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Old 03-28-2012, 05:02 PM   #1
Ari~
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Default Lycan is Imba


Lycan Is Imba. No I didnt get pwned by a Lycan, I am the Lycan.

Lycan is one of the most imbalanced heroes in DotA as of now. Not only can he easily stomp pubs (I know this doesnít say much) but he is a top Pick/Ban in the competitive scene.

The Problem with Lycan is that his core is very very cheap. Treads+Vlads total only 3500. This wouldnít be that big of a problem BUT Lycan can quickly and efficiently farm the jungle from level 1. For an experienced jungler this core can be gotten within 7 mins (with teamwork, neutral stacking, and ofcourse getting vlads first). Even an unexperienced Lycan being ganked can pull with off at about 15mins (thatís only 233 GPM) and at that point he can 1v1 almost any hero, Roshan, and rip towers apart.
Sure if we gank him we will be fine, but HOW? He has max movement speed using shapeshift, solo ganking is dangerous because his wolves are no joke, and if you do dedicate a ganker there is an open lane thatís free to farm. And again how much of his farm are you going to stop? Lycan has to be retarded not to get his core before 20mins and even at that point he can gank, push, and kill better than most heroes.

Once he gets its BKB its truly over. Max Movement Speed, Cant be Killed, Lifesteals, and Has 2 Wolves that are stronger than many supports. He is just too damn good.
There isint even a clear counter for Lycan. You can get your ganking lineup but he can just cautiously farm, push towers at will and try to rush his BKB.

Warding his jungle is a waste imho as he can counter ward and make up that 200g a lot faster than a support. Hell with some team collaboration he can even get a support to counterward.

With smoke he can get to roshan without anyone knowing. Since we expect him in the jungle we donít even know hes missing from lane.

The fact is there is NO hero who can farm this effectively, has such a cheap core, comes online faster than any other carry, and can carry throughout the game this well. Not much of an issue for competitive as they can just ban him, but for AP pubers something has to be done.

tl;dr Lycan OP, nerf him please.
Lycan can
-Can Farm Safely
-Has a great Escape/Chase Mech
-Comes online faster than any other carry
-Pushes better than most pusher
-Can gank very well
-Has a very cheap core
-Can Carry from midgame all the way to late game and can compete with all other carries easily.
-Is OP.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:06 PM   #2
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Please tell me, how can Lycan do any of what you said with an Enchantress in his jungle?

Besides, Lycan gets easily outcarried by a handful of heroes. Just pick a N'aix for example, and come late-game no BKB is going to save Lycan.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Why do I always get a deja-vu in DC?
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Lycan is a beast, but Beastmaster could counter him.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Oh boy here we go again.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastLead View Post
Please tell me, how can Lycan do any of what you said with an Enchantress in his jungle?

Besides, Lycan gets easily outcarried by a handful of heroes. Just pick a N'aix for example, and come late-game no BKB is going to save Lycan.
Game will be over before late-game gets a chance to come.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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I do know a hero that can farm/jungle very well. His name is Ursa, has a sort of cheap core, can roshan between lvl7 and 11 if he rushes vlad's and gets maxed fury swipes, also a BKB wielder, he can kill enemy heroes very quickly with fury swipes plus enrage and I believe Ursa can at least fight head on against Lycan.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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If it's really true in pro games.

You watched too many pub stomps.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToNeS1337 View Post
I do know a hero that can farm/jungle very well. His name is Ursa, has a sort of cheap core, can roshan between lvl7 and 11 if he rushes vlad's and gets maxed fury swipes, also a BKB wielder, he can kill enemy heroes very quickly with fury swipes plus enrage and I believe Ursa can at least fight head on against Lycan.
Yeah I know that hero too, love kiting the shit out of him.

---------- Post added at 01:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoLbadWolfie View Post
If it's really true in pro games.

You watched too many pub stomps.
No I pub stomped too many times with Lycan.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #10
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Where is your Lycan score from dota2 profile then? Proof.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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so much better and more useful than any other carry or semi-carry. Doesn't need a lot of items to cause havoc. Insane pushing ability too.
Way way too good
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastLead View Post
Please tell me, how can Lycan do any of what you said with an Enchantress in his jungle?

Besides, Lycan gets easily outcarried by a handful of heroes. Just pick a N'aix for example, and come late-game no BKB is going to save Lycan.
god this again, lycan is str taht gives him potential tankines, has crit and AS buff witch gives him chance to fight against agi hard carryes in lategame and is fucking immune to slow, don't compare slowpoke enchantress to this beast

Lycan is baned in comp because pros don't want to deal with hero that can be stopped only by hexing and stunning and guess what eveyr kid knows that and goes bkb

lycan is not overpwoered but compared to same tier heroes hes more powerfull, just like furion so stop downgrading heroes that are powerfull

and btw enchantress is stronger than lycan only first 10 minutes
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Game is only over before late game if he pushes, which tons of scrub pub lycans don't do. They build all carry items and just try to gank people instead of picking up a necrobook and raxing the enemy team when they try to get his tier 1 tower.

