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Old 09-29-2009, 10:52 AM   #1
cezar_sl
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Default The Big List of Uncodable Things


I'm trying to make a list of all the things that are unlikely to be coded into DotA, because they are either uncodable, would have serious drawbacks or require too much extra coding.



If possible give a reason.
Dynamically modifying attack range : one way to increase attack range is with an upgrade, which cannot be taken back and would require something like resetting the model, which would interrupt orders and such. another way would be via an arrow effect which does nothing, but has various cast ranges at different levels, and make it so that whenever you try to attack outside normal range, the arrow effect will be casted instead. But this would override most attack modifiers you have.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:18 AM   #2
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

The list grows limitless. You could really actually put everything.

Here are some randoms that COULD be but won't, too much problems:

- Allowing players to join into a game even after it has started. (POSSIBLE with RtC)
- Allowing triggers to detect Mouse's location (RtC)

- Having Buff timers, like in Heroes of Newerth or something. It shows how many seconds. (Too much Object Editor hassle, and triggering hassle)
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by APL View Post
The list grows limitless. You could really actually put everything.

Here are some randoms that COULD be but won't, too much problems:

- Allowing players to join into a game even after it has started. (POSSIBLE with RtC)
- Allowing triggers to detect Mouse's location (RtC)

- Having Buff timers, like in Heroes of Newerth or something. It shows how many seconds. (Too much Object Editor hassle, and triggering hassle)
Thanks, but I'd rather have stuff that people are likely to suggest.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Might be that the list is endless, but there are a bunch of things people just keep suggesting, and these should be noted here in my opinion.
Could even be a list for that suggestions thread.
In that case, it is important that the information that this is merely a small part of all the uncodable things comes along in the main post.

Manipulation of cooldowns, checking cooldowns.
Detecting whether damage comes from spells or from attacks.
Detecting critical strikes/bashes/evasion.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

I think then we should add

Spell reflection, as people often suggest this, but do not know that it is uncodeable in the sense that it is too much work to be implemented.
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Old 09-29-2009, 05:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

thread pinned. do keep it as clean (on topic) as possible.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Thanks for pinning.
I was going to ask for it once it grew.
Adding new stuff to the first page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazar- View Post
I think then we should add

Spell reflection, as people often suggest this, but do not know that it is uncodeable in the sense that it is too much work to be implemented.
For AoE spells yes.
But for spells that at some point target the unit directly in would I suppose it youlld be just like the Linken's Sphere trigger.
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Wicked list. Great initiative, cezar.

Indeed, the list can actually grow limitless, but I think it could just be restricted to have all the things that are commonly suggested (or likely to be), along with other changes relevant to the game.

I hope I could help, but my coding knowledge matches that of a kangaroo (a stupid one, that is).
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:40 AM   #9
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Detect attempt to sell item? but I'm not sure about this one.
And change "detecting whether damage comes from spells or from attacks" to detecting attack type. I also think detecting base armor and unreduced damage is not feasible.
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Old 09-30-2009, 06:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Manipulation of cooldowns, checking cooldowns.
No, Cooldown system.

Detecting whether damage comes from spells or from attacks.
No, Damage system.

P/S : Don't try to post something that is codable.
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:20 AM   #11
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazar- View Post
I think then we should add

Spell reflection, as people often suggest this, but do not know that it is uncodeable in the sense that it is too much work to be implemented.
Spell reflection itself isn't possible but the damage is possible isn't it?
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

I did a system to check cooldowns.

The cooldown of the ability needed to be registred tho. (i.e.)

When a player cast an ability call RegisterCooldown(unit, abilityId, time)
and you could GetCooldownRemaining(unit, abilityId); returns real, etc..

Here's the link. I didn't update it tho. It's old and could be re-done. It's just to show you how I've did it.
http://www.thehelper.net/forums/showthread.php?t=135431
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Last edited by GetTriggerUnit-; 09-30-2009 at 09:29 PM.
Old 09-30-2009, 09:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Quote:
The cooldown of the ability needed to be registred tho.
This is why it will not get implemented considering the amount of work it needs just for a few spells/items.
Quote:
No, Damage system.
Care to provide a demo map? It was impossible for a long time.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:29 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Intuitive Damage Detection System - Wc3C.net
Quote:
So, I would first and foremost like to thank the Tides of Blood team for inspiring me to make a (releasable) damage detection system in the first place. Past that, the background of the system is simple: I wanted to create a damage detection system that allows easy detection of attacks and spells and infinitely many damage types without changing the way people think about triggers. I wanted to create a world where damage detection is your friend and where you can easily check damage types in triggers, use waits, whatever you want, just like if Blizzard itself had made it for us. Well, I achieved that and am damned proud to present to you all the IDDS, intuitive and simple, for your use.
Although, it involves replacing UnitDamageTarget with the systems own damage function, which can easily be done I think. Can't you just edit the blizzard scripts and add your own?

