Making Cent a Tank via Double Edge

[NotQuiteThere]

Hey all.

OK, so the main issue with Centaur is his inability to effectively tank unless he gets a radiance. In other words, Centaur's problem is his lack of getting people to concentrate on him (unless he is carrying, which has its own debates). After thinking over his skill set, I realized that remaking double edge (while keeping the name) might be the best way to solve the problem. So here's my suggestion.

(Incidentally, I did do a search and did not see any such suggestion before for Double Edge, but if there is one and I missed it, I apologize. The closest thing I could find was by kidnguyen1412 here.)

Double Edge: Bradwarden causes his opponents to focus on him with the tribal powers endowed upon his axe. Target opponent's next targetted spell will be focused on Bradwarden instead in the next 3/4/5/6 sec. In response, Bradwarden deals 75/150/225/300 damage in return (no ministun).
Cooldown: 20 sec. (all levels).
Mana cost: 0
Casting range: 500

Pros:
1. Allows him to get focused (if unintentionally) by opponents. For example, Lion's ult trying to finish off Troll Warlord instead is re-routed to Brad (who dutifully returns some damage of his own).
2. Could result in hilarious results (Omniknight trying to heal an ally instead heals Brad and gets 300 dmg. to the face on top of that).
3.Can still be called double-edge since Brad is risking himself for a hard-hitting skill but also does a "return to sender"

Cons:
1. Not sure if this is codeable as I am not exactly tech-savvy.
2. Might be imba since it could effectively act as a silence.
3. Could change his gameplay so that he is not newb friendly.

[Subotai]

mechanisms seems fine (not talking about coding), but I don't like it... The lore of the hero is physical strenght... And skills depending on the fact that enemy got targetable spells is quite bad imho.
While you can get linkens as an item in the right situation, a skill from a hero shouldn't be totally counterable. It is in fact very easy to pick only aoe...
still reading this...

[NotQuiteThere]

Originally Posted by Subotai

mechanisms seems fine (not talking about coding), but I don't like it... The lore of the hero is physical strenght... And skills depending on the fact that enemy got targetable spells is quite bad imho.
While you can get linkens as an item in the right situation, a skill from a hero shouldn't be totally counterable. It is in fact very easy to pick only aoe...
still reading this...

That is true that it could be countered altogether I suppose. Hmm...what if I added something like "passively gives 6/8/10/12% magic resistance? I dunno, like I said, I'm trying to make him more of a tank, but I don't want him to become (a) unkillable or (b) a pushover or (c) way complicated.

[Subotai]

Everyone agrees that he has the EHP but not the threat...

I don't think a forced tank skill (actively taking dmg instead of allies) is good.
A whole new hero could be created with this concept but this definitely doesn't fit centaur.

[NotQuiteThere]

Originally Posted by Subotai

Everyone agrees that he has the EHP but not the threat...

I don't think a forced tank skill (actively taking dmg instead of allies) is good.
A whole new hero could be created with this concept but this definitely doesn't fit centaur.

Understood. Thanks for the feedback. I'll leave it up a little longer for more feedback, but if nothing else happens, I'll see if I can get it closed if it seems to be a dud.

[CSDT]

I suggested the idea of making Double Edge a real disable instead of interuption as Great Fortitude is leveled, but that post is flamed to hell because of imbalanced numbers. I think this idea is good enough to get Cent focused. No one wants to be disabled.

[gilvert]

lol imagining cast this then run back with dagger to fountain, watch as the hero targeted will can not cast any targeted spell except going to your fountain

if not, then a very long range spell would be weird, and might as well fuck up the mechanics

[MathsDebator]

Originally Posted by CSDT

I suggested the idea of making Double Edge a real disable instead of interuption as Great Fortitude is leveled, but that post is flamed to hell because of imbalanced numbers. I think this idea is good enough to get Cent focused. No one wants to be disabled.

Heard of Hoof Stomp...?

[CSDT]

Originally Posted by MathsDebator

Heard of Hoof Stomp...?

So what else do you want to add to Double Edge? If Cent is focused with Hoof Stomp, no problems with him.

[NotQuiteThere]

Originally Posted by gilvert

lol imagining cast this then run back with dagger to fountain, watch as the hero targeted will can not cast any targeted spell except going to your fountain

if not, then a very long range spell would be weird, and might as well fuck up the mechanics

Good point. I was thinking the mechanic would cause the hero to immediately head towards Centaur if out of range of their own spell (i.e. Lion will not cast finger of death globally, as funny as that would be). Of course, if the duration runs out before Lion gets into range, then you can recorrect the spell.

Originally Posted by CSDT

I suggested the idea of making Double Edge a real disable instead of interuption as Great Fortitude is leveled, but that post is flamed to hell because of imbalanced numbers. I think this idea is good enough to get Cent focused. No one wants to be disabled.

So...you like my suggestion?

[BenchBreaker]

make it so that double edge gives centaur a blood lust buff for 8 seconds, so if you keep spamming double edge you will get perma blood lust

[NotQuiteThere]

Originally Posted by BenchBreaker

make it so that double edge gives centaur a blood lust buff for 8 seconds, so if you keep spamming double edge you will get perma blood lust

Wait..you mean like Ogre Magi's skill??

[gofunkiertti]

Perhaps all you need to balance it is to make double edge also do a percentage of centaurs current or max health. Make it so it does closer to 700 damage when you got 4000-5000 health.

[Straight Flush]

You could try making Double Edge deal an extra 10 damage to the target and yourself everytime you cast it against a hero. The bonus damage is permanent and not retro-active. It might be hard to balance due to its infinite nature.

[NotQuiteThere]

Originally Posted by gofunkiertti

Perhaps all you need to balance it is to make double edge also do a percentage of centaurs current or max health. Make it so it does closer to 700 damage when you got 4000-5000 health.

That strikes me as being pretty imba even late game...but...I'll think about it.

Originally Posted by Straight Flush

You could try making Double Edge deal an extra 10 damage to the target and yourself everytime you cast it against a hero. The bonus damage is permanent and not retro-active. It might be hard to balance due to its infinite nature.

I apologize, I'm not sure if I follow you. Do you mean that the damage is stacking?

[PowerChaos]

I don't like the concept. It sound like a forced way to make him a tanker.

[freakinmaniac]

Originally Posted by PowerChaos

I don't like the concept. It sound like a forced way to make him a tanker.

This.

[Straight Flush]

Originally Posted by NotQuiteThere

I apologize, I'm not sure if I follow you. Do you mean that the damage is stacking?

Well I meant that every time you cast Double Edge against a hero, it increases its damage by 10. So if you cast Double Edge 9 times and you have level 4 Double Edge, your next Double Edge deals 500 damage to both you and the target. That's what I meant but it's a hard to balance concept.

[BenchBreaker]

Originally Posted by NotQuiteThere

Wait..you mean like Ogre Magi's skill??

yes the ladder blood lust which increases AS and MS, which will make him a bigger threat

numbers can be adjusted but something like 30%AS 15%MS would be fine

[RagnarokVIP]

i once suggested changing return's name and adding an active AS buff ability to the damage return, which will make him alot better at pushing towers thus forcing enemies to actually take him out : )