There are plenty of counter pushers that you can pick to deal with lycan. The problem with him in competitive games is that he is retardedly overpowered when you have other pushers on the team like brood, furion, enigma, etc. Pubs don't generally pick massive push line ups so picking people with strong counter-push mid game like tinker or something works very well. Late game you auto win.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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I must agree, show me your lycan stats in dota 2 as proof.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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It's seems you're gonna be dogged with a lot of "replay or didn't happen".
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:28 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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I dont understand what they want to see? I played Lycan in DotA 2 owned the game, there is not much else to say....

Do you disagree with the fact that Lycan is Imba?
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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I agree with OP. I've been playing with my 5men team for about 6 years now, so we're kinda experienced.

Despite the fact that we were ward-blocking, ganking and checking Roshan, we lost to an enemy Lycan often (8697157, 8702098). We got MAD and my teammate started picking Lycan for the first time since like... 2 years. We friggin steamrolled these games (8845935, 8848773)

It seems obvious that Lycan is overpowered in both pubs and high-skill play.
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Last edited by Dagguh; 03-28-2012 at 05:36 PM. Reason: added Match IDs
Old 03-28-2012, 05:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari~ View Post
I dont understand what they want to see? I played Lycan in DotA 2 owned the game, there is not much else to say....

Do you disagree with the fact that Lycan is Imba?
Lycan sucks.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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They want proof cuz maybe they don't want a boy who cried wolf.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:33 PM   #20
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To be honest I think its even worse in DotA 2 because pubs actually try. This means they buy a crow and ward the runes, but thats normally as far as this goes. A lycan that gets an early crow and can see the runes (and people coming to gank him from it) has even MORE of an advantage.

He was OP in DotA 1, but the slightly better level of support play in DotA 2 just pushes him over the top.

---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:33 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie. View Post
They want proof cuz maybe they don't want a boy who cried wolf.
So the logic is that I lost with lycan and now I want him nerfed even more? If a hero is hard to play with and im losing with him wouldnt I rather he get buffed?
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:34 PM   #21
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Lycan hasn't been Imba in years and if you don't see that then you don't play enough dota.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:36 PM   #22
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari~ View Post
I dont understand what they want to see? I played Lycan in DotA 2 owned the game, there is not much else to say....

Do you disagree with the fact that Lycan is Imba?
Yep.
I don't think he's imba (maybe a bit easy to play with, but not Imba), since whenever the enemy team has a lycan, I just pick BM and he's dead meat the whole game.
He can't jungle (blocked by hawk/ward) he can't rosh (hawk keeps an eye open) and he can't even kill/get away with hult (roar) also his ulti CD (as short as it might look) is not much shorter than a agha BM roar.

Or just pick ANY hero, that can surprise him / kill him in his own jungle and kill him often in the earlygame. Ench, chen, furion come to mind. Maybe an early ganking BH too.
There are many ways to shut him down, even in an uncoordinated pub where it may be only you who cares about lycan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari~ View Post
So the logic is that I lost with lycan and now I want him nerfed even more? If a hero is hard to play with and im losing with him wouldnt I rather he get buffed?
No, but it could be the other way round. You played AGAINST lyca, lost and now you say that YOU played him, owned and want him nerfed. (although I don't care at all about this stuff, just to explain to you waht they might tihnk )
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:39 PM   #23
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastLead View Post
Please tell me, how can Lycan do any of what you said with an Enchantress in his jungle?

Besides, Lycan gets easily outcarried by a handful of heroes. Just pick a N'aix for example, and come late-game no BKB is going to save Lycan.
naix beats lycan? you're just saying that because lycan is str arent you
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:40 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchDragon View Post
Lycan hasn't been Imba in years and if you don't see that then you don't play enough dota.
Last few replays from gosugamers: http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/54457
http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/54456
http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/54455
http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/54454
http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/54453
http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/54452
http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/54450
http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/54449
http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/54448


Of the last 10 games played 8 have banned lycan, 1 has picked lycan, 1 didnt have ban information shown.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:42 PM   #25
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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pick ns, wait for the first night and roam his forest, free kills all day
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:43 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Yep.
I don't think he's imba (maybe a bit easy to play with, but not Imba), since whenever the enemy team has a lycan, I just pick BM and he's dead meat the whole game.
He can't jungle (blocked by hawk/ward) he can't rosh (hawk keeps an eye open) and he can't even kill/get away with hult (roar) also his ulti CD (as short as it might look) is not much shorter than a agha BM roar.
So what you are saying is you are pigeon-holed into picking beastmaster every game whenever a lycan is picked. In Pubs: You cannot gaurantee you get a decent beastmaster on your team (really sucks if you dont know how to play beastmaster).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
No, but it could be the other way round. You played AGAINST lyca, lost and now you say that YOU played him, owned and want him nerfed. (although I don't care at all about this stuff, just to explain to you waht they might tihnk )
My stats wont show how many times i've lost to a lycan.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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there are ways to keep him down, but the facts remain, his core is stupidly cheap and with very few items he can make fools of most heroes all thru-out the game. and then lategame he can shit on agi carries if he has close to the same amount of items as they do.



