[INT SENT] T'nalak, the Aetherspinner

frangipani · 01-25-2012, 12:32 PM

AETHERSPINNER
T’nalak

473 HP

/

286 MP

Strength

-Agility

Intelligence

_____

16 + 1.7

-18 + 1.9

22 + 2.0

Warpweft Releases raw magic in an area, dealing initial minor damage and leaving a debuff that deals pure aoe damage every time the enemy loses mana
Ravel Wraps an ally’s attacks in pulsing energy, enabling them to drain enemy mana to their own and grant bonus attack damage based on the ally’s mana pool
Aetherspindle Sends out threads of aether to link any unit with mana to himself, blessing allies with mana and sapping enemies of their speed by occult manipulation.
Unknot T’nalak defies the laws of magic, ripping open all magical possibility by suspending an ally’s mana pool at the current amount, healing instead any mana they would gain.

Affiliation: Sentinel _____ Attack Animation: 0.5 / 0.5
Damage: 45 - 55 Casting Animation: 0.3 / 0.5
Armor: 1.8 Base Attack Time: 1.7
Movespeed: 305 Missile Speed: 900
Attack Range: 500 Sight Range: 1800 / 800

T’nalak is a supportive hero of the Sentinel who capitalizes on mana (and button mashing!). His nuke, Warpweft, though weak at first, leaves the player open to abuse its pure damage potential. One of the ways of which is his Ravel buff, which strengthens damage and steals mana upon attack. T’nalak’s Aetherthreads enable him to support his allies by providing them mana and a slow to enemies. Unknot is the icing on the cake as it leaves T’nalak or any ally to cast spells freely for a time while gaining health.

A group of high elves isolating themselves near the Quel'Lithien lands, the Aetherspinners have made it their lives' work to study and wield pure arcane magic without succumbing to its corruptive and addictive nature. Their leader T'nalak's druidic philosophy that the arcane exists in the fabric of life has enabled these monk-like elves to weave and employ the magic that ties all beings, to clothe allies in power or cause foes to fall apart at the seams. Seeking to mend the rifts created by his race's past, T'nalak answers the call of the Sentinel, with his talents forcing the Scourge to come undone.

WARPWEFT

Ability Type:	Active AOE
Targeting Type:	Area
Hotkey:	W

T’nalak releases a sheet of raw magic energy onto a 250 aoe dealing initial damage. Any affected enemy unit with mana is also debuffed with Warpweft, which deals pure area damage to a 250 aoe whenever that unit loses mana. Warpweft debuff stacks.

Level

Mana Cost

Cooldown

Casting Range

Area of Effect

Duration

Allowed Targets

Effects

1

90

8 seconds

500

250 aoe

6 seconds

Enemy units

95 damage, 20% of mana loss as pure damage

2

95

6 seconds

500

250 aoe

6 seconds

Enemy units

110 damage, 25% of mana loss as pure damage

3

100

4 seconds

500

250 aoe

6 seconds

Enemy units

125 damage, 30% of mana loss as pure damage

4

105

2 seconds

500

250 aoe

6 seconds

Enemy units

140 damage, 35% of mana loss as pure damage

Notes

Mana loss checked every second. Maximum Warpweft debuff damage per instance is 100 (e.g. if Warpweft is stacked to the maximum of 3 instances, the most damage dealt will be 300.)
The damage of the Warpweft debuff depends on how much mana a unit loses to casting spells or other effects such as T’nalak’s skills, Mana Break, Mana Leak, etc.

RAVEL

Ability Type:	Active Buff
Targeting Type:	Unit
Hotkey:	R

T’nalak wraps an ally’s attacks in pulsing energy, enabling them to drain enemy mana into their own with every attack and grant bonus attack damage for each 10% of mana they have.

Level

Mana Cost

Cooldown

Casting Range

Area of Effect

Duration

Allowed Targets

Effects

1

75

7 seconds

500

n/a

8 seconds

Allied unit with mana/Self

Attacks drain 10 mana. 2 damage for every 10% current remaining mana.

2

75

7 seconds

500

n/a

10 seconds

Allied unit with mana/Self

Attacks drain 12 mana. 4 damage for every 10% current remaining mana.

3

75

7 seconds

500

n/a

12 seconds

Allied unit with mana/Self

Attacks drain 14 mana. 6 damage for every 10% current remaining mana.

4

75

7 seconds

500

n/a

14 seconds

Allied unit with mana/Self

Attacks drain 16 mana. 8 damage for every 10% current remaining mana.

Notes

Ravel does not stack with itself.

AETHERSPINDLE

Ability Type:	Active
Targeting Type:	Unit/Ground
Hotkey:	D

T’nalak sends out spindle threads of aether from himself to any unit with mana, friend or foe. These threads weave into a stackable area slow around spindled enemy units upon initial contact and anytime T’nalak or any spindled unit casts a spell. Additionally, T’nalak and spindled allies gain a percentage of the mana cost used to cast a spell by T’nalak or any spindled unit.

