[Tweak] Duel (Updated 03-23-12)

[Star_Saber]

http://www.playdota.com/heroes/legio...ander#skill540

CURRENT VERSION:

Calls the targeted enemy for a duel. Both you and the enemy will be forced to attack each other and will both be unable to use items or abilities. The victor gains 10 permanent bonus damage.

- Mana cost: 75 at all levels.
- Cast range: 100 at all levels.
- Cooldown: 50s at all levels.
- Duration: 4 / 4.75 / 5.5 seconds.
- both heroes are Doomed under the effect of Duel.
- The victor gains permanent 10 damage.

PROPOSED VERSION:

Calls the targeted enemy for a duel. Both you and the enemy will be forced to attack each other and will both be unable to use items or abilities. The victor gains permanent bonus damage.

- Mana cost: 75 at all levels.
- Cast range: 100 at all levels.
- Cooldown: 50 / 35 / 20 seconds.
- Duration: 4 / 4.75 / 5.5 seconds.
- both heroes are Doomed under the effect of Duel.
- The victor gains permanent 10 / 11 / 12 damage.
- The -st command displays amount of Duels you have lost, Duels you have won, and total damage you gained by Duels you had won.

comments?

EDIT:
23/03/12 - removed Aghanim's upgrade intended to remove Doom effect on both heroes

[Foxlostinlove]

An aganims that nerfs the ultimate? nice!

[BukanManusia]

then it would not be so good for making enemy carries focus on you and not on your support (sometimes duel is used for this)
And tresdin would need items for bash, crit, whatever
T-Down, T-Up only at -st

[Star_Saber]

Originally Posted by Foxlostinlove

An aganims that nerfs the ultimate? nice!

please explain how is gaining ability to bash/crit/dodge/whatever considered a nerf? perhaps you might reconsider your definition of "nerf" again

Originally Posted by BukanManusia

then it would not be so good for making enemy carries focus on you and not on your support (sometimes duel is used for this)

here's a brilliant idea: don't do Aghanims in that case? alternatively, you might come up with bash/crit/evasion/etc of your own to Duel against a carry in more even terms?

And tresdin would need items for bash, crit, whatever

And your point is... ?

[Foxlostinlove]

Originally Posted by Star_Saber

http://www.playdota.com/heroes/legio...ander#skill540

CURRENT VERSION:



PROPOSED VERSION:


- if Tresdin has Aghanim's Scepter, the Doom effect is cancelled: both heroes can use bash, critical strike, damage block or other hardcoded passive abilities disabled during Doom.


comments?

try this one? You really are simple minded aren't you considering the fact that he has no natural passive that DOESN'T work during duel while other's have. and Enabling it to VOID/MORTRED/OR ANY HERO THAT HAS A NATURAL PASSIVE would be utterly gamebreaking(the face of tesdin that is).

Oh yeah! lets get aganims on Tesdin so than void can bash me to death during the duel that would be awesome!

[Star_Saber]

that's called "balance", try it again.

[Odaik]

Bad idea man. The gold you'll spent on aghanim, void/motred/slardar have almost finished their core. Then, while you buy bash/buriza, they will be 1 luxury ahead of you. In most cases, you will end up losing in the long run. I'm supposing that some kind of silence will still be applied, but not a doom-like one. If i'ts so, then the argument against casters is invalid.

T-down, and IMO he don't really need an agha upgrade

[silly_me]

Originally Posted by Foxlostinlove

try this one? You really are simple minded aren't you considering the fact that he has no natural passive that DOESN'T work during duel while other's have. and Enabling it to VOID/MORTRED/OR ANY HERO THAT HAS A NATURAL PASSIVE would be utterly gamebreaking(the face of tesdin that is).

Oh yeah! lets get aganims on Tesdin so than void can bash me to death during the duel that would be awesome!

It is sometimes a buff, and sometimes a nerf. Just like Wr ulti. With lifesteal she steals hp from 100% of her damage while only dealing 50/60/70%. If she picks up Scepter she will lifesteal from her reduced damage.

But sure, the ASU seems very useless.