edit: pick lycan: bait bm pick, pick enigma. do you save roar for that potentially perfect enigma black hole or do you roar lycan?
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:44 PM   #28
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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Noone can deny that he had his time in the proscene (and maybe still deserves it) He IS a beast if supported well, but on the other hand, if you say team vs team, then it's a supported lycan that gets ganked and picked off very often, as the enemies aren't stupid enough to let him farm.
If it's pub vs pub, then you can easily get rid of him whne you pick the right hero.
He doesen't have much armor, has no disable (only max MS). In a pub he's only strong if NOONE cares for him.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:46 PM   #29
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if hes having trouble farming, he can just get MoC and grab some easy kills
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
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pick ns, wait for the first night and roam his forest, free kills all day
Exactly, Lycan cannot ulti at night. Oh wait, he can
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:47 PM   #31
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Guys it's Aristar I don't know why you're even making an effort.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
Noone can deny that he had his time in the proscene (and maybe still deserves it) He IS a beast if supported well, but on the other hand, if you say team vs team, then it's a supported lycan that gets ganked and picked off very often, as the enemies aren't stupid enough to let him farm.
If it's pub vs pub, then you can easily get rid of him whne you pick the right hero.
He doesen't have much armor, has no disable (only max MS). In a pub he's only strong if NOONE cares for him.
Not really. Look at recent competitive games Hes almost always banned/picked.

Fact remains you ward, his team wards he comes out better because he can farm a lot faster.


In pubs he shits on most heroes as soon as he gets his core, he gets his core ridiculously fast.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:49 PM   #33
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So what you are saying is you are pigeon-holed into picking beastmaster every game whenever a lycan is picked. In Pubs: You cannot gaurantee you get a decent beastmaster on your team (really sucks if you dont know how to play beastmaster).
Furion
Enchantress
Chen
Bountyhunter (earlygank)
ANYTHING that goes into a forest and kills a hero early on.
Huskar comes to mind
Bara
Hell I played maiden and got him to nearly no farm as well. It's just make his jungle NOT SAFE. In earlygame, he's got no armor and less HP than a SLARK!

Quote:
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My stats wont show how many times i've lost to a lycan.
Mine neither, but I know that since lycan made it into the beta I only lsot a handfull of games against him, and in none of them lycan were any form of trouble, as I kept him VERY low. It was only lost becasue the rest of them had enough teamfight power to shut us down...
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:49 PM   #34
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Guys it's Aristar I don't know why you're even making an effort.
Dark Seer got nerfed, its time lycan does too.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:50 PM   #35
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Exactly, Lycan cannot ulti at night. Oh wait, he can
yeah then u come again when his ult has 100 second cooldown
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:51 PM   #36
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despite what ive said, i honestly dont think he deserves a nerf yet.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:53 PM   #37
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Furion
Enchantress
Chen
Bountyhunter (earlygank)
ANYTHING that goes into a forest and kills a hero early on.
Huskar comes to mind
Bara
Hell I played maiden and got him to nearly no farm as well. It's just make his jungle NOT SAFE. In earlygame, he's got no armor and less HP than a SLARK!
Enchantress -> is only powerful against lycan in about the first 10mins, even then if shes offensive jungling which puts her at danger.

Chen -> Same goes for him, but i feel he's a little safer. Sadly he takes more skill to play and a coordinated team

BountyHunter -> I think everyone agrees that bounty hunter needs level 6 before he ganks, at that time lycan has his core (unless BH was solo). Even then Lycan can out push and out gank BH easily.

Huskar -> Lycan with vlads takes him down so easily its not even funny...

Bara -> is an option, but you need decent warding. Even then if lycan sees the charge icon he can ult and run away.

CM -> by levle 5 his wolves can kill her.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:54 PM   #38
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Every game i played with lycan either lost(if he was in my team) or we got him stomped and in both cases decent farmerd (vlads+bkb+stygian at 30 mins),we countered him prety easily all the time once hes bkb runs out hes prety much dead so dunno my experience is diferent than yours.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:55 PM   #39
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Guys it's Aristar I don't know why you're even making an effort.
He's like a secret jungle where midas has no cooldown to farm postcount.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:59 PM   #40
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Default Re: Lycan is Imba
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[...]He doesen't have much armor[...]
I don't want to say anyhting about this topic or Lycan in general because I don't feel like it now.

But in what world has Lycan low armor?
His starting armor may not be high, but his Agi gain is fine for a Str hero and in addition to that, because of his core he gets 5 Armor from Vlads and 6 from Medallion.

That would sum up to 7,5 armor at level 6, assuming he has Vlads at that point, but no MoC.
About 15 armor at level 11 possessing both.
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