Level

Mana Cost

Cooldown

Casting Range

Area of Effect

Duration

Allowed Targets

Effects

1

125

16 seconds

500

200 aoe

16*/6** seconds

Any unit with mana

5% stackable area AS/MS slow around spindled enemies and T’nalak and spindled allies gain 15% of the mana cost when any spindled unit casts a spell.

2

125

12 seconds

800

250 aoe

16*/6** seconds

Any unit with mana

6% stackable area AS/MS slow around spindled enemies and T’nalak and spindled allies gain 20% of the mana cost when any spindled unit casts a spell.

3

125

8 seconds

1100

300 aoe

16*/6** seconds

Any unit with mana

7% stackable area AS/MS slow around spindled enemies and T’nalak and spindled allies gain 25% of the mana cost when any spindled unit casts a spell.

4

125

4 seconds

1400

350 aoe

16*/6** seconds

Any unit with mana

8% stackable area AS/MS slow around spindled enemies and T’nalak and spindled allies gain 30% of the mana cost when any spindled unit casts a spell.

Notes

*Duration of Aetherspindle link./**Duration of slow effect
There is no limit to Aetherspindled units.
Slow affects the Aetherspindled enemy as well.
Items, orb effects, no-cooldown and toggled skills do not trigger the effects of Aetherspindle.
Threads break when a spindled unit dies or if the unit goes beyond 1000 distance of T’nalak.
If targeted on the ground, Aetherspindle will travel in that direction. If an enemy hero comes within 200 range of it during this time, that enemy will be threaded to T’nalak.
Threads are visible to allies at all times. Threads become visible briefly to enemies when a threaded unit casts a spell.

Ultimate: UNKNOT

Ability Type:	Active buff
Targeting Type:	Unit
Hotkey:	T

T’nalak defies the laws of magic, ripping open all magical possibility through his or an ally’s mana pool for a brief moment. Unknot suspends the target’s mana pool at the current amount upon casting, and they will also instead gain in health a percentage of what they would have gained in mana. Target will lose all used mana accordingly when buff ends. Lasts for 5 seconds or for a specific amount of health gain.

Level

Mana Cost

Cooldown

Casting Range

Area of Effect

Duration

Allowed Targets

Effects

1

200

50 seconds

500

n/a

5 seconds or 500 health gain

Self/Ally hero

Maintained mana pool. Allies gain in health 60% of what they would gain in mana.

2

200

40 seconds

750

n/a

5 seconds or 600 health gain

Self/Ally hero

Maintained mana pool. Allies gain in health 80% of what they would gain in mana.

3

200

30 seconds

1000

n/a

5 seconds or 700 health gain

Self/Ally hero

Maintained mana pool. Allies gain in health 100% of what they would gain in mana.

Notes

” suspends the target’s mana pool at the current amount upon casting” means that when the ally or T’nalak is buffed, the amount of mana they had at that time will maintain at that amount, balancing all gains or losses.
Example: T’nalak casts level 3 Unknot on himself at 500 mana (he loses 200 for the spell, so he remains at 300). If he casts a level 3 Ravel on himself, he will immediately gain back the 100 mana to keep his mana pool at 300, but also gain 100 health (100% health gain of 90 mana). Continuing the situation, if he attacks a hero, he will immediately lose the 16 mana (he’ll still be at 300 mana) but gain 16 health (100% of 25) instead.
Target loses all the mana they would have lost during Unknot when the buff ends.

------------------------------------------------------

I actually started this hero back in 2006 (wow) on another site and then posted again here back when it was dota-allstars.com. Originally he was a Scourge hero, but switched him to the Sentinel when Harbinger came out, though I realize there’s also a couple of heroes who revolve around mana on the good side as well. Still, I think I’ve managed to maintain most of the original idea to make an interesting, (almost) totally mana-based hero, whose role is mostly supportive but still fun, that could work in the game. I hope people here agree!

Credit to Captain Planet and DLG|Master for the suggestion template.

Changelog:

1/25/12 – Posted.
1/27/12:
Warpweft - Increased mana cost by increments of 10. Decreased damage from 90/110/130/150 to 90/100/110/120. Reduced casting range from 800 to 500. Decreased initial aoe from 350 to 250, increased debuff damage aoe from 200 to 250.
Ravel – Increased mana cost from 90 to 100. Decreased mana drain from 10/15/20/25 to 10/12/14/16. Changed bonus damage mechanic from a percentage of current remaining mana to bonus damage per 10% of current remaining mana.
1/29/12:
Warpweft – Increased initial damage increments by 5. Removed mana loss per second. Pure damage debuff now stacks, calculation reduced from 70/80/90/100% of mana loss to 25/30/35/40%. Reduced pure damage cap from 300 to 100 per instance.

Switched Unknot with Aetherthreads (Unknot is now the ultimate.)

Aetherthreads – Casting range from 500/1000/1500 to 500/800/1100/1400. Reduced overall duration from 25 to 16. Slow from 6/8/10 to 5/6/7/8%. Mana gain/loss from 20/30/40% to 15/20/25/30%.
Aetherspindle – Cooldown from 100 seconds to 45. Duration from 40/50/60 to a static 20 seconds.

