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Old 03-17-2012, 03:09 PM   #1
MR-President
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Default [REMAKE] Traxex, the Drow Ranger


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Traxex


The Drow Ranger is able to be quite a versatile fighter. She can provide constant support with her Frost Arrows to keep enemies pinned. She afflicts them with a poisonous Weakening Shot that amplifies the damage they take and silences them so they can't retaliate with spells once they're forced to fight. Her Gift of the Drow allows her to take control of a single creep that she desires, including the magic immune Mud Golems and Ancients, and passively increases her damage and that of units nearby and under her control. Her Extreme Conditioning grants her exceptional mobility and Agility needed to outwit opponents that would otherwise overpower her. You can say without a doubt that Traxex has more than one trick up her sleeve.


Traxex was a skilled archer in her oppressive underground homeland, the Underdark, until she grew sick of her kin's evil ways and fled to the surface world. As a part of her resolution, she joined the Sentinel, bringing her excellent marksmanship to the fray. Some of her abilities include stripping magical beings of their voices, and enchanting her arrows with an icy cold. While such powers are valuable, her true origin will never cease to linger around in the judging eyes of others.
Strength - 17 + 1.9
Agility - 26 + 2.6
Intelligence - 15 + 1.4

______________
Affiliation:Sentinel
Damage:44-55
Armor:2.64
Movespeed:300
Starting HP/MP:473/195
Attack Range:625
Sight Range:1800/800


FROST ARROWS
Type: active
Targeting: Unit
Hotkey: R
Induces a freezing effect to the hero's attacks. Each attack slows the enemy's movement and attack rates.


 ManaCooldownRangeAoEDurationEffects
1120625N/A1.5 seconds on Heroes (7 on creeps)Slows movement speed by 10% and attack speed by 10%
2120625N/A1.5 seconds on Heroes (7 on creeps)Slows movement speed by 15% and attack speed by 20%
3120625N/A1.5 seconds on Heroes (7 on creeps)Slows movement speed by 20% and attack speed by 30%
4120625N/A1.5 seconds on Heroes (7 on creeps)Slows movement speed by 25% and attack speed by 40%
  • Frost Arrows are Orb Effects and Buff Placers.
  • The slow will not be increased by succesive casts, only prolonged.


WEAKENING SHOT
Type: Active
Targeting: Unit
Hotkey: E
Shoots an arrow carrying a potent poison that silences the target and makes it more susceptible to pain, amplifying all damage it recieves.


 ManaCooldownRangeAoEDurationEffects
19013800N/A3 secondsDeals 90 damage, silences the target and amplifies all damage it recieves by 10%
29013800N/A4 secondsDeals 110 damage, silences the target and amplifies all damage it recieves by 15%
39013800N/A5 secondsDeals 130 damage, silences the target and amplifies all damage it recieves by 20%
49013800N/A6 secondsDeals 150 damage, silences the target and amplifies all damage it recieves by 25%
  • Damage type (both on cast and on damage amplification): physical
  • Weakening Shot is a projectile with 1200 movespeed that can be disjointed.


GIFT OF THE DROW
Type: Active
Targeting: Unit
Hotkey: F
Though Traxex parted ways with her people, she still retains some of their legacy. She persuades even the strongest of creatures into her service, which will fight fanatically for her cause, taking extra damage from enemy heroes, towers and creeps. Traxex' gift also increases her damage and that of nearby creatures that she controls. Can only persuade one creature at a given time.


 ManaCooldownRangeAoEDurationEffects
170120900900N/APersuades a creep up to level 3 that takes 50% extra damage from non-neutral units. 10% damage bonus.
280120900900N/APersuades a creep up to level 4 that takes 50% extra damage from non-neutral units. 16% damage bonus.
390120900900N/APersuades a creep up to level 5 that takes 50% extra damage from non-neutral units. Can persuade magic immune units. 23% damage bonus.
4100120900900N/APersuades a creep up to level 6 that takes 50% extra damage from non-neutral units. Can persuade magic immune units and Ancients. 30% damage bonus.
  • The persuaded unit lasts until killed or if Traxex persuades a new unit.
  • Persuaded magic immune units lose their magic immunity.
  • Amplified damage type: HP removal
  • Cannot control Roshan, Warlock Infernals, Lone Druid's Spirit Bear, Visage Familiars, Siege Creeps, Couriers or Super Creeps.
  • Persuaded creeps will also take more damage from Roshan.


EXTREME CONDITIONING
Type: Active
Targeting: Instant
Hotkey: D
The Drow Ranger never ceases to improve her abilities. Years of target practice and hunting have taught her to improve her accuracy, speed, endurance and her control over others. She can focus her entire being to run with blistering speed, climb over cliffs and move through the narrowest spaces between trees. Passively increases her Agility and reduces the damage amplification for her controlled creeps.