[Star_Saber]

First you'd have to be mentally retarded to use Duel against a fullfarm full HP Void in the first place. Second, there's always the option of not doing Agha's if you don't like. The same way you don't always do Agha's on WR if you don't want faster pushes and want more lifesteal instead.

third, it doesn't mean "they're one luxury ahead of you", that only depends on yours and the enemy's farm speed, nothing less, nothing more. Nothing to do with an Agha's at all.

my Agha's improvement idea was aimed at a smart user of Duel, not a retarded idiot who just mindlessly charges Duel on the most dangerous hero of the enemy linuep. I expected you to make some serious arguments but you're wasting my time/patience instead.

[Odaik]

You clearly don't get it. There are so few situations when you will need and 4200 agha to use your 2950 basher or 5750 buriza that is not even whorth the effort of coding this upgrade. He obviously have better itens to do.

Also, I've wasted my time reading your really bad suggestion, and showing you why it's bad and unneessary. Fair enough to me.

[MrMojoRisin]

Obvious T-down.

[GodlyKha]

Lets do a line item veto.

Cooldown: T-Sideways. A cooldown scaling would be nice, but 20 seconds might be excessive. 50/40/30 would probably do it.
Aghanims: T-Down. Rofl no.
-ST: T-Up
+1/2 damage buff: T-Down.

[God_ii]

Originally Posted by Odaik

You clearly don't get it. There are so few situations when you will need and 4200 agha to use your 2950 basher or 5750 buriza that is not even whorth the effort of coding this upgrade. He obviously have better itens to do.

Also, I've wasted my time reading your really bad suggestion, and showing you why it's bad and unneessary. Fair enough to me.

qft

this scepter suggestion is obvious garbage. the only way he would every use this is if he invested gold into item in something that is normally disabled during duel, meaning this has essentially no synergy.

for the rest of the suggestion, i dont think duel needs a huge cd buff. t-down on that but the rest is ok.

[Star_Saber]

Originally Posted by Odaik

You clearly don't get it. There are so few situations when you will need and 4200 agha to use your 2950 basher or 5750 buriza that is not even whorth the effort of coding this upgrade.

says you, but you're utterly wrong, because he can actually use a 2950 gold Basher or 5750 something Buriza outside of Duels, he just doesn't get to benefit from the bash/crit during Duel if he wouldn't also farm Aghas.

He obviously have better itens to do.

what would be those better "itens" to do? in the current state of things if he wanted to buy something that still worked during Duel/Doom he'd have to buy Vlads + Deso or Skadi. That's a big limitation on his item build if he actually is farming with an eye towards his ultimate's setback. Even something as simple as Stout/PMS/Vang becomes disabled during Duel

Also, I've wasted my time reading your really bad suggestion, and showing you why it's bad and unneessary. Fair enough to me.

Fine then, disappear please I want to talk with intelligent people, not with "the rest".

Originally Posted by God_ii

this scepter suggestion is obvious garbage. the only way he would every use this is if he invested gold into item in something that is normally disabled during duel, meaning this has essentially no synergy.

wtf. Duel + bash/crit, you say if this worked, it wouldn't be synergy? Since when a skill that makes you autoattack an enemy does not have synergy with passives triggered by your autoattacks? Oh yeah right.

[juleocesar]

Shitty suggestion, T-Down. More than a nerf, as enemy aren't doomed. Better adding doom only to the target and not to Tresdin...

[Star_Saber]

Originally Posted by juleocesar

Better adding doom only to the target and not to Tresdin

that would be a surefire way to make the skill OP beyond thought.

[silly_me]

^ Honestly, no. As it is, that ASU is totally useless. No one would ever buy it. There are just way better items to get. Such as Heart, Blade Mail, Jango, Blink, Lothars, Bf, Armlet, Ac, Bkb just to mention a few. No one seem to agree with you that it is worth it.

[Star_Saber]

Originally Posted by silly_me

Honestly, no. As it is, that ASU is totally useless. No one would ever buy it.

Just because you say it's useless doesnt mean it actually is.

Too bad people here actually refuses to use their brain & see situations where doing this would fit.

[silly_me]

Originally Posted by Star_Saber

Just because you say it's useless doesnt mean it actually is.

Too bad people here actually refuses to use their brain & see situations where doing this would fit.

And you seem to be too stubborn to listen to what anyone else is saying. Anyway, I don't want a flame wars. All I am saying is that the ASU is not worth it. If you are not interested in other peoples thoughts, why make a thread in a public forum?

[Yoyo Cream]

Pretty bad suggestion T-down. Everything but the -st command is bad bad bad.