Toss + ava or ava + toss?

[FFtournesol]

Which should be the first skill to use to apply the extra damage from ava?

[crinckle]

Any order is ok.
But if you do first ava then toss, then there is a very very small chance to do 2.25x avalanche damage (have to use both within 0.02 seconds iirc)

[Shukaku]

search is your friend, this has been discussed many times before

[Geno.]

Here you go. It's a little more complicated than you think.

[CvP]

Originally Posted by Geno.

Here you go. It's a little more complicated than you think.

OP is probably referring to benefit of using toss->ava VS ava->toss. not how to skill them.

As far as I know, if the target is within your range and you are sure you can toss him, using toss first is better.

[EebstertheGreat]

Unless you are queueing your orders, it makes no difference whether you toss first or avalanche first.

[KuroNeko]

As long as you cast them both in relatively quick succession (I believe you have to cast it within 0-.25 sec of each other, if I remember correctly) then either method will deal the same damage.

I actually remember making a topic just like this one a year or so back. This thread pops up quite often actually

Anyway, with the MECH (damage) out of the way, here are the STRATEGIC benefits:

Ava Toss:
-ava then toss will end up disabling the enemy slightly longer than toss ava
-has the potential to miss ava entirely
-ava has a longer range than toss

Toss Ava:
-you can't really miss toss, unless there's more than one unit beside you
-toss first guarantees that you'll be able to hit the ava too, for the combo damage.
-disables the enemy for a slightly shorter duration than ava toss
-toss has shorter range than ava so against a farther opponent you will have to ava toss
-might grab the wrong unit

Overall I suggest using toss-ava when you can since it's a guaranteed 100% hit on everything. However, you will usually HAVE to use Ava-Toss because enemies will run when they see you. It's unlikely that you'll actually be able to constently get within tossing range.

In my experience as Tiny, my combo will usually involve running at an enemy and throwing avalanche at them. While the avalanche is still flying and stunning them and any nearby creeps, I run to their side, away from the creeps, so that I am 100% sure I will toss my intended target.

If they are all alone, go for toss-ava-start attacking them with your normal hit.

[EebstertheGreat]

Originally Posted by KuroNeko

As long as you cast them both in relatively quick succession (I believe you have to cast it within 0-.25 sec of each other, if I remember correctly) then either method will deal the same damage.

If you cast Toss less than 0.02 seconds after Avalanche, it will do 2.25 times damage instead of the normal 2 times.

[KuroNeko]

Originally Posted by EebstertheGreat

If you cast Toss less than 0.02 seconds after Avalanche, it will do 2.25 times damage instead of the normal 2 times.

Somehow I've always considered information without any practical application not worth knowing, but I guess that would be useful for someone who'd want to increase the damage of the avalanche by .25x through an Ava-.02sec-toss script. ^^

[EebstertheGreat]

Or it could be useful for someone whose keyboard has a shift key.

[chick3nfist]

What's the maximum time interval between the two spells if you still want the x2 dmg?

[EebstertheGreat]

For the full 2x damage, it's 0.25 seconds.

[random999]

Originally Posted by EebstertheGreat

Or it could be useful for someone whose keyboard has a shift key.

Is the combo doable by shift clicking? I dont think so >.<

[aestropher]

This necro makes me sad...

Tiny has 0.001 cast frontswing and 0 backswing, so it is perfectly doable.

[EebstertheGreat]

Originally Posted by random999

Is the combo doable by shift clicking? I dont think so >.<

Of course it is. queued orders are executed in sequence (except for certain buggy abilities like Wind Walk) without delay (aside from built-in delays like backswing and reaction dealy for attacks). So Tiny will cast the second spell immediately after the first and reach cast point 0.001 seconds later.