 ManaCooldownRangeAoEDurationEffects
15035N/AN/A5 seconds30% bonus movement speed and no collision. Passively gives +10 Agility.
27530N/AN/A6 seconds30% bonus movement speed and no collision. Passively reduces the extra damage taken by persuaded units to 25% and gives +20 Agility.
310025N/AN/A7 seconds30% bonus movement speed and no collision. Passively nullifies the extra damage taken by persuaded units and gives +30 Agility.
  • The active effect of this skill can be purged.
==========================================

March 17th
- Rescaled ultimate from 5/7/9 seconds to 5/6/7, mana cost from 50 to 50/75/100 cooldown from 40/30/20 to 35/30/25 and persuaded unit damage amplifier from 27%/14%/0 to 40%/20%/0.
- Removed the addition of Resistant Skin to persuaded units that lose magic immunity.

March 18th
- Increased Gift of the Drow's cooldown to 120 and increased the damage amplifier for persuaded creeps to 50%.
- Rescaled the persuaded unit damage amplifier reduction given by Extreme Conditioning to 50%/25%/0.

March 22nd
- Increased the cooldown of Weakening shot from 13/12/11/10 to a constant 13 seconds.

March 24th
- Persuaded creeps will not take extra damage from neutral creeps. Roshan is an exception.

September 14th
- Changed the slow percentage of Frost Arrows from 10 MS, 5 AS/20 MS, 10 AS, 30 MS, 15 AS/40 MS, 20 AS to 10 MS, 10 AS/15 MS, 20 AS/20 MS, 30 AS/25 MS, 40 AS.

September 19th
- Increased Agility gain from current 1.9 to 2.6.
This suggestion adds a lot more fun to playing Drow Ranger. Instead of the boring right click hero with two passives, she now has four (yes, FOUR) active abilities, each adding depth to her play style and providing new tactical options for the team. The new abilities also solve her other major problems, which include the weak Trueshot Aura, probably the weakest aura in the game, the Silence spell which does not belong on a carry and is almost identical to Death Prophet's, and the lack of any sort of escape mechanism. It's not as good as a Blink, but it will definitely help her survive.

Firstly, she needs more stats. For a hard carry without nukes, stats are of the most importance, and she has a very small stat growth. Drow has been handicapped with her piss-poor 1.9 Agility gain just because of Marksmanship. I think a 2.6 Agility gain is in order (this effectively gives her +0,5 Agility per level, or +12 overall Agility at level 25).

I remade the old Frost Arrows (the one that slowed both movement speed and attack rate) by giving it less MS slow but more AS slow. I put the emphasis on the AS slow part because I gave her a movement speed increasing ability and the attack speed slow matters a lot when facing enemy carries and is a necessary buff.

Then there was the issue with Silence. It is a very good skill, 6 second AoE silence is absolutely no joke, but this is not a skill a hard carry should have. Every single ability of the other hard carries provide either DPS increase, escape mechanisms, mobility or survival. Silence provides absolutely nothing in that regard. The solution was Weakening Shot, an arrow that silences, so Drow still counters blinkers, casters and invis heroes, and also amplifies the damage, so it basically works like an Orchid, except the amplified damage is dealt instantly, like in the case of Mask of Madness. The skill is not AoE oriented, but instead allows her to make quick work out of individual targets, which is what physical carries usually do.

Now, regarding Trueshot Aura, I got creative and thought of something totally unique to the game: controlling Ancient creeps. I know that the reason IceFrog didn't add an ability capable of controlling Ancients is because they, especially the ones with 2000 HP, would be imbalanced to have on a skill that can be maxed at level 7, but I think my solution, Gift of the Drow, can fix this issue.
Basically, Traxex keeps her Trueshot Aura, only this time it only affects herself and units she controls.
The active part of this skill is that she can persuade a creep without an expiration timer, just like Chen. She can only persuade one creep. That creep initially starts out with a 50% damage amplification, effectively reducing its HP by 50%, so at level 7, when you can control something like a Black Dragon, instead of tanking 2000 HP, it will only tank 1000, less than a 1100 HP regular neutral creep would (but obviously it will dead twice as much damage). In the long run, the ultimate reduces the amplified damage they take, so at level 16 they can tank with their effective 2000 HP. So they start weaker in early game, and gradually get their tankiness back. This skill is also interesting to use, since one could theoretically persuade a Black Dragon and use it as a flying ward or to farm the jungle. Obviously, Drow Ranger becomes a successful jungler and at later levels can push really well and opens up a new way of playing her.
Also note that persuaded magic immune creeps lose magic immunity, which means that they can be stunned and eat nukes, but because they are Ancients they cannot be consumed by Devour or Hand of Midas.
The persuasion of Ancients is totally doable because all Ancient creeps only have a max level of 6, while Warlock Infernals, Lone Druid's Spirit Bear, Roshan and Super Creeps have level 7 or above.