Unknot – Mana cost from 100 to 200. Cooldown from 10 to 50/40/30 seconds. Duration from 10 to 5 seconds. Casting range from 500/600/700/800 to 500/750/1000. Added health gain cap/duration. Target now loses all mana they should have lost during Unknot when the buff ends. Uncastable on unit with full health, rather than full mana.
4/12/12:
Warpweft: Increased initial damage increments from Level 1 by 5. (95/105/115/125 to 95/110/125/140). Decreased debuff percentages by 5. (25/30/35/40 to 20/25/30/35). Decreased mana cost from 100/110/120/130 to 90/95/100/105.

Ravel: Reduced overall mana cost from 100 to 75.

Aetherthreads merged into Aetherspindle. There is no more limit to Aetherspindled units.
Aetherspindle: Reduced mana cost from 150 to 125. Removed mana loss from spindled enemy units and slow effect triggering on T’nalak and spindled allies

Unknot: Removed uncastability on units with full health.

Vot1_Bear · 01-27-2012, 05:31 AM

Whoa, this is one hell of a spammer.

At first glance i thought his extremely low stats (especially int gain) would make up for his epic spammability. Until i saw his 3rd skill, that is.

1st skill-
It's conceptually decent, but imbalanced. Basically at level 7 it could deal AoE 150 magic damage, 60 pure damage and 60 mana burn. That, combined with 2s cooldown AND 800 cast range, is imbalanced.
Not only that, based on the notes it seems that continuous casts prolong the duration (e.g. casting twice means it will burn 20 mana/s for full 6s). Is this true? If it is, then it is even more imba.
Lastly we also need to note the AoE pure damage. With correct usage (or with a well-placed vacuum) this skill could deal massive AoE Pure dps plus manaburn.

Needs nerfs. a lot of them. It does have huge manacost for a hero with such crappy INT gain, but his 3rd skill easily takes care of that

2nd skill.
First of all, please specify the meaning of "drain mana". Does it mean target will lose mana too? Does it work on non-mana units? please clarify that in the notes.
Next, the imbalance. It gives you a grand 14 seconds to easily refill your mana, PLUS a decent damage boost as well.
You do realize that the damage boost is equal to obsidian's orb right? At the mere cost of non-pure damage type, you can cast it to allies, it lasts 14 seconds, no manacost per strike (hell, it even RESTORES mana), low cooldown (7) and it's non-orb effect.

Again, nerf it. hard. The damage boost tbh is boring and overkill imo. It's used by obsidian and is simply too good for a secondary effect on a spammable skill.

3rd skill.
The pinnacle of all imbaness. Not only that you DON'T LOSE MANA FOR A FULL 10 SECONDS, it also has 10 SECONDS COOLDOWN (almost infinite mana), cast-able on ALLIES, and HEALS YOU for 120% MANACOST.
If that is not imba, then nothing is.

PS: i don't get it. why shouldn't it be cast-able on units with full mana?

Ulti.
Another imbalanced skill. Not only that this provides a 25-second mana-draining machinery over up to 1500 range, it also slows every time you cast a spell and with subskill, you could practically link your entire team and give them infinite mana.
Not as imbalanced as others tbh, and the concept of subskill is decent. But it simply has something lacking, as it just doesn't have that awesome feel when you visualize it.

Overall (pardon my opinion) i don't really like him. You do have unique concepts and great theme, but you have several major problems:
-Balance problems. There's just too many of them.
-3rd skill. Your ONLY method of balancing him is by giving him massive manacosts and low INT gain. but hey, this skill basically gives you infinite mana AND healing. It lasts 10 secs (Lol imba duration) and has 10s cooldown (seriously, WAT). As long as you have the manacost to cast this skill, you are pretty much immortal.
-Overused theme. All of your skills are based on gaining, losing, or simply related to mana. Repeating a single concept is not a bad thing, but currently the continuous re-usage of mana manipulation makes the whole hero boring.

Needs a lot of tweaks (esp. on 3rd skill), but it really does have potential with the unique concepts. I'm seriously looking forward to further developments.

frangipani · 01-27-2012, 06:17 AM

Quote:

1st skill- It's conceptually decent, but imbalanced. Basically at level 7 it could deal AoE 150 magic damage, 60 pure damage and 60 mana burn. That, combined with 2s cooldown AND 800 cast range, is imbalanced.

Yeah I realized that it is a wee bit overpowered. Haha. I'll fix it later. The duration isn't prolonged when it stacks, just that the skill would still sap double the mana for whatever time when cast on the same unit.

---------------------

Quote:

2nd skill.
First of all, please specify the meaning of "drain mana". Does it mean target will lose mana too? Does it work on non-mana units? please clarify that in the notes.

Yes, draining mana will drain the target of mana and give it to the buffed unit. It won't work on non-mana units; it's in the skill table.

Quote:

Next, the imbalance. It gives you a grand 14 seconds to easily refill your mana, PLUS a decent damage boost as well.
You do realize that the damage boost is equal to obsidian's orb right? At the mere cost of non-pure damage type, you can cast it to allies, it lasts 14 seconds, no manacost per strike (hell, it even RESTORES mana), low cooldown (7) and it's non-orb effect.

