[CONCEPT]An Early Carry-Oriented Item

[cezar_sl]

Warning!
This topic is not actually about the item, but about the concept behind it.

Current idea

Components		Price		Bonus
		500		+15 Attack Speed
		900		+ 10 Damage + 10 Attack Speed
		225		+ 32%(melee) or + 12%(ranged) bonus damage against non-hero units
		1625		+ 15 Damage + 30 Attack Speed +32%(melee) or +12%(ranged) bonus damage against non-hero units Dark Agility[Active]
		Arcanite Spear		Forged by the devious Dark Iron Dwarfs, the Arcanite Spear can increase its bearer's agility greatly. Dark Agility : Effect   + 20 Agility Duration   10 seconds Cooldown   35 seconds

Final numbers vary because they are not the point of the suggestion, but a mere guide line.
Please comment on the idea of an early-game carry item.
Details about the Ability :

• It's purpose is to make a bad carry (AGI no Nuke type) a little better in the first 10-15 minutes of the game.
• It should not give even greater bonuses other heroes who are innately better early game.
• It's focus should be hero combat, not farming.

[Trillianm]

Got some work to do there.
Not much brought to the table, it'd be nice if you at least gave a general idea for what sort of ability you're looking at there.

[cezar_sl]

The basic idea is to make an fairly cheap item for a carry, and the ability should be useful in a fight, but not for farming.
So a single target ability is what I'm looking for.

[Zirath]

You gotta be more specific. Are you thinking of a nuke or a slow or a disable? Its very hard to produce this without it being very similar to another item.

[Audacious]

So are you asking for a suggestion to a carry oriented passive or active for your item?

[cezar_sl]

I'm not against getting suggestions for my item, but that's not the point.
The point is to discuss the need / viability for such an item (early game carry item).

[king_james]

What? I don't think this item is finished. O.o

What do you mean Carry-Oriented Passive/Active?

[uo111]

The only items that are good for carries early are items that are used for farming.

An active that is good for a carry early, is WTFINSANE for anyone who isn't a late game carry early.

Btw, you have no idea how confusing the first post is atm.

[triangle]

This is a good idea. Granted, it is confusing as to what you are asking. Took me a while.

We can begin this by asking a very basic question. What makes a carry hero, a carry?

[Gazar-]

Just change the ingredients of midas to your proposed parts and there is your item you search for.

[triangle]

I have an idea, triggered by Gazar's comment. Why not something like Traxxex's old ultimate? Instakill a creep every 50 seconds, except for double bounty?

[cezar_sl]

Originally Posted by notveryclever

I have an idea, triggered by Gazar's comment. Why not something like Traxxex's old ultimate? Instakill a creep every 50 seconds, except for double bounty?

I don't want it to be farm oriented.

Just had an idea - Armlet Stile : Gains 35 AGI but looses 1 Armor / second (like Weave). -Armor effect ends when de-activated, but it has a cooldown.

[The Other Guy]

Early game carry heroes benefit more from farming and staying alive. We already have enough survivability items but carries being able to farm better is something your team will benefit from. That being said I think you should remove the recipe and make it combine with QB. Numbers I can leave up to other members, but insane last hitting granted by added damage and an improved QB effect and perhaps a cooldown on chopping trees could make this a very good item, damage, farming and juking wise.

[cezar_sl]

Originally Posted by The Other Guy

Early game carry heroes benefit more from farming and staying alive. We already have enough survivability items but carries being able to farm better is something your team will benefit from. That being said I think you should remove the recipe and make it combine with QB. Numbers I can leave up to other members, but insane last hitting granted by added damage and an improved QB effect and perhaps a cooldown on chopping trees could make this a very good item, damage, farming and juking wise.

I've already stated that this will not help farming.
I want this to be an item that for example a level 9 Mortred can use and jump into a fight and do some decent damage to a hero. Not on par with a nuke, it should come from DPS, because that's what carries do.

P.S. I like your QB instead of recipe idea.

[khaivubui]

Good idea but not a lot of people actually wants to drag the Quelling Blade into mid-late game. IMO most carry will farm straight to a late game item instead of a half-baked, mid game item.

[cezar_sl]

Originally Posted by khaivubui

Good idea but not a lot of people actually wants to drag the Quelling Blade into mid-late game. IMO most a FAIL carry will farm straight to a late game item instead of a half-baked, mid game item that would help the team survive to late game.

Fixed.
QB as a component is OK since it doesn't override any attack modifiers.

[diredeer]

The idea is splendid, me now goes to comment numbers.
It should have like 40/16% increase against creeps, maybe even more. Also, either give more dmg/aspd or reduce recipe cost.

[TribunXIII]

I think a early-carry game should support dmg, farming ability and survivability. Carries are papers, they're bad in early because they die too fast to nukes.

to i would rather say: less dmg and AS but more buff in survivability.

[cezar_sl]

Originally Posted by TribunXIII

I think a early-carry game should support dmg, farming ability and survivability. Carries are papers, they're bad in early because they die too fast to nukes.

to i would rather say: less dmg and AS but more buff in survivability.

I don't want it to be something that you get to survive ganks early in the game, but something that you get so you can participate in the ganks your team does, and be useful.

[TribunXIII]

Originally Posted by cezar_sl

I don't want it to be something that you get to survive ganks early in the game, but something that you get so you can participate in the ganks your team does, and be useful.

but, look at it this way: If you die too fast in ganks, there isn't any sense in participate. I'd remove farming power, but add survivability, if you want to have a Gank-Item