The ultimate, Extreme Conditioning, provides her with an escape mechanism that she desperately needs. She gains 0 collision and 30% MS when activated. She can still be stunned, purged, hexed and killed, but the fact that she can run through trees and over cliffs will undoubtedly save her life from time to time (note that she can still get trapped within trees, so pay attention to the duration). She is still passively provided with bonus Agility, but the number is reduced to compensate for the addition of the active part. Also, like mentioned before, the ultimate will decrease the amplified damage that the persuaded creeps take, eventually nullifying it at level 16.
I actually got the idea for this skill after seeing how Drow ran and fought in the Dota 2 trailer. She looked really cool doing it and I came up with this.


As a side note, her sight range is reduced to the standard 800 at night, since she can use creeps to scout ahead for enemies.

Remember, numbers can be changed. Focus on the concept.

Thanks for reading !
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Last edited by MR-President; 09-19-2012 at 12:13 PM.
Old 03-17-2012, 04:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

HELL NO. Traxex is a very balanced and interesting hero. The only change I would like her to have might be improving her aura, since Venge has a FAR BETTER one. Though, I guess she doesn't need a buff...


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omniknight and silencer in same team... silencer ulti stopps all spells and omniknight stops all incoming physical dmg.. both last forever.

it's still in rough stage so im not sure yet what other 3 heros fits best i guess depends on what enemy picks but need an initiator who can make sure enemy doesnt run away until godmode wears off.

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That's almost as good as the strat where you lasthit creeps and get items.
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

I like the weakening shot instead of the AoE silence. AoE silence does not help in DPS against carries at late game where it's all about carries dealing physical dmg.

But the 3th, gift, i dont know. Drow will never be same carry after that change. I mean, jungling trax? No thanks. Ofc jungle would be only one way to play her but the skill doesnt peaks at late game so i say aura remains the same.

The ultimate, me like it!
In the dota 2 trailer she is hasting in the shadows so why not, survivability should not be rejected.

GJ
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Quote:
Originally Posted by DjuguluMutkA View Post
I like the weakening shot instead of the AoE silence. AoE silence does not help in DPS against carries at late game where it's all about carries dealing physical dmg.

But the 3th, gift, i dont know. Drow will never be same carry after that change. I mean, jungling trax? No thanks. Ofc jungle would be only one way to play her but the skill doesnt peaks at late game so i say aura remains the same.

The ultimate, me like it!
In the dota 2 trailer she is hasting in the shadows so why not, survivability should not be rejected.

GJ
Hahaha, thank you. I actually got the idea for the ultimate out of the Dota 2 trailer. Glad someone noticed that. As for the third skill, I find it cool to have an Ancient that can tank 2000 HP helping out in pushing at level 16. It would be something unique to Dota.
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Wow! First of all I want to congratulate you for the idea of persuading a neutral creep. It is definately unique.... /sarcasm
Okay. Now seriously I like the idea of persuading ancients since it is "Defencee of the Ancients". It would fit. Imagine the great dragon hitting on a tower after 2min estimated playtime.
That would be freaking awesome.

BUT it would also need quite some balancing. Your concept of reducing the ancients HP is acceptable. But the numbers need more nerfs. Ah 1200 HP Dragon with >100 Attack damage and Splash is no fucking joke. I'd say remove the buff to its attack damage as it is quite enough to have an ancient fighting at your side. It doesn't need any more buffs so to speak. I am not sure what would be acceptable numbers. The idea to remove the nerfs to the creep by leveling the ultimate bit for bit is accually quite interesting but also be careful with it. with level 7 she would have the Dragon with Splash +40% Attack and only 27% damage enhancement. That's seriously enough to push 2 towers as the ancient wouldn't even "timeout".
I am not unfamiliar with the concept of pushing heroes. But even Rhasta can drop his wards at only one tower and the maybe most comparable one: Syllbear with his Spiritbear is inferior to THIS Drow at level 7. He will be superior once he has items.

But. Be. Careful. Which. Ancients. You. Wake.

Well that is enough out of me for that skill. It would be awesome but is at this point too powerful.