Again, nerf it. hard. The damage boost tbh is boring and overkill imo. It's used by obsidian and is simply too good for a secondary effect on a spammable skill.

Really? I actually thought it was pretty weak, considering something like Magnataur's Empower, although he isn't an int hero. Taking the damage part of it though leaves a flat skill. But you are right though, it's redundant with Harbinger's orb. I'll think of a way to revise that part.

---------------------

Quote:

3rd skill.
The pinnacle of all imbaness. Not only that you DON'T LOSE MANA FOR A FULL 10 SECONDS, it also has 10 SECONDS COOLDOWN (almost infinite mana), cast-able on ALLIES, and HEALS YOU for 120% MANACOST.
If that is not imba, then nothing is.

PS: i don't get it. why shouldn't it be cast-able on units with full mana?

It wouldn't be castable on units with full mana, because as I understand it, units with full mana won't gain mana and benefit from the health part of the skill.

Is it broken as a concept or is it just numbers though? I actually don't think it's that strong. I could decrease the duration and increase the cooldown, though I don't want to. Hahaha.

---------------------

Quote:

Ulti. - Not as imbalanced as others tbh, and the concept of subskill is decent. But it simply has something lacking, as it just doesn't have that awesome feel when you visualize it.

I agree, it doesn't scream ULTIMATE!!! (albeit for the whole idea of linking your whole team). It's basically a conditional slow and mana manipulation which is basically an echo of all his other skills. Maybe I should switch this with Unknot?

---------------------

Quote:

Overall (pardon my opinion) i don't really like him. You do have unique concepts and great theme, but you have several major problems:
-Balance problems. There's just too many of them.

Which are just numbers! Better to be imbalanced but have good concept, I always say.

Quote:

-3rd skill. Your ONLY method of balancing him is by giving him massive manacosts and low INT gain. but hey, this skill basically gives you infinite mana AND healing. It lasts 10 secs (Lol imba duration) and has 10s cooldown (seriously, WAT). As long as you have the manacost to cast this skill, you are pretty much immortal.

Chill, this is my first pass at the hero! Haha. Fine.

Quote:

-Overused theme. All of your skills are based on gaining, losing, or simply related to mana. Repeating a single concept is not a bad thing, but currently the continuous re-usage of mana manipulation makes the whole hero boring.

Well, it really is his concept, which is why he's unique. I'm afraid I'm not sure how to remedy this, short of making him more of a knock-off of Harbinger.

---------------------
Edit to add: made preliminary balances/changes to hero

E02K · 01-27-2012, 10:31 AM

1st skill: not seeing the new thing in it
2nd skill: good idea
3rd skill: i saw a suggestion a WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILE ago with the same concept
Ultimate: kinda reminds me of tether, but he should also give the ally a part of the mana he used when he casted a spell , and to steal a part of mana when an enemy casts a spell

Hemoxyte · 01-27-2012, 09:44 PM

1st skill; Nortroms skill but with a huge tweak, this means that if you cast a skill like laguna/finger/black hole/ dragonus ulti the person will either die instantly or have 90% of their hp gone, plus it is seriously spammable at 2s cd.

2nd skill: ~~Not sure if this can be good to any carry, i guess it would do its best if it was on yourself or a pugna (lol)~~ Actually, a pretty decent skill, it's kind of like feedback though.

3rd skill: i don't know about this skill, there's an edge of imbalance in the tone of it but lets say dragonus casts his ulti he would get like 900~ health gain?

4th skill: ok synergizes with third skill, sort of like tether with a different buff, honestly i don't think the subskill is necessary.

r3dman · 01-27-2012, 11:36 PM

1st skill is nice since the pure dmg is capped at 300 dmg and the aoe is kinda small. Increase the mana loss by the skill itself, increase the aoe a bit and make the pure dmg depend only on that mana loss and that of the ulti. Also, different stacks of it deal damage depending each on its own mana loss.

2nd skill is nice, although i'd increase the mana drain a bit. +80 dmg at lvl 4 for a unit with full mana is ok.

3rd skill is IMBA. Period. So, you cast any of your spells, then this. GZ! Now you have unlimited mana AND health, since you will never be at full mana because of the skill itself and the duration equals the cooldown. Either decrease the 1st to 5 sec or increase the second to something like 30s and it will be OK. If not, imagine casting it on a Dragonus, an OD or a Lion/Lina. Drag will get 1.1k HP from using ult, in addition to not losing the 900 mana it costs. same story with Lion and Lina. OD will gain 120HP per attack.

The ulti is meh. Imo the subskill should get another side-effect like making warpweft chase enemy heroes if cast on them or smth like that.

