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Old 07-18-2012, 08:43 PM   #1
Kaiman
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Default Dota 2's obnoxious matching system


I really didn't expect that freaking Garena would be a faster way to get games than playing Dota 2 through Steam would.

First you've got the idiots who search for matches but don't accept them. But the real problem here is that there is no penalty for this action. Valve ought to keep track of this just like they keep track of in-game leavers, and match those people with each other where possible. Around 60% of matches I've had selected get to 9/10 and never start because one guy is too busy jacking off to play.

And then compounding the error in the system, they send the other 9 players back into the pool to wait another 3-10 minutes to find another match. A more logical thing to do would be to keep them together - since they are already matched and have shown they are ready to play - and just find a new 10th player to add to replace the idiot.
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Uh, I don't think you understand how the queue works. You get the same outcome when the person rejects the acceptance as you would if they didn't queue altogether. You are placed back in queue where you once were, back at the very top so the moment that another player joins queue, your game is started. If the player who was going to reject the queue didn't even put themselves into queue, then you would still have to wait for that next person to join so you could start your game with a full 10 people.

Honestly though, there's nothing that can be done. You're put in queue for a reason and that's to match up 10 players before actually joining a game. A player may only have an hour for a game before they have to go somewhere and a 15 minute queue might screw them over whereas a 2 minute queue would give them enough time to play. I don't see why any player should be penalized for backing out the last viable second before ruining everyone else's fun.

When I'm put back in queue though, I only have to wait 2 minutes top. I'm not sure why you say up to 10 minutes.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

3-10 minutes even if you are in high priority pool? what server do you play on?

for me its 20 seconds at most
 
Old 07-18-2012, 10:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

I actually agree. Something screwed the servers. Takes too long and I got matched with 2 awful players 1 was my buddy and other was good. The other team had 5 good players. If I try to solo I get lucky if 1 guy on my team I good. Either it is overvaluing me (and balancing my high mm with scrubs[which is fucking bad]) or mm is truly random.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

today i had to wait 8 minute for first game 9 minute for second, maybe it is something wrong with servers cus i usualy find a match 3-4 minutes after
also i agree, people who decline or not accept should get some punishment, and even if you get into game your game still can disband because someone will not load...
 
Old 07-18-2012, 10:11 PM   #6
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Thumbs up Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiman View Post
I really didn't expect that freaking Garena would be a faster way to get games than playing Dota 2 through Steam would.

First you've got the idiots who search for matches but don't accept them. But the real problem here is that there is no penalty for this action. Valve ought to keep track of this just like they keep track of in-game leavers, and match those people with each other where possible. Around 60% of matches I've had selected get to 9/10 and never start because one guy is too busy jacking off to play.

And then compounding the error in the system, they send the other 9 players back into the pool to wait another 3-10 minutes to find another match. A more logical thing to do would be to keep them together - since they are already matched and have shown they are ready to play - and just find a new 10th player to add to replace the idiot.
actually, that is a good idea.
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commends are valves trick to put the player into the noobteams. there they can teach, lead, forgive and be friendly to the noobs
how to win with Lycan in 2k MMR
 
Old 07-18-2012, 10:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Getting into a game usually takes a long time, not sure why they have to be so long. Also, even if you get into a game there's a 90% chance that the 10th person will decline the match
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Takes up to two minutes for me, queuing for US servers.
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:33 AM   #9
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Quote:
You are placed back in queue where you once were, back at the very top so the moment that another player joins queue, your game is started.
If that's true, then the second match should take much much faster to get put together than the first. But they all take about the same amount of time.

Quote:
Honestly though, there's nothing that can be done. You're put in queue for a reason and that's to match up 10 players before actually joining a game. A player may only have an hour for a game before they have to go somewhere and a 15 minute queue might screw them over whereas a 2 minute queue would give them enough time to play. I don't see why any player should be penalized for backing out the last viable second before ruining everyone else's fun.
Then they should back out before they get a match.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:48 AM   #10
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiman View Post
I really didn't expect that freaking Garena would be a faster way to get games than playing Dota 2 through Steam would.

First you've got the idiots who search for matches but don't accept them. But the real problem here is that there is no penalty for this action. Valve ought to keep track of this just like they keep track of in-game leavers, and match those people with each other where possible. Around 60% of matches I've had selected get to 9/10 and never start because one guy is too busy jacking off to play.

And then compounding the error in the system, they send the other 9 players back into the pool to wait another 3-10 minutes to find another match. A more logical thing to do would be to keep them together - since they are already matched and have shown they are ready to play - and just find a new 10th player to add to replace the idiot.
this is exactly the way its been forever.
 
Old 08-04-2012, 09:51 AM   #11
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiman View Post
A more logical thing to do would be to keep them together - since they are already matched and have shown they are ready to play - and just find a new 10th player to add to replace the idiot.
Guess what, that's exactly how it happens.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:55 AM   #12
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiman View Post
If that's true, then the second match should take much much faster to get put together than the first. But they all take about the same amount of time.
how does valve have any control over that? if theres not enough players available to fill the slot(s) then what do you want them to do?
 
Old 08-04-2012, 10:01 AM   #13
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

just like inhouses, there are a lot more players grouped up in twos or three's than a single lone player, which makes those 9/10s quite hard to fill up.

But seeing as this is an old thread, there has been an update with a 3 min (afaik) penalty for decliners, and also shows the guilty fool among your party mates so you can rage and cuss them for the duration.
 