The ultimate change (not respecting the passive enhancement of the 3rd Skill): I like it. It is an inbuild Phaseboots and also an inbuild Spectral Dagger. But again. A cooldown of 20 Seconds and a duration of 9 seconds at lvl3 with apparently close to no Manacost (50 is nothing) is quite powerful. I do think that i would want that skill over a 5 second blink. It is nearly similiar and for the additional bonusses it adds its too powerful once again. I would just remove the Spectral Dagger part and make it just like Phase boots. That would for one make it just a mobility skill and not too powerful for well what i said before. Rebalance it and it will be fine.

I'd definately vote for it though. It is indeed awesome. Still too strong but awesome so to speak. T-Null for now.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:16 PM   #6
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

t-down

why remake traxex

when other need remake more
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

While I really don't think Traxex needs a remake, this is still a pretty good suggestion. It is really balanced and has some originality in it, I would actually like to see this as a separate hero.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

3rd skill is downright OP. Control Ancients? can we say control Roshan? or Sylla's Bear? or Infernals? you've got to be kidding me.

T-Down for now

Quote:
The persuasion of Ancients is totally doable because all Ancient creeps only have a max level of 6, while Warlock Infernals, Lone Druid's Spirit Bear, Roshan and Super Creeps have level 7 or above
I know Roshan starts now at level 30 (still the 6.73c version had him starting at a lower level I think), but the others? where's your source?

also notice how many of the ancient neutrals are actually magic immune so it wouldn't work on them anyway (though that could be fixed by making this skill be her ultimate and the one you actually intended to be her ultimate be her 3rd skill)
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

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Originally Posted by Star_Saber View Post
3rd skill is downright OP. Control Ancients? can we say control Roshan? or Sylla's Bear? or Infernals? you've got to be kidding me.

T-Down for now

I know Roshan starts now at level 30 (still the 6.73c version had him starting at a lower level I think), but the others? where's your source?

also notice how many of the ancient neutrals are actually magic immune so it wouldn't work on them anyway (though that could be fixed by making this skill be her ultimate and the one you actually intended to be her ultimate be her 3rd skill)
Well, to answer your question, the source is the Unit Statistics section under the PlayDota.com mechanics section:

http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/unitstats

As you can see, all the neutral Ancient creeps have no more than level 6. Roshan has level 30, Super Creeps have levels 10, 11 and 12, Sylla's Spirit Bear, Warlock Infernals and Pandaren Spirits have level 7.

I already stated in the notes under the suggestion that these units cannot be controlled. And taking control over magic immune units is a very simple thing to do using triggers. It doesn't even require the skill becoming the ultimate.

EDIT: removed the addition of Resistant Skin to persuaded creeps that lost magic immunity. Just realized that Ancients can't be killed by Hand of Midas or Devour and should be affected more by regular spells.
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Last edited by MR-President; 03-17-2012 at 11:42 PM.
Old 03-17-2012, 10:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Question: Is weakening shot unit-targetable (like magic missle) or ground-targetable (like shockwave or powershot)?
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Old 03-17-2012, 10:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odaik View Post
Question: Is weakening shot unit-targetable (like magic missle) or ground-targetable (like shockwave or powershot)?
It is unit-targetable. Making it AoE would be too overpowered.
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Well, tbh I think that dota needs some noob-friendly heroes (like leoric, void, and drow). But I really, REALLY liked your remake, turning her way more fun to play.

T-up
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:54 PM   #13
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

I like the weakening shot but others I don't really like...exept the icons...man those are FANTASTIC!!! You should make a suggestion at visuals cuz this set is just awesome...

The ulti could be nice too but I am unsure of the cliff climbing and tree passing...I'd say if you nerf the passive agility a bit more it would be very good. She would be less lothar dependent too...
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:25 AM   #14
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Drow albeit a little boring sometimes I thought was balanced already. I always figured she was a carry that was strong at ganks especially against casters with her silence.
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:57 AM   #15
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Comments:
Weakening Shot = Ancient Seal + Damage
Gift of the Drow = Very underpowered early levels and overpowered at level 4.
Extreme Conditioning = Ultimate with a lot of effects
Verdict:
No because

+
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

I see her great potential now. T-UP for removing the only agi ulti shit. Other skill set works fine too but i think u can make weaking shot dispel buff T-UP ALL.
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:32 AM   #17
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

So now she can't block people?
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Thank you all for feedback. I will reply to some of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame13 View Post
I like the weakening shot but others I don't really like...exept the icons...man those are FANTASTIC!!! You should make a suggestion at visuals cuz this set is just awesome...

The ulti could be nice too but I am unsure of the cliff climbing and tree passing...I'd say if you nerf the passive agility a bit more it would be very good. She would be less lothar dependent too...
Glad you liked the icons. It took me time to find some good ones and to recolor them, but I don't think they would fit as a visual suggestion for the current Drow.