Overall nice concept, but numbers are off.

frangipani · 01-29-2012, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E02K

Ultimate: kinda reminds me of tether, but he should also give the ally a part of the mana he used when he casted a spell , and to steal a part of mana when an enemy casts a spell

That is how part of the spell works. If either unit casts anything, the ally or T'nalak gains mana and/or the enemy loses mana.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemoxyte

1st skill; Nortroms skill but with a huge tweak, this means that if you cast a skill like laguna/finger/black hole/ dragonus ulti the person will either die instantly or have 90% of their hp gone, plus it is seriously spammable at 2s cd.
If we're comparing the skill to Glaives only on the basis of dealing pure damage, then sure, this could be "Nortroms skill with a huge tweak." The damage has a cap on it (even before I edited) and its spammability is its purpose, since the basic damage itself is weak (similar to Dragonus's first skill).

2nd skill: Not sure if this can be good to any carry, i guess it would do its best if it was on yourself or a pugna (lol) Actually, a pretty decent skill, it's kind of like feedback though.
Well, since most carries have little mana pools, I think they could benefit a lot from it. And again, if we're only drawing similarities in that it's an attack that affects an enemy's mana, then I suppose it's kind of like Feedback.

3rd skill: i don't know about this skill, there's an edge of imbalance in the tone of it but lets say dragonus casts his ulti he would get like 900~ health gain?

4th skill: ok synergizes with third skill, sort of like tether with a different buff, honestly i don't think the subskill is necessary.
The subskill is necessary for T'nalak and his allies to amp up the slow and to spread more mana around. I won't comment on the "Tether similarity" anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dman

1st skill is nice since the pure dmg is capped at 300 dmg and the aoe is kinda small. Increase the mana loss by the skill itself, increase the aoe a bit and make the pure dmg depend only on that mana loss and that of the ulti. Also, different stacks of it deal damage depending each on its own mana loss.
I kept the aoe small since it's pure damage. And I wanted to leave the pure damage dependence open to other skills as well, since T'nalak himself has little else ways to abuse it, other than Ravel and Aetherthreads. Sorry, I didn't understand that last one. I changed things around anyhow, so...

2nd skill is nice, although i'd increase the mana drain a bit. +80 dmg at lvl 4 for a unit with full mana is ok.
Hmm, I'll think about what the best amount of mana drain should be.

3rd skill is IMBA. Period. So, you cast any of your spells, then this. GZ! Now you have unlimited mana AND health, since you will never be at full mana because of the skill itself and the duration equals the cooldown. Either decrease the 1st to 5 sec or increase the second to something like 30s and it will be OK. If not, imagine casting it on a Dragonus, an OD or a Lion/Lina. Drag will get 1.1k HP from using ult, in addition to not losing the 900 mana it costs. same story with Lion and Lina. OD will gain 120HP per attack.

The ulti is meh. Imo the subskill should get another side-effect like making warpweft chase enemy heroes if cast on them or smth like that.
Make Warpweft chase enemy heroes? What?

Overall nice concept, but numbers are off.

Having totally underestimated Unknot's imbaness, I've switched it around with Aetherthreads, so now it's the ulti. I've also made some other changes; I hope this performs better now.

r3dman · 01-29-2012, 12:21 PM

What I meant about warpweft chasing target was to make the AoE move, instead of being static, so enemies wouldnt just move 300 units to be safe. it could move at some 250-300 ms. This effect would only be active with the ulti ON, ofc...

frangipani · 01-29-2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:

What I meant about warpweft chasing target was to make the AoE move, instead of being static, so enemies wouldnt just move 300 units to be safe. it could move at some 250-300 ms. This effect would only be active with the ulti ON, ofc...

Oh, okay, I'll consider that idea. Thanks.

r3dman · 01-29-2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frangipani

Oh, okay, I'll consider that idea. Thanks.

Welcome you are

char_josh_01 · 01-31-2012, 04:49 AM

hope you reply...

frangipani · 02-15-2012, 05:44 AM

Shamelessly bumping my hero! Made some hefty changes to the skills. In response to the slow on Aetherthreads being boring, maybe I could make it into a pull effect akin to Force Staff. Thoughts?

AnonymousPerson · 04-10-2012, 03:24 AM

He's very spam-oriented for me. His base stats and stat gains are incredibly low and it seems like he's going to have major problems with mana considering he has 4 active spells, all of which cost 100+ mana and are on very short cooldowns.

Warpweft:

There needs to be a damage cap on the debuff portion because it will be incredibly weak or incredibly strong depending on the target. Also, the stacking thing makes it even harder to balance so I would remove the stacking portion, or reduce the base amount so it can stack without going too much out of control. Otherwise, the concept is fairly unique.

Ravel:

The (imo) best skill in this hero. Original concept and one of the few steroids I've seen that is non-generic. Good job on this one.

Aetherthreads:

This is where things get a bit... messy. It seems like you tried to cram 10 different effects into one spell. For me the Aetherspindle kind of overloaded the spell if you get what I mean. Possibly make it so that the spell can affect 2-3 units at once at rank 4, and remove Aetherspindle?

Unknot:

I like this. It's simple yet effective. The only hero I can see this spell being imba in conjunction with is ironically the T'nalak himself in his current state. If he has no manacosts with this kit, he's going to steamroll all over the enemy team. However, if you make the changes I suggested it should be fine. Good support skill though, I must say.

