphling's Morph Skill..
But That's Way Too Much..
Reduce It To 10/20/30

But I Like It

[Hugaw]

woaw.... cool item for heavy spell casters.. and tweak the numbers or mechanics on that matter on bloodpact, special mention to OD (thereisnospoon guy) you dont want a constant 100hp/second on OD do we?

[ILLUSTRIKE]

WOAH....very very awesome items for my beloved fragile int heroes!! just tweak some numbers and it will be ok!!

[DrQwertySilence]

A really interesting item.
Vampiric Affinity: Nice ability, I don't see problems with the numbers here.

Blood Pact: Also a good ability, but for the mana conversion I prefer a factor of 0.6/0.7/0.8 of the mana wasted per second, because int heroes generally have more mana that HP. I mean, lemme do a remake:

Toggled Active: Blood Pact

• Activate the orb to continually consume mana to increase your health regeneration.
• Mana Cost: 75/100/125 mana per second
• Health Regeneration: 45/70/100 HP per second.
• Formula: [(50+25*ItemLvl)*(0.5+0.1*ItemLvl)] => [(2.5*ItemLvl^2)+(17.5*ItemLvl)+25]

Also, Icon fixed:

T-Up anyway, because I like Int-Hero-Carries and invoker go to get a big smile. <.<

[okrane]

Thanks for the replies guys. I do agree that 100hp per second is very high, especially on heroes like destroyer who will be able to sustain it indefinitely.

Thing is I dont know if I should nerf it by lowering the healing part or by increasing the mana cost. Lowering the healing too much would render it too weak in combat, but increasing the mana cost would be a more severe nerf to heroes without an innate strong mana recovery skill.

Oh well, nerfed the healing by half for now.

EDIT:

I actually love the idea above. Using that instead.
Thanks.

[alexjz]

Like it, T-up

[SB.Ale]

Cool iten =]

[viniz0r]

nice

[okrane]

any more constructive feedback?

[DrQwertySilence]

What about mana bonus per level, something like +25 or +50:

[250+X*ItemLvl]

Lvl1:275~300
Lvl2:300~350
Lvl3:325~400

But dunno really.

[Pr3zarVon1k]

just awesome

[D' Eradicated]

T-Up... Definitely good for nukers... A must-have...

[gheox]

yeah nice item , show it to icefrog

[okrane]

Originally Posted by gheox

yeah nice item , show it to icefrog

Any particular way to do that? Or is it just leaving it here on the forums and hoping it gets noticed?

[Dodsferd]

No need at all.

[DrQwertySilence]

Originally Posted by Dodsferd

No need at all.

I think you aren't needed at all. Better quality posts please.

[MaxQuest]

T-Up, in case it will really be an orb effect.
T-Down otherwise, since it will be too strong on OD, Silencer and akin.

[DrQwertySilence]

MaxQuest: Don't work on OD and Silencer, read the notes.

Non-Physical Damage means exactly that: all damage that isnt an autoattack or a physical ability. This includes magical (for most spells) or pure damage (such as Destroyer's and Silencer's orbs)

A question, who is akin? D:

[MaxQuest]

Oh,.. I've missed that note, but have paid attention to the idea explanation (that's above the summary), were is stated: "This can become a core item on intelligence carries such as Silencer, Destroyer, Storm Spirit [...]", and this confused me..

This can become a core item on intelligence carries such as Silencer, Destroyer, Storm Spirit, however, it remains mostly a secondary item for such heroes as the raw stats it adds are pretty poor for quite a steep cost.

The final aim of the item is to give the opportunity, of heavy snowballing nukers to become effective carries for the team, by adding them a good chunk of survivability in battle.

P.S. "akin" is just a synonim to "similar", "analogous", "related")