I don't think the Agility bonus needs more nerfing, but if more people agree with you, it can be toned down to 7/14/21, 8/16/24 or 9/18/27. And yes, with the new escape mechanism, Lothar's is no longer needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senyu View Post
Drow albeit a little boring sometimes I thought was balanced already. I always figured she was a carry that was strong at ganks especially against casters with her silence.
While it's true that Drow is a strong and balanced late game carry, she's boring as hell. This remake suggestion is only meant to spice up her gameplay by opening more things she can do and more ways of playing her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHydroMule View Post
So now she can't block people?
Well the active part of the ultimate only lasts a maximum 7 seconds, and Drow was rarely, if not never, used to block fleeing enemy heroes. Typically someone else does the blocking while Drow pounds them with Frost Arrows from 625 range away.
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Quote:
Originally Posted by tusuksate View Post
t-down

why remake traxex

when other need remake more
Such as ?
She needs remake as soon as possible.
Don`t spread bullshit.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

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Originally Posted by Darth_Vader View Post
HELL NO. Traxex is a very balanced and interesting hero. The only change I would like her to have might be improving her aura, since Venge has a FAR BETTER one. Though, I guess she doesn't need a buff...


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Darth_Vader is right...Traxex is a very balanced and interesting hero.she doesn't need buff..


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Old 03-18-2012, 03:00 PM   #21
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Hey mate,
I didn't like the concept of the abilities at all!
Why?
There is no clear reason why you want to remake Traxex, she is good as it is, because she is a perfect character early/mid/mid-late/late game.
Removing the aura will remove some of the epicness of carrying Traxex, which result in her becoming a really weak carry that is item dependent.
PS: Traxex is meant to be an easy-to-play hero, unlike all other heroes, remember there newbies in Dota.

I liked that Weakening Shot, but it's a clever steal for Dragonus' Ancient Seal. Here is it:
Quote:
Dragonus draws a mystical rune on the enemy that amplifies all spell damage against them and snuffs out their ability to cast spells for a few seconds.
Persuading an Ancient? U CRAZY? It's like I can persude Roshan/Enemy Courier or something? (Gift Of The Drow)

The Ultimate is so Gift Of The Drow dependent, WE hate heroes like this (e.g. Luna).

The Freezing Shot doesn't syrngy with any of those (maybe Weakening Shot?) but if it does Slow + Silence + Damage Ampl. is overpowered

Overall T-Down, I appreciate your hard work.

And there is a huge question you need to answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHydroMule View Post
So now she can't block people?
Found the answer:
Quote:
Well the active part of the ultimate only lasts a maximum 7 seconds, and Drow was rarely, if not never, used to block fleeing enemy heroes. Typically someone else does the blocking while Drow pounds them with Frost Arrows from 625 range away.
There is orb-walking in the game, so yes she will be used for blocking.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:01 PM   #22
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMojoRisin View Post
Such as ?
She needs remake as soon as possible.
Don`t spread bullshit.
I use "more", if u remake this hero u can remake many hero ass well, there's no point to keep remake them because one said so when they are pretty much balanced..
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

I haven't read the whole thread, but such a simple glance gives me the idea that you intend to give Traxex more utility by sacrificing simplicity, and that is in no way would help Traxex be a better hero, or help Dota at all.

Needless to say, there should be Heroes that may not seem as interesting to intermediate to advanced players (her being a simple point hero), but Traxex is one of those heroes that a newbie can easily use (again, she's simply a right click hero), but as the player improves he will learn proper AoE targeting and Orb-Walking, which are 2 helping concepts in playing Dota. The learning curve in dota is too steep that newer players need some heroes to start practicing with, Traxex is one of those heroes.

In short, Traxex doesn't need the change. She's perfect and beautiful as she is now, don't change that fact.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

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Originally Posted by Pinopi View Post
Hey mate,
Hello.

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Originally Posted by Pinopi View Post
I didn't like the concept of the abilities at all!
OK, everyone has their own opinion.

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Originally Posted by Pinopi View Post
Why?
There is no clear reason why you want to remake Traxex, she is good as it is,
I'm proposing this alternative remake because she has a boring play style and does nothing other than right click, orbwalk and use an ocasional Silence which may or may not be effective.

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Originally Posted by Pinopi View Post
she is a perfect character early/mid/mid-late/late game.
Wrong. She has 2 underwhelming passives and a Silence skill which doesn't belong on a hard carry. Trueshot Aura is the weakest damage aura in the game and the Marksmanship Agility bonus doesn't give her that much considering her piss-poor 1.9 Agility gain while most agility hard carries have between 2.8-3.2. Multiply the difference of Agility gain by 25 and realize that
Marksmanship only provides an effective 20 Agility bonus over other carries.