Overall, it seems like there's too much going on. Tone the stuff down a little bit, especially Aetherthreads/spindle. Otherwise, it looks like he's headed in the right direction.

frangipani · 04-12-2012, 07:10 AM

Quote:

He's very spam-oriented for me. His base stats and stat gains are incredibly low and it seems like he's going to have major problems with mana considering he has 4 active spells, all of which cost 100+ mana and are on very short cooldowns.

To be honest, I don't really look at stats.

It's all just adjustable numbers to me, though I do get your concern. I'll think about the mana costs.

Quote:

Warpweft:

There needs to be a damage cap on the debuff portion because it will be incredibly weak or incredibly strong depending on the target. Also, the stacking thing makes it even harder to balance so I would remove the stacking portion, or reduce the base amount so it can stack without going too much out of control. Otherwise, the concept is fairly unique.

There is a damage cap in the notes (100 per instance). Ultimately, I wanted the debuff to stack because there'd be little else point for the skill to be that spammable since the base damage is so minor. I'll consider reducing the debuff percentage but up the base damage a bit.

Quote:

Ravel:

The (imo) best skill in this hero. Original concept and one of the few steroids I've seen that is non-generic. Good job on this one.

Thanks.

Quote:

Aetherthreads:

This is where things get a bit... messy. It seems like you tried to cram 10 different effects into one spell. For me the Aetherspindle kind of overloaded the spell if you get what I mean. Possibly make it so that the spell can affect 2-3 units at once at rank 4, and remove Aetherspindle?

I get how it's not exactly a "graceful" skill, but the effects themselves are pretty basic. I'll think about how to make the concept more organic. I do see how Aetherspindle adds little to it though, so I will take that out.

Quote:

Unknot:

I like this. It's simple yet effective. The only hero I can see this spell being imba in conjunction with is ironically the T'nalak himself in his current state. If he has no manacosts with this kit, he's going to steamroll all over the enemy team. However, if you make the changes I suggested it should be fine. Good support skill though, I must say.

I've gotten a lot of flak for this skill, so I'm glad it seems fixed now.

Quote:

Overall, it seems like there's too much going on. Tone the stuff down a little bit, especially Aetherthreads/spindle. Otherwise, it looks like he's headed in the right direction.

Thanks! I highly appreciate your feedback.

LanderZ · 06-09-2012, 03:34 AM

Well, brief check-over:

Stats/etc.... Look fine. 5.6 and 56... Meant to be offensive and well-rounded, hm?

Skill 1: A portable Pugna-Ward? A neat concept, but potentially screws people over in a very big way. I'd say the numbers are a bit high, especially when you factor in stacking (105%? Ow). I like the concept, though.... perhaps with smaller numbers, or not on such a spammable skill?

Skill 2: The Mana "Drain" regenerates mana to the attacker, right? A neat ability, but I'd reduce the bonus damage; a freebie chance to max out your ally's mana during a creepwave (unless it doesn't regenerate mana if it doesn't remove a target's mana, from not having any or being out, but even then it's often easy enough to harass the ranged creep or enemy heroes), atop of potentially 80 bonus damage per attack (Naix loves you, and heroes like PA and Sniper would, too). Perhaps too much in one skill (i.e. Possibly consider improving the mana drain and removing the bonus damage, or improve the damage and remove the mana drain), but it's a neat concept.

Skill 3: You typo'd the Level 4 effects of the skill, by the looks. And it's a little confusing... enemies around you/the area when it is casted suffer from a little slow from a virtually-invisible source, while when they cast, allies gain mana? Is the mana split, or just given to all allies (ex. I cast a 100 Mana spell, and 3 of you are around the Level 4 skill. Do you each gain 30 Mana, or is it 10 Mana each)? If you combo it with the first skill, I see it being devastating to anyone who casts anything, or anyone who uses a nuke, and given that it's only visible when someone casts, it could really screw your advantage. Powerful for a non-ult... perhaps too much, but that's simply a numbers-game. I'd ask for a little more explanation on the skill before I make a call.

Ultimate: Alright, at first glance I thought I'd hate it. Then I really liked it. Good concept, and synergizes well. Perhaps a little on the strong side, but, again, it's a numbers fix, and a relatively minor one I'd say.

Edit: Ah, I see you defined Drain mana later on. Perhaps put that in the original post?

frangipani · 06-10-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Stats/etc.... Look fine. 5.6 and 56... Meant to be offensive and well-rounded, hm?

Yeah. I don't really pay much attention to stats, to be honest. Haha

Quote:

Skill 1: A portable Pugna-Ward? A neat concept, but potentially screws people over in a very big way. I'd say the numbers are a bit high, especially when you factor in stacking (105%? Ow). I like the concept, though.... perhaps with smaller numbers, or not on such a spammable skill?

Well, it affects mana loss in general, so Pugna-Ward isn't really an accurate comparison. The aoe and raw damage is small to balance with the spammability and the debuff, so I don't think it's high at all. I have been rethinking the stacking though, since I think the concept of it is clunky, but I find no other reason for it to be so spammable if it doesn't stack.