AND incase someone says detecting armor types: http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=85631
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Last edited by Siraraz; 09-30-2009 at 11:33 PM.
Old 10-01-2009, 12:20 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

MHM, that couldn't work?
Code:
function C takes nothing returns boolean
    if GetUnitCurrentOrder == 80000 then// Id of the order "attack" ( I don't know by heart what the "attack" id is )
        call BJDebusMsg("DamageSource() was attacked")
    else
        call BJDebugMsg("Damage comes from another source than attack)
    endif
    return false
endfunction
 
function InitTrig_APL takes nothing returns nothing
    local trigger t = CreateTrigger()
    call TriggerRegisterAnyUnitDamaged(t)
    call TriggerAddCondition(t, Condition(function C))
endfunction
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:35 AM   #16
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

@APL- the notes say that all spells have to be triggered for that system to work, its too much work to implement.
@GetTriggerUnit-No, enemies can be damaged by spells when you are attacking, all DoT skills can do that.
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:57 AM   #17
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Well AFAIK, that's still the easiest way to do it.

You could have a global trigger that call it for every spell...
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:00 AM   #18
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Offtopic but, WTF? function InitTrig_APL takes nothing returns nothing
Excuse me lol?

It is meant to be:
function InitTrig_APL takes cashAsAPayment returns GetTriggerUnit-'sHead
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:02 AM   #19
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Code:
function InitTrig_APL takes unit APL, player APL returns APL
    return APL
endfunction
better?
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:14 AM   #20
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Tagging heroes? Kinda like tag-team combat in fighting games, where you leave play and bring in your reserve hero. I think that could fall into the category of "require too much extra coding". I remember seeing this suggestion back in the DA forums.
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Old 10-01-2009, 06:14 AM   #21
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Slightly :P
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Old 10-16-2009, 01:49 AM   #22
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkingyyk3 View Post
Manipulation of cooldowns, checking cooldowns.
No, Cooldown system.

Detecting whether damage comes from spells or from attacks.
No, Damage system.

P/S : Don't try to post something that is codable.
Would it be OK to add these under the "too much would need to change in order to implement this, therefore unlikely" tag?
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:14 AM   #23
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Hi, I wonder if the skills of Realmwalker, one of my hero suggestion, can be coded?
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:14 AM   #24
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Manipulation of cooldowns, checking cooldowns.
Detecting whether damage comes from spells or from attacks.
Detecting critical strikes/bashes/evasion.
Spell Reflection


They are codeable, just you don't want to think to code it.
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:19 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Detecting whether damage comes from spells or from attacks
-not codable.
then how does defiance work?
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Old 10-17-2009, 05:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by grendss View Post
Detecting whether damage comes from spells or from attacks
-not codable.
then how does defiance work?
Just like Magina's Spell shield. It's based on a ladder skill.
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Old 10-17-2009, 07:29 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

What do you mean by checking cooldowns because the new system in DotA kind'a displays(which can be also regarded as checking) the cooldowns on ultimates.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:54 AM   #28
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

You could add checking a heroes attack speed and displaying it.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:18 AM   #29
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

You can have the value by lua script
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:23 AM   #30
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

I think it's to indicate temporarily with affecting cooldowns. This goes the same with mana costs. 'Cause people might argue Ogre Magi XD.
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Old 12-11-2009, 05:39 PM   #31
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

http://www.playdota.com/forums/15900...dow-rogue-tm1/

how do you think 1st skill was coded? Isnt it dynamically modifying attack range?
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Old 12-11-2009, 05:52 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smaug- View Post
What do you mean by checking cooldowns because the new system in DotA kind'a displays(which can be also regarded as checking) the cooldowns on ultimates.
No, it has all the ultimates stored.It checks for the level, and when the skill is cast, it creates the timer on the leaderboard.
It is kinda clumsy, but hey, who am I to judge??
So, it's not actual checking, but more like putting the values of known variables in a table and showing them when requirements are met.
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Old 12-12-2009, 03:47 AM   #33
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Yes and it also reset it when you use refresher.
Items also have their own cd detection system when you use it you can't immediately drop it if it has a cd, however in WTF mode when you use it, the cd is gone but you still can't drop it, proving this IS a clumsy system..
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:42 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRain View Post
how do you think 1st skill was coded? Isnt it dynamically modifying attack range?
I know it was done by morphing unit into another unit that has Range upgrade available, this upgrade is researched when the skill is learned.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:02 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

besides the list i especially like the name
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:14 AM   #36
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

  • Dynamically modifying attack range -- this should be doable. But only increasing. Decreasing is impossible, unfortunately.
  • Buff Timers -- just wait until PurplePoot finishes this.
  • Manipulation of cooldowns, checking cooldowns. -- Manipulating shouldnt be possible
  • Detecting whether damage comes from spells or from attacks. -- If DotA had a decent damage detection engine, this wouldnt be any problem. Hell, this would be the easiest thing to do.
  • Detecting critical strikes/bashes/evasion. -- Detecting critical strikes is possible (relies on damage detection). Dont think the others are.
  • Spell Reflection

Errr.... yes.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:22 AM   #37
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrisios View Post
Detecting whether damage comes from spells or from attacks.
Detecting critical strikes/bashes/evasion.
Damage can handle that.
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:14 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Sure. Now we just have to convince IceFrog to implement this system.

Dynamically modyfying attack range (increasing/decreasing) is possible with upgrades. As you can not unlearn upgrades they would have to have huge number of levels.
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:05 AM   #39
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

Hmm. I've just experimented with Long Rifles, set attack range bonus to -200, sharpandshiny and Sniper range becomes 200.
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Old 12-26-2009, 07:53 AM   #40
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Default Re: The Big List of Uncodable Things

What's sharpandshiny?

Well we can have 2 correspondent upgrades for each unit, one negative and one positive, according to you and that can adjust attack range? Maybe...
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