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Originally Posted by Pinopi View Post
Removing the aura will remove some of the epicness of carrying Traxex, which result in her becoming a really weak carry that is item dependent.
The aura is not removed. Read Gift of the Drow's description again.
P.S. All hard carries are item dependant.

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Originally Posted by Pinopi View Post
Traxex is meant to be an easy-to-play hero, unlike all other heroes, remember there newbies in Dota.
This remake still makes her easy to play. First skill is a no-brainer, second skill is a click enemy ability, third skill is her passive aura with the benefit of clicking a creep to control it, the ultimate gives passive Agility and press the button to run fast and through trees.
And even if it was complicated, noobs still have Skeleton King, Sniper, Viper, Riki.

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I liked that Weakening Shot, but it's a clever steal for Dragonus' Ancient Seal.
And Ancient Seal is a clever steal from Orchid Malevolance. And it's still a skill more fit for a hard carry like her than Silence.

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Persuading an Ancient? U CRAZY? It's like I can
persude Roshan/Enemy Courier or something? (Gift Of The Drow)
I'll quote myself in case you missed it:

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Originally Posted by MR-President View Post
http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/unitstats

As you can see, all the neutral Ancient creeps have no more than level 6. Roshan has level 30, Super Creeps have levels 10, 11 and 12, Sylla's Spirit Bear, Warlock Infernals and Pandaren Spirits have level 7.

I already stated in the notes under the suggestion that these units cannot be controlled.
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The Ultimate is so Gift Of The Drow dependent, WE hate heroes like this (e.g. Luna).
Nope. It's the other way around. Gift is dependant of the ultimate. Luna, Shadow Fiend, Death Prophet and Syllabear have more forced synergy than this.

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Originally Posted by Pinopi View Post
The Freezing Shot doesn't syrngy with any of those (maybe Weakening Shot?) but if it does Slow + Silence + Damage Ampl. is overpowered
It synergizes with Weakening Shot (which is dispellable and only scales in late game), it synergizes with the persuaded creep being able to catch up to the target, it synergizes with the damage aura and it synergizes with the bonus Agility from the ultimate.
And it's not overpowered. It's what a carry does: deal damage. Might as well call Void overpowered.

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Overall T-Down, I appreciate your hard work.
Thanks for the reply. Hope it was worth the read.

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There is orb-walking in the game, so yes she will be used for blocking.
Explain how orb-walking with Traxex requires her to physically block a running hero with her body.





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Originally Posted by Dark Mizuki View Post
I haven't read the whole thread, but such a simple glance gives me the idea that you intend to give Traxex more utility by sacrificing simplicity, and that is in no way would help Traxex be a better hero, or help Dota at all.

Needless to say, there should be Heroes that may not seem as interesting to intermediate to advanced players (her being a simple point hero), but Traxex is one of those heroes that a newbie can easily use (again, she's simply a right click hero), but as the player improves he will learn proper AoE targeting and Orb-Walking, which are 2 helping concepts in playing Dota. The learning curve in dota is too steep that newer players need some heroes to start practicing with, Traxex is one of those heroes.

In short, Traxex doesn't need the change. She's perfect and beautiful as she is now, don't change that fact.
Luckily, I am not IceFrog. She may as well stay like she is now for many years to come. But IceFrog plans to remake heroes in 6.75, and since many people including myself feel like she is a bit boring to play, I offered this suggestion to a more dynamic Traxex. Maybe he can find something of use here.

Maybe she will suffer a remake, maybe not. In any case, I'll play her regardless, since she is one of my favorite Dota heroes.
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Last edited by MR-President; 03-18-2012 at 04:05 PM.
Old 03-18-2012, 04:27 PM   #25
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

T-up, I hate current passive Drow. This would make her much more interesting.
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:48 PM   #26
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

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Well the active part of the ultimate only lasts a maximum 7 seconds, and Drow was rarely, if not never, used to block fleeing enemy heroes. Typically someone else does the blocking while Drow pounds them with Frost Arrows from 625 range away.
Oops read that wrong assumed it was constant phase. Nice idea although I doubt she will be getting changed anytime soon
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:35 PM   #27
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

I don't think it's a bad suggestion, but I have a question, why nerf her night sight?
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:40 PM   #28
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

What about this, make gift the ultimate. Make it so it scales like this:

lvl1 gift: Controls creeps lvl 5 or lower, no damage amplification against the creep, but damage aura both for drow AND the creep.

lvl2 gift: Controls creeps lvl 6 or lower, no damage amplification against the creep, but damage aura both for drow AND the creep.

lvl3 gift: Controls ancients and creeps lvl6 or lower, no damage amplification against the creep, but damage aura both for drow AND the creep.