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Skill 2: The Mana "Drain" regenerates mana to the attacker, right? A neat ability, but I'd reduce the bonus damage; a freebie chance to max out your ally's mana during a creepwave (unless it doesn't regenerate mana if it doesn't remove a target's mana, from not having any or being out, but even then it's often easy enough to harass the ranged creep or enemy heroes), atop of potentially 80 bonus damage per attack (Naix loves you, and heroes like PA and Sniper would, too). Perhaps too much in one skill (i.e. Possibly consider improving the mana drain and removing the bonus damage, or improve the damage and remove the mana drain), but it's a neat concept.

No, mana isn't drained when there isn't mana left to drain, the same way Break doesn't do bonus damage with no mana. I'd think that "drain" would've been self-explanatory, but I guess I'll add it in the notes. I'll consider the numbers, but I think they're pretty okay, considering that they're static (as compared to percentage-based) and they last a short duration (as compared to, say, Magnus's 40 second Empower).

Quote:

Skill 3: You typo'd the Level 4 effects of the skill, by the looks. And it's a little confusing... enemies around you/the area when it is casted suffer from a little slow from a virtually-invisible source, while when they cast, allies gain mana? Is the mana split, or just given to all allies (ex. I cast a 100 Mana spell, and 3 of you are around the Level 4 skill. Do you each gain 30 Mana, or is it 10 Mana each)? If you combo it with the first skill, I see it being devastating to anyone who casts anything, or anyone who uses a nuke, and given that it's only visible when someone casts, it could really screw your advantage. Powerful for a non-ult... perhaps too much, but that's simply a numbers-game. I'd ask for a little more explanation on the skill before I make a call.

There is a typo, thanks for the heads-up. I realize that the description is a little wordy and I'm thinking of a way to clarify it. Basically, when anyone threaded (including T'nalak) casts a spell, an aoe slow is cast around enemy units while allies gain mana. Allies and the hero gain the percentage individually, so that would be 30 mana each. It was originally an ulti, which is why it could be so strong still. I'll think of how to tweak the durations, I do think they're a little long.

Quote:

Ultimate: Alright, at first glance I thought I'd hate it. Then I really liked it. Good concept, and synergizes well. Perhaps a little on the strong side, but, again, it's a numbers fix, and a relatively minor one I'd say.

Is it too strong? Five seconds is hardly anything, I just realized, and I might increase it to 10 at least. Haha

Thanks for the reply!

ensnare · 06-10-2012, 03:58 PM

Impressive, the background story is fabulous. I fell in love with this hero once I finished reading the story. (too bad that now all elves in Quel'Lithien have become wretched

)
It appears that the skillset has been reworked many times, and currently it looks both thematic and well-rounded. Spotted some conflicts of numbers in your notes for the ultimate though, other than that, can't add anything for the time being, but great work!

NecroGiant · 12-12-2012, 03:57 AM

Warpweft: quite similar to Nether Ward (the mana loss is dealt as damage) The two differences are that this spell deals initial damage and you can target AoE (well maybe the fact that ward reduces mana regen). Add another interesting effect, maybe.

Ravel: if it is active, increase the amount of mana stolen.

Aetherwhatever: Hmmm... don't have too many comments about it. Nice and original, i think.

u/lti: again, nice

01-27-2012, 10:31 AM	#4
E02K Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 5,147	Re: [INT SENT] T'nalak, the Aetherspinner 1st skill: not seeing the new thing in it 2nd skill: good idea 3rd skill: i saw a suggestion a WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILE ago with the same concept Ultimate: kinda reminds me of tether, but he should also give the ally a part of the mana he used when he casted a spell , and to steal a part of mana when an enemy casts a spell __________________ Were you interested in getting steam games for free? Now you can by going here.

01-27-2012, 09:44 PM	#5
Hemoxyte Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: I'm posting below bored. Posts: 2,915 Blog Entries: 3	Re: [INT SENT] T'nalak, the Aetherspinner 1st skill; Nortroms skill but with a huge tweak, this means that if you cast a skill like laguna/finger/black hole/ dragonus ulti the person will either die instantly or have 90% of their hp gone, plus it is seriously spammable at 2s cd. 2nd skill: ~~Not sure if this can be good to any carry, i guess it would do its best if it was on yourself or a pugna (lol)~~ Actually, a pretty decent skill, it's kind of like feedback though. 3rd skill: i don't know about this skill, there's an edge of imbalance in the tone of it but lets say dragonus casts his ulti he would get like 900~ health gain? 4th skill: ok synergizes with third skill, sort of like tether with a different buff, honestly i don't think the subskill is necessary.

01-31-2012, 04:49 AM	#11
char_josh_01 Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 16	Re: [INT SENT] T'nalak, the Aetherspinner hope you reply...

02-15-2012, 05:44 AM	#12
frangipani Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 301	Re: [INT SENT] T'nalak, the Aetherspinner Shamelessly bumping my hero! Made some hefty changes to the skills. In response to the slow on Aetherthreads being boring, maybe I could make it into a pull effect akin to Force Staff. Thoughts? __________________ ~ T'nalak, the Aetherspinner.