Old 08-04-2012, 10:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

And wait till you get to very high, a place where you need around 3-4 minutes to get a first attempt at having 10 people ready.
 
Old 08-04-2012, 10:52 AM   #15
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syaska View Post
And wait till you get to very high, a place where you need around 3-4 minutes to get a first attempt at having 10 people ready.
how do you know what "very high" is? i cant see anything that tells me what pool im in?
 
Old 08-04-2012, 10:55 AM   #16
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupster View Post
how do you know what "very high" is? i cant see anything that tells me what pool im in?
Go to the replays, use the filter to determine in which pool you are. Also, having >25 spectators from time to time or being in page 1-5 of the ongoing games is usually a good tip.
 
Old 08-04-2012, 01:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syaska View Post
Go to the replays, use the filter to determine in which pool you are. Also, having >25 spectators from time to time or being in page 1-5 of the ongoing games is usually a good tip.
oh wow thanks!
 
Old 08-04-2012, 01:54 PM   #18
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

matchmaking to me now is too serious: everyone is playing too serious, tryhards/stacks all day. lane ward spam, anyone?

you have to play like a pro and have uber good team + good team lineup + no feed to win a decent game. sometimes you have to win the game all by yourself.

in dota 1 which i remembered the most: join a host, quick game with mere seconds, everyone would just random pick, swap heroes, say gl hf and play with high skills.
Everyone can do any builds without getting flame.

Now? holy......
Games are so boring with randomers/not being in stacks, no fun chat, too serious, opponents usually know what they are doing due to them playing the game like TI2.

Tl;dr i just wanna join a really quick game and play dota with some fun. i dont want serious/high skill matchmaking everytime and wait for 5 mins.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Quote:
Originally Posted by burningsera View Post
matchmaking to me now is too serious: everyone is playing too serious, tryhards/stacks all day. lane ward spam, anyone?

you have to play like a pro and have uber good team + good team lineup + no feed to win a decent game. sometimes you have to win the game all by yourself.

in dota 1 which i remembered the most: join a host, quick game with mere seconds, everyone would just random pick, swap heroes, say gl hf and play with high skills.
Everyone can do any builds without getting flame.

Now? holy......
Games are so boring with randomers/not being in stacks, no fun chat, too serious, opponents usually know what they are doing due to them playing the game like TI2.

Tl;dr i just wanna join a really quick game and play dota with some fun. i dont want serious/high skill matchmaking everytime and wait for 5 mins.
Sounds like LoL is the game for you. (Or "Casual Mode" in HoN for that matter)
 
Old 08-04-2012, 02:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiman View Post
If that's true, then the second match should take much much faster to get put together than the first. But they all take about the same amount of time.
This is exactly how it is. Finding the first game takes the most time and if someone cancels, it only takes me about 2 minutes to find the tenth player. I would assume that the reason it takes roughly 2 minutes is because the majority of people tend to queue in small groups and when you only need 1 player, finding that single person might take a minute.

If you have 10 min re-queue times, then I would assume that you're in low-priority. As I've also stated, Valve can't do anything about re-queue times. This is a population issue. The only thing that they can do is introduce more beta-testers which they currently don't have room for.

Quote:
Then they should back out before they get a match.
Which is what they do. Your match doesn't start until everyone accepts it.
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

Quote:
Originally Posted by burningsera View Post
matchmaking to me now is too serious: everyone is playing too serious, tryhards/stacks all day. lane ward spam, anyone?

you have to play like a pro and have uber good team + good team lineup + no feed to win a decent game. sometimes you have to win the game all by yourself.

in dota 1 which i remembered the most: join a host, quick game with mere seconds, everyone would just random pick, swap heroes, say gl hf and play with high skills.
Everyone can do any builds without getting flame.

Now? holy......
Games are so boring with randomers/not being in stacks, no fun chat, too serious, opponents usually know what they are doing due to them playing the game like TI2.

Tl;dr i just wanna join a really quick game and play dota with some fun. i dont want serious/high skill matchmaking everytime and wait for 5 mins.
unless you're lucky, every single game in dota 1 is either you stomp or you get stomped
 
Old 08-04-2012, 02:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

;P, yeah that actually happened quite a lot. But its usually the agility carries that stomps games most of the time. So no problems for me there. xD
Cuz if you let them farm, trolls own the the game. xD
Some heroes actually 100% win games for me in dota1.
Looking at lycan >.>

The fun thing for me is seeing random pickers playing so good. And thats without team support/good team lineup because everyone randomed. > sometimes we knew which team have already won due to team lineup, so we decided to remake the game while having laugh.

But now in dota2, everyone is so serious. Every single game, even single draft, i can see opponents have insane good lineups.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

So your problem is that you would prefer playing with worse players instead of others on your skill level so you get to stomp people?

Also, how is this "issue" related to matchmaking? At all?
 
Old 08-04-2012, 03:37 PM   #24
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

How dare people pick decent lineups and try to play the game properly at times it ruins my fun!
 
Old 08-04-2012, 03:37 PM   #25
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Default Re: Dota 2's obnoxious matching system

I am getting really tired of explaining. But here it is one more time:
There are TWO OFFICIAL THREADS for Dota 2 MM.
Matchmaking Feedback
Provide Data for Improvement
Use them and be useful.
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