Why? well, an early ancient would be really powerfull, even with the nerf at his hp. With this change, drow would be able to get some useful creeps, like centaur for the stun, or alpha wolf for the command aura, for example. As the game progresses she can get ancients, that can get her dps potential lategame to the roof, not to mention that it would become quite a pushing and dps machine, which traxex is all about.

Why moving ultimate to 3rd skill? Is a escape mechanism, and moving it to third skill makes her able to escape FB attempts. Gift right now can be maxed at lvl 7, and an ancient is seriously no joke.

Hope it helps.
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:36 PM   #29
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Only now noticed that gift cooldown is only 30s. Op as hell man. Make it something around 120 or more to balance it.
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:35 PM   #30
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Again, thank you all for your feedback and suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Nipaah View Post
I don't think it's a bad suggestion, but I have a question, why nerf her night sight?
For balance, I guess. From what I can tell, her 1700 sight range at night was added so she can spot enemies coming to gank her at night ad have a chance to run to safety since she has no escape mechanism. With the addition of a persuaded creep to keep her safe by posting it in the nearby woods and with the added escape mechanism, I thought that the night vision wasn't needed anymore.


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Originally Posted by BlackDozer16 View Post
What about this, make gift the ultimate. Make it so it scales like this:

lvl1 gift: Controls creeps lvl 5 or lower, no damage amplification against the creep, but damage aura both for drow AND the creep.

lvl2 gift: Controls creeps lvl 6 or lower, no damage amplification against the creep, but damage aura both for drow AND the creep.

lvl3 gift: Controls ancients and creeps lvl6 or lower, no damage amplification against the creep, but damage aura both for drow AND the creep.


Why? well, an early ancient would be really powerfull, even with the nerf at his hp. With this change, drow would be able to get some useful creeps, like centaur for the stun, or alpha wolf for the command aura, for example. As the game progresses she can get ancients, that can get her dps potential lategame to the roof, not to mention that it would become quite a pushing and dps machine, which traxex is all about.

Why moving ultimate to 3rd skill? Is a escape mechanism, and moving it to third skill makes her able to escape FB attempts. Gift right now can be maxed at lvl 7, and an ancient is seriously no joke.

Hope it helps.
Well, it could work, however that would mean that the Agility bonus would need to be nerfed if this skill can be maxed at level 7 and I don't like it that much.
With this suggestion I tried to retain some of her old traits. I replaced the silence with an arrow that silences, her aura (which works on persuaded creeps) is still in the third skill slot and the Agility bonus is still in the ultimate slot.
I will increase the damage amplifier to creeps persuaded with Gift of the Drow to 50%. Thanks for the feedback.


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Only now noticed that gift cooldown is only 30s. Op as hell man. Make it something around 120 or more to balance it.
You have a fair point. When I put the 30 second cooldown, I used Chen's Holy Persuasion as reference, when in fact I should have looked at Syllabear's Spirit Bear, which has a 120 second cooldown. Changed the cooldown to 120 seconds.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:25 PM   #31
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

I support this suggestion. She needs an escape mechanism and something extra to make her more interesting to play. The control over Ancients is something unique to DotA and would help her out in the current pushing metagame and the Weakening Arrow is something more suitable for for her than the ladder Silence spell already used by Krobelus. The fact that it amplifies damage scales well as she farms items and carries harder.

The numbers as they are now seem pretty balanced to me.

T-UP. I'm hoping for IceFrog to remake Drow in 6.75.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:22 AM   #32
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Its an interesing suggestion, T-up
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:29 AM   #33
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

traxex has her own playstyle...
she is easy to use & understand
dont change her

but i do agree about that 2nd skill.
3 & 4 totally changes the essence of the hero
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:49 PM   #34
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

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Originally Posted by 4l3c View Post
traxex has her own playstyle...
she is easy to use & understand
dont change her

but i do agree about that 2nd skill.
3 & 4 totally changes the essence of the hero
She is also very dull and not very fun to play.

3 still has her old aura, but it only affects herself and units controlled by her.

4 still gives some permanent Agility bonus. And how is having an escape mechanism bad when in pubs she needs Lothar's to survive and in competitive she needs to be constantly protected by her team because she dies so damn easily ?

Her essence is still there, I've only added more soul to it.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:05 AM   #35
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Frost Arrows probably should be changed back, and the ultimate is definitely cooler, but the middle two skills just aren't good ideas. As was mentioned, Orchid does the same exact thing, and now Dragonus does too. There's no way a third Orchid-like spell will be implemented. And turning Drow's playstyle from easy autoattacker into microing creep controller like Chen or Enchantress will just never and shouldn't ever happen.

I agree she needs a remake, and I agree her ultimate sucks when she has low Agility gain (compared to Centaur who actually has a 2.6 gain to back up his ultimate). I hate to see this hero on my team, when I could have a hero with pushing potential/nukes (Sniper, Luna) or stuns/nukes/utility (PotM, Windrunner), who are just much better and better made ranged Agility heroes. If you want to pick her for the silence, Krobelus is almost always a better choice.

But I don't think your remake does anything good or has a chance to be implemented. Even with the ultimate, I'd rather just give her 2.6 Agility gain, and call it fine, assuming her other skills are changed.
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:00 PM   #36
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

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There's no way a third Orchid-like spell will be implemented
I disagree. There has been a time when people claimed that there will be no more 'ice-type' heroes, but then came Ancient Apparition. So long as the skill synergizes together with the others, it shouldn't be overlooked.

@MR-President
Yes, you are not Icefrog. Then again, both of us might be right or wrong. I simply side to the idea of Traxex being a hero fit for a beginner to use, and that her boring gameplay is straight-forwardly effective. You, on the other hand, suggested to scratch this idea and give her a refreshing new set of skills.

Off to skills review.

-Not changing Frost Arrows is an obvious choice; it's a balanced skill already.

-While I like Weakening shot, it's just too much number-wise, considering that you'll still be buffed by a passive 30% damage aura. 6 second silence every after 4 seconds... hmm that's a powerful clash control skill don't you agree? Albeit too powerful.

-I don't particularly like the idea behind Gift of the Drow. The dominating effect is nice and all, but it could have been another skill that would directly improve Drow's damage/utility. The added damage received by creeps is not needed in my opinion, there are several skills and attributes that already murders neutrals (longer stun duration, weaker armor type, 1 shot abilities like Infest, Enchant, Persuasion, and Quelling Blade).

-Since her collision size is removed and that she is a psuedo-flying unit now, there will be a lot of exploits to be considered for this new ability. The AGI bonus is nearly negligible at level 6, I'd really level this skill at 10-11 or 14-15-16.

-Overall, this remake will change her to a sort of an assassin type hero. She slows and silences them while she deliver high damage, and then move out. The neutral is very off-placed as you can see, you won't need blocking when you're already dealing a lot of damage. During clashes, she will silence key casters and deal as much damage as she can during Ulti's duration.
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:28 PM   #37
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Nope, Current is better and fine the way she is.

T-down all the way.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:42 PM   #38
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

@kittyjoker

So you say that you hate Drow because she has no utility skills or pushing potential, yet you hate the idea of dominating an Ancient creep that can push like crazy, tank Roshan for your team and keep hitting enemies while you slow them with Frost Arrows ?

And don't be scared of a little micro. We're not talking about a Chen level micro here, the guy has 3 creeps that need to use their skills in succesion. It's more like a Lycan level. He has two wolves to control and he doesn't require much microing. Drow only has one creep.

@Dark Mizuki

About Weakening Shot, you are right about the short cooldown. I'll give it a constant 13 second cooldown at all levels.

The role of the neutral is to help her farm (an Ancient can clear a jungle camp by itself) and most importantly to help her team in pushes, which is all the metagame is about at the moment.

Plus, another advantage is the fear factor. Noobs will panic when they see a 2000 HP ancient charging towards them with a Drow only at level 7 shooting arrows from behind it, without knowing that in fact that Ancient only has 1000 effective HP.

With the ability to persuade an Ancient, she will see more play in professional games as well as pubs.

As for the ultimate, would you really prefer 15 Agility over 10 Agility + an escape/mobility mechanism ?

Describing the Drow in my suggestion as having an assassin playstyle isn't exactly wrong, but I see her more as the ranged counterpart of Lycan.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:05 PM   #39
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

Can you remind me exactly what is wrong with Drow currently?

When I summarize your reasoning, I still don't quite see the need for change.
She's boring to play? That's your opinion. Kiting heroes with frost arrows can be quite exciting. If anything, Sniper is the boring auto-attack hero that needs to be remade.

Then you say silence doesn't belong on Drow... yet your suggestion is just a much stronger silence. So are you saying 6 full seconds of silence is not strong enough?

Her ability set may be simple, but that's part of what makes her such a solid hero. She's simple. I'm just not convinced these changes will make Drow a better hero.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:40 PM   #40
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Default Re: [REMAKE] Drow Ranger

If you look well, she will be as simple as she is now for noobs: right-click frost arrows; + damage aura; a click-silence spell; and a + agi ult. Plus, even simple as it's harder to miss the silence now, and is easier to escape from enemies due the click-run aspect of the ulti.

And will be funnier to play for more advanced players that will full use her new ultimate and gift. Dota for sure need easy-to-play heroes, but they didn't need to be boring as well
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