04-10-2012, 03:24 AM	#13
AnonymousPerson Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 45	Re: [INT SENT] T'nalak, the Aetherspinner He's very spam-oriented for me. His base stats and stat gains are incredibly low and it seems like he's going to have major problems with mana considering he has 4 active spells, all of which cost 100+ mana and are on very short cooldowns. Warpweft: There needs to be a damage cap on the debuff portion because it will be incredibly weak or incredibly strong depending on the target. Also, the stacking thing makes it even harder to balance so I would remove the stacking portion, or reduce the base amount so it can stack without going too much out of control. Otherwise, the concept is fairly unique. Ravel: The (imo) best skill in this hero. Original concept and one of the few steroids I've seen that is non-generic. Good job on this one. Aetherthreads: This is where things get a bit... messy. It seems like you tried to cram 10 different effects into one spell. For me the Aetherspindle kind of overloaded the spell if you get what I mean. Possibly make it so that the spell can affect 2-3 units at once at rank 4, and remove Aetherspindle? Unknot: I like this. It's simple yet effective. The only hero I can see this spell being imba in conjunction with is ironically the T'nalak himself in his current state. If he has no manacosts with this kit, he's going to steamroll all over the enemy team. However, if you make the changes I suggested it should be fine. Good support skill though, I must say. Overall, it seems like there's too much going on. Tone the stuff down a little bit, especially Aetherthreads/spindle. Otherwise, it looks like he's headed in the right direction. __________________ Sakuya - The Mistress of Time Nako - The No Mind Warrior Kratos Doombringer - The Chaos Shaman Varkya - The Runic Ancient

06-09-2012, 03:34 AM	#15
LanderZ Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 40	Re: [INT SENT] T'nalak, the Aetherspinner Well, brief check-over: Stats/etc.... Look fine. 5.6 and 56... Meant to be offensive and well-rounded, hm? Skill 1: A portable Pugna-Ward? A neat concept, but potentially screws people over in a very big way. I'd say the numbers are a bit high, especially when you factor in stacking (105%? Ow). I like the concept, though.... perhaps with smaller numbers, or not on such a spammable skill? Skill 2: The Mana "Drain" regenerates mana to the attacker, right? A neat ability, but I'd reduce the bonus damage; a freebie chance to max out your ally's mana during a creepwave (unless it doesn't regenerate mana if it doesn't remove a target's mana, from not having any or being out, but even then it's often easy enough to harass the ranged creep or enemy heroes), atop of potentially 80 bonus damage per attack (Naix loves you, and heroes like PA and Sniper would, too). Perhaps too much in one skill (i.e. Possibly consider improving the mana drain and removing the bonus damage, or improve the damage and remove the mana drain), but it's a neat concept. Skill 3: You typo'd the Level 4 effects of the skill, by the looks. And it's a little confusing... enemies around you/the area when it is casted suffer from a little slow from a virtually-invisible source, while when they cast, allies gain mana? Is the mana split, or just given to all allies (ex. I cast a 100 Mana spell, and 3 of you are around the Level 4 skill. Do you each gain 30 Mana, or is it 10 Mana each)? If you combo it with the first skill, I see it being devastating to anyone who casts anything, or anyone who uses a nuke, and given that it's only visible when someone casts, it could really screw your advantage. Powerful for a non-ult... perhaps too much, but that's simply a numbers-game. I'd ask for a little more explanation on the skill before I make a call. Ultimate: Alright, at first glance I thought I'd hate it. Then I really liked it. Good concept, and synergizes well. Perhaps a little on the strong side, but, again, it's a numbers fix, and a relatively minor one I'd say. Edit: Ah, I see you defined Drain mana later on. Perhaps put that in the original post? __________________ - Exzhal, the Troll Priest

06-10-2012, 03:58 PM	#17
ensnare Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: York, UK Posts: 368	Re: [INT SENT] T'nalak, the Aetherspinner Impressive, the background story is fabulous. I fell in love with this hero once I finished reading the story. (too bad that now all elves in Quel'Lithien have become wretched) It appears that the skillset has been reworked many times, and currently it looks both thematic and well-rounded. Spotted some conflicts of numbers in your notes for the ultimate though, other than that, can't add anything for the time being, but great work! __________________ Feel free to check out my suggestions, and please do leave a comment so that I can further improve them, thank you very much! A hero idea-Silterra the Earth Enchanter Rename/remake Drunken Brawler Flavor texts for items without one yet Vol'jin should be a Sentinel hero! Windrunner needs a better background story!

12-12-2012, 03:57 AM	#18
NecroGiant Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 508	Re: [INT SENT] T'nalak, the Aetherspinner Warpweft: quite similar to Nether Ward (the mana loss is dealt as damage) The two differences are that this spell deals initial damage and you can target AoE (well maybe the fact that ward reduces mana regen). Add another interesting effect, maybe. Ravel: if it is active, increase the amount of mana stolen. Aetherwhatever: Hmmm... don't have too many comments about it. Nice and original, i think. u/lti: again, nice __